World of Warcraft patch 2.01: Before the Storm

[rh71]

^ ok so fist is basically the same dmg as a sword... but would you rather have 5% chance of an extra attack or crit ? I guess I'll be keeping a sword off-hand since there's no chance of a fast off-hand fist. Still worth it ?

 

[CKent]

Whoops, I misread that part of your post. Crit vs. extra swing, I'm not sure.

 

[BZeto]

go with the fist

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: rh71
Sinister strike is the same dmg across fist/sword/daggers given that they are all the same max dmg/speed on the weapon, correct ? I was told once that it was really only for swords... and I just found this:

Daggers tend to be somehow fast weapons, but they would be still suited for Sinister Strike wouldn't there be that multiplier issue.
blizzard patched a year ago all Instant Melee Attacks to a fixed multiplier, Daggers only recieve a 1.7 Multiplier (Normalized Attackspeed, all Daggers have 1.7 Attackspeed when doing instants) while Swords and Maces recieve 2.4 Multipliers.
That's why it sucks to do sinister strike with Daggers!

Reason I'm asking is because I want to try out the GM fist weapon... switch from 5/5 sword spec to 5/5 fist for the 5% crit instead of the chance of extra attack. I just want the highest dmg output possible in a raid. Good idea ?

SS doesn't take weapon speed into account, only damage. You want slow, high damage range mainhands for SS, assuming the same overall dps. Daggers are for stabbing. Don't bother with one of those off the wall builds, you're gimping yourself. Use a tried & true spec for maximum effectiveness.

WRONG

all instant attacks damage except hemo are calculated with a damage speed modifier of 2.4 for 1 handers 1.7 for daggers and 3.4 for 2 handers, i forget what bows were normalized to, this happened in patch 1.7

that being said with teh GM erpons specing combat swords and combat fists is nearly identicial, in terms of damage

 

[Tremulant]

Anubis is correct.

Fist spec gives an extra 5% crit, which I've heard applies to both your main hand and off hand weapons, as long as you have a fist equipped in your MH. (OH weap can be a sword)

 

[Aikouka]

I don't see how the other guy was wrong... he said the same thing, but just didn't mention that speed was normalized (for attack power bonus only, by the way) since it was mentioned in the excerpt that rh71 posted.

Personally, I prefer Sword Spec over Fist Weapon Spec, as you can always get crit, but there are very few items that give an extra chance to attack. Not to mention, both your MH and OH sword can proc the Sword Spec attack. This is why you use a faster OH sword (such as Iblis or the GM Swiftblade).

Although, Sword Spec was definitely better back in the day when it worked like the tooltip said. Although, Blizzard didn't like that, because it could proc on any sword attack, including the Sword Spec's attack itself. I remember killing a mean ol' ganker druid in Darkshire way back when in a single Sinister Strike, because sword Spec proc'd twice off one hit (once off SS and once of the Sword Spec proc).

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: rh71
Sinister strike is the same dmg across fist/sword/daggers given that they are all the same max dmg/speed on the weapon, correct ? I was told once that it was really only for swords... and I just found this:

Daggers tend to be somehow fast weapons, but they would be still suited for Sinister Strike wouldn't there be that multiplier issue.
blizzard patched a year ago all Instant Melee Attacks to a fixed multiplier, Daggers only recieve a 1.7 Multiplier (Normalized Attackspeed, all Daggers have 1.7 Attackspeed when doing instants) while Swords and Maces recieve 2.4 Multipliers.
That's why it sucks to do sinister strike with Daggers!

Reason I'm asking is because I want to try out the GM fist weapon... switch from 5/5 sword spec to 5/5 fist for the 5% crit instead of the chance of extra attack. I just want the highest dmg output possible in a raid. Good idea ?

SS doesn't take weapon speed into account, only damage. You want slow, high damage range mainhands for SS, assuming the same overall dps. Daggers are for stabbing. Don't bother with one of those off the wall builds, you're gimping yourself. Use a tried & true spec for maximum effectiveness.

WRONG

all instant attacks damage except hemo are calculated with a damage speed modifier of 2.4 for 1 handers 1.7 for daggers and 3.4 for 2 handers, i forget what bows were normalized to, this happened in patch 1.7

that being said with teh GM erpons specing combat swords and combat fists is nearly identicial, in terms of damage

We agree, maybe you just misread me.

 

[Aikouka]

Since I enjoy WoW threads to no end (hey, it's practically been a quarter of my life for the last two years 😛), let's start up a fun opinionated discussion!

When it comes to classes, we all have our complaints. Class A can beat Class B too easily, etc... but let's cut it down. Do you think any classes in the game are simply too powerful? If so, why?

I'll post my response later 😛.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Since I enjoy WoW threads to no end (hey, it's practically been a quarter of my life for the last two years 😛), let's start up a fun opinionated discussion!

When it comes to classes, we all have our complaints. Class A can beat Class B too easily, etc... but let's cut it down. Do you think any classes in the game are simply too powerful? If so, why?

I'll post my response later 😛.

Warlocks and hunters.
Luckily for me, I have a warlock 🙂

Then again, I pretty much never play these days.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Since I enjoy WoW threads to no end (hey, it's practically been a quarter of my life for the last two years 😛), let's start up a fun opinionated discussion!

When it comes to classes, we all have our complaints. Class A can beat Class B too easily, etc... but let's cut it down. Do you think any classes in the game are simply too powerful? If so, why?

I'll post my response later 😛.

Warlocks and hunters.
Luckily for me, I have a warlock 🙂

Then again, I pretty much never play these days.

Agreed. Warlocks have been overpowered, buffing them was like... 😕

Hunters could maybe have used some lovin', I won't say they were perfect. But jesus holy christ, they're gods now. I'd say they're perhaps more powerful even than warlocks, and warlocks just got buffed (again).

The developers are completely out of touch; clueless. They're like your great aunt Helga who sends you a disco record (literally, a record - not a CD) for your birthday and is about as far from reality as Michael Jackson from an 18+ woman. In another year or two, when the battlegrounds have been completely done away with, I fully expect to see a patch message along the lines of "It has come to our attention that preformed PvP teams may be tipping the battlegrounds out of balance, as such they will not be segregated from PUGs".

 

[Aikouka]

Well, one thing I'm wondering is this... they're overpowered against what?

While I've been PVPing on my rogue, I don't think I've ever lost to a warlock or hunter in 1v1. Now, if there's someone else in the mix helping somehow, it may turn the tide. Warlocks still lack armor as Demon Armor isn't that great. The only real complaint can give about Warlocks are how an Affliction specced warlock with good gear (not necessarily great gear) can kill me with DoTs alone. I wish I could use Deadly Poisons, rupture and garrote and kill someone with just those 😛.

Hunters... don't seem too bad, but I think Blizzard made one change that they probably should think twice about. Hunters have always been fairly powerful given the chance to attack. This is where my talk about not having a problem with them as a rogue comes in, they usually don't know that I'm there, so I get the drop on them "fairly" easily. Although, a good Hunter will have either Track Hidden or Track Humanoid (probably the prior), and can see me within 20 yards. So that nullifies the reasoning that this change should've gone into effect. What change? The fact that hunters can cast traps in combat.

I've literally found myself having to stunlock a Hunter, or I will be Scatter Shotted and then stuck in a Freezing Trap as SS lasts long enough to cast a trap and run off. Then, while I'm stuck, I'm on the receiving end of an Aimed Shot and then a Multi-Shot. I won't last much longer after this, and although Evasion now reduces chance for ranged to hit you as well, it doesn't do enough. The fact that a hunter should have to use a trap in combat is like me complaining that a hunter always kills me when I run at them out of stealth. In that case, I wasn't using my character the way I should have been, and because of that I died. Hunters know that a rogue is going to get up close and try to attack them, staying well inside of their ranged attack range, so keep Track Hidden up.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Well, one thing I'm wondering is this... they're overpowered against what?

While I've been PVPing on my rogue, I don't think I've ever lost to a warlock or hunter in 1v1. Now, if there's someone else in the mix helping somehow, it may turn the tide. Warlocks still lack armor as Demon Armor isn't that great. The only real complaint can give about Warlocks are how an Affliction specced warlock with good gear (not necessarily great gear) can kill me with DoTs alone. I wish I could use Deadly Poisons, rupture and garrote and kill someone with just those 😛.

Hunters... don't seem too bad, but I think Blizzard made one change that they probably should think twice about. Hunters have always been fairly powerful given the chance to attack. This is where my talk about not having a problem with them as a rogue comes in, they usually don't know that I'm there, so I get the drop on them "fairly" easily. Although, a good Hunter will have either Track Hidden or Track Humanoid (probably the prior), and can see me within 20 yards. So that nullifies the reasoning that this change should've gone into effect. What change? The fact that hunters can cast traps in combat.

I've literally found myself having to stunlock a Hunter, or I will be Scatter Shotted and then stuck in a Freezing Trap as SS lasts long enough to cast a trap and run off. Then, while I'm stuck, I'm on the receiving end of an Aimed Shot and then a Multi-Shot. I won't last much longer after this, and although Evasion now reduces chance for ranged to hit you as well, it doesn't do enough. The fact that a hunter should have to use a trap in combat is like me complaining that a hunter always kills me when I run at them out of stealth. In that case, I wasn't using my character the way I should have been, and because of that I died. Hunters know that a rogue is going to get up close and try to attack them, staying well inside of their ranged attack range, so keep Track Hidden up.

I don't have to tell you that the perfect stunlock doesn't exist; most priests and many warrs spec for +15 stun resist, orcs have 15 innate, and everyone gets 5% base. Gouge can be dodged or parried. The minute it breaks, /bye. Hunters especially have long been known to be the antirogue. Rogues were the only ones that had any hope against warlocks, but with the new 60-warrior-in-blues pet warlocks got, that's no longer the case. They really needed a stun... no, really... but I digress. Back on topic; the minute stunlock breaks, both classes have instant cast escape moves on short cooldowns with which to start the hurt. Chain fear / traps, ridiculous damage, silence, etc. I'm not saying castrate them, but they definitely need some tuning.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: CKent
I don't have to tell you that the perfect stunlock doesn't exist; most priests and many warrs spec for +15 stun resist, orcs have 15 innate, and everyone gets 5% base. Gouge can be dodged or parried. The minute it breaks, /bye. Hunters especially have long been known to be the antirogue. Rogues were the only ones that had any hope against warlocks, but with the new 60-warrior-in-blues pet warlocks got, that's no longer the case. They really needed a stun... no, really... but I digress. Back on topic; the minute stunlock breaks, both classes have instant cast escape moves on short cooldowns with which to start the hurt. Chain fear / traps, ridiculous damage, silence, etc. I'm not saying castrate them, but they definitely need some tuning.

Really, I think the only class I tend to run into problems with when it comes to trying a stunlock is a warrior. Things can go bad quite fast if your stunlock messes up. Then you have that kiting crap that everyone says is ideal... pfft, I don't agree. Although I think one of the worst things to fight can be a warrior in tanking gear. You simply have to use abilities like Rupture (has no damage mitigation) or else you'll barely hurt 'em as they dodge and parry more than a rogue dodges with Evasion :Q.

I think a lot of 'locks don't use their new pet very well. From what I can see, the pet can easily break the flow of a rogue by charging at the right time. Simply wait until the stun is about to go away and charge. The rogue is unable to stun again, giving you time to get away for the moment. I'm not sure how far you can get away and how affective it'd be using that, but it might be viable. My warlock isn't high enough for me to test these techniques. But I think simply using it as a tool to hit me with is very poor pet use. I could just pop evasion and dodge most of its attacks.

One thing to remember about fear is that it's fairly weak now when it comes to duration. All CC moves cannot last longer than 10 seconds anymore, which should include Fear. I know the Succubus' Seduce is no longer the rogue killer that it used to be (as I've had warlocks use it on me constantly and it really doesn't make much of a difference now). Supposedly, the difference in HP from level 60 to 70 is supposed to make up for the damage boosts to Warlocks, but I wonder if Blizzard forgot that the 'locks'll get more stat boosts from higher gear too 😛.

 

[CKent]

Fear's duration wasn't the issue. Look how annoying DC is and it's only 3 seconds. If the warlock can fear, cast a few dots and break you out of fear after 5 seconds with a massive shadowbolt / soulburn, fear served its purpose - and that's what they do and have been doing.

 

[pontifex]

can anyone recommend a good build for a hunter? something good for pvp and pve sicne i play on a pvp server.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: pontifex
can anyone recommend a good build for a hunter? something good for pvp and pve sicne i play on a pvp server.

If I remember right, when I was leveling my hunter, I was going to go 5/31/15 or something like that. Try a modification of that if you want Silencing Shot (I believe that's the 41-point Marks talent now).

Originally posted by: pontifex
Fear's duration wasn't the issue. Look how annoying DC is and it's only 3 seconds. If the warlock can fear, cast a few dots and break you out of fear after 5 seconds with a massive shadowbolt / soulburn, fear served its purpose - and that's what they do and have been doing.

Well, that's why we have PVP trinkets 🙂. I rarely ever get caught up in being feared for long, but if no one's targetting me, I just let myself stay feared. Might as well not waste the trinket on any old fear when I really need it. I also play a Dwarf Priest and I know how much Warlocks love our Fear Ward 😉. In fact, I'm sure a lot of Warlocks don't even know how it works. I had a 'lock in the IRC channel ask me exactly how it worked, because he thought it made us immune for a couple minutes! I think he was happy to hear that it only ate one Fear and cannot be cast in Shadowform (stupid Fear Ward being a Holy spell).

I'm kind of glad they released these talents though, I very rarely see any mage with PoM and it's so nice to not be PoM -> Poly'd or PoM -> Pyro'd. Before 21/30/0 was the thing, but now everyone thinks Dragon's Breath is godly.

Also, I only find DC annoying because you can't break it as it's not a fear. Although, I'm going to make friends with some Horde 'locks or some Blood Elf Paladins and have them Curse of Recklessness me or Seal of...Justice (I think that's the right one) and Judgement me. They both make it so you can't flee 🙂.

 

[CKent]

A 5 minute cooldown is hardly the answer... besides not every class gets the fear/charm/poly one, some get a stun/movement impairment one (warriors, shamans, not sure who else).

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: CKent
I don't have to tell you that the perfect stunlock doesn't exist; most priests and many warrs spec for +15 stun resist, orcs have 15 innate, and everyone gets 5% base. Gouge can be dodged or parried. The minute it breaks, /bye. Hunters especially have long been known to be the antirogue. Rogues were the only ones that had any hope against warlocks, but with the new 60-warrior-in-blues pet warlocks got, that's no longer the case. They really needed a stun... no, really... but I digress. Back on topic; the minute stunlock breaks, both classes have instant cast escape moves on short cooldowns with which to start the hurt. Chain fear / traps, ridiculous damage, silence, etc. I'm not saying castrate them, but they definitely need some tuning.

Really, I think the only class I tend to run into problems with when it comes to trying a stunlock is a warrior. Things can go bad quite fast if your stunlock messes up. Then you have that kiting crap that everyone says is ideal... pfft, I don't agree. Although I think one of the worst things to fight can be a warrior in tanking gear. You simply have to use abilities like Rupture (has no damage mitigation) or else you'll barely hurt 'em as they dodge and parry more than a rogue dodges with Evasion :Q.

I think a lot of 'locks don't use their new pet very well. From what I can see, the pet can easily break the flow of a rogue by charging at the right time. Simply wait until the stun is about to go away and charge. The rogue is unable to stun again, giving you time to get away for the moment. I'm not sure how far you can get away and how affective it'd be using that, but it might be viable. My warlock isn't high enough for me to test these techniques. But I think simply using it as a tool to hit me with is very poor pet use. I could just pop evasion and dodge most of its attacks.

One thing to remember about fear is that it's fairly weak now when it comes to duration. All CC moves cannot last longer than 10 seconds anymore, which should include Fear. I know the Succubus' Seduce is no longer the rogue killer that it used to be (as I've had warlocks use it on me constantly and it really doesn't make much of a difference now). Supposedly, the difference in HP from level 60 to 70 is supposed to make up for the damage boosts to Warlocks, but I wonder if Blizzard forgot that the 'locks'll get more stat boosts from higher gear too 😛.

Well, my warlock isn't very well geared, mostly pvp blues and AV epics.
Still, with my current spec(8/43/0), shadowbolts hit for ~1000, Corruption ticks for ~260, and I can take quite a beating, courtesy of Soul Link(currently up to ~6k hp counting the SL).
If I'm just running around and some rogue comes up, it can possibly get hairy if he's well geared and I don't have DC ready, or if he's just really well geared and can kill me in a matter of seconds, few are though.
If I get a DC, or the Felguard gets an intercept, giving me a fear, it's a win in 99% of the cases.

I can't really say I have any problems with any classes now, aside from hunters, but even then, I mostly get to enjoy seeing them die right after me thanks to our new and improved dots 🙂

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: Tremulant
Anubis is correct.

Fist spec gives an extra 5% crit, which I've heard applies to both your main hand and off hand weapons, as long as you have a fist equipped in your MH. (OH weap can be a sword)

no they fixed that, if you are fist spec and offhand a dagger your offhand DOES NOT get teh +5 crit bonus

dagger spec is teh same way

 

[Aikouka]

Wow, last night I've never felt so totally beat up. Although, I think part of it was my fault as I used the wrong opener and he knew I was there....

But I came into an already started AV (I hate joining AVs in progress... grr I hate missing out on the honor after waiting an hour!), and I took the short path to Icewing Bunker to avoid possible Horde on the way to Stormpike Graveyard. Well, up where Wingmaster Jetzer is (the small camp lumber mill place), there was an undead frost mage. Well, I highly doubt he was just going to let me pass. Now, I could've just stealthed on past and did what I needed... but where's the fun in that!?

So, I decided to fight him. Now, he saw me as he tried to frostbolt me, but stealth > you. Now, I think here's where I made the grave error... I opened on him (he had Ice Barrier up as well) with Ambush. I never should've opened with Ambush when he had a barrier up (especially without Improved Ambush). Maybe a Cold Blood + Ambush combination may've been better, but even then there's one issue with opening up with Ambush against a frost mage.

Here's how the scenario goes with Ambush vs Cheap Shot as an opener:

-Rogue ambushes
-Mage frost novas
-Mage Blinks
-Mage messes you up

-Rogue Cheapshots
-Rogue may get a mutilate/backstab in.
-Mage Blinks
-Mage attempts to frostbolt.

Typically also, if you position them nicely, you can make Blink incredibly ineffective, but that also relies on the mage to mess up and not pay attention to his blink path.

Well, I may've been fine, but once the Water Elemental came out, I was done for. That elemental used its AoE Frost Nova and after getting frozen in place 3 times, I had no chance to even get to the guy (now that techncially two guys were firing at me).

That AV didn't really go that well for me, as my KB😀 ratio wasn't that great (it was over 1:1, but still kinda low... I think it was 12:7 or something like that... that's what I get for ganking people in the middle of a group of Horde hehe). I've pretty much also found that being on Defense in AV is sooo much better than offense as Alliance, especially since you get the bonus honor from the Offense team's work and then all the honor from killing people, since most Horde stay on offense, so the Alliance offense doesn't run into many Horde (to get honor from).

Ohh and this will surprise just about anyone here... I went into 2 ABs yesterday... and... you better sit down for this one... won both. One was a PUG (I think) and the other had a bunch of people from one realm in it. But even then, both groups played just about the same. Now I'm a bit closer to my 25 AB tokens I need for my Grand Marshal's Dirk 🙂.

I was also a bit saddened yesterday while waiting in queue. I was sitting around the War Room in Stormwind watchin' the new episode of House waiting for AV to pop (queue time's a good 49 minutes, so that's enough time to watch House!) I saw this Dwarf shadow priest in blues and greens with anathema and the Field Marshal shoulders. Made me just want to cry after all the hard work I put in as my priest to burn out at Rank 10 (so I didn't even get a mount 🙁), especially since it took a ton of time each week to PUG up to R10 (sleep suffered quite a bit...) and now some guy in blues and greens gets an item that I could never get. It's a bit disheartening to be honest. Unfortunately, I had no chance of getting in a group on my priest after I pulled in 350,000 honor pugging one week and took standing 15... at Rank 3 😛. I caught quite a bit of flak on that one, but I think that was also the week where I did a ton of AV just to go from Neutral to Exalted in about one week.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Wow, last night I've never felt so totally beat up. Although, I think part of it was my fault as I used the wrong opener and he knew I was there....

But I came into an already started AV (I hate joining AVs in progress... grr I hate missing out on the honor after waiting an hour!), and I took the short path to Icewing Bunker to avoid possible Horde on the way to Stormpike Graveyard. Well, up where Wingmaster Jetzer is (the small camp lumber mill place), there was an undead frost mage. Well, I highly doubt he was just going to let me pass. Now, I could've just stealthed on past and did what I needed... but where's the fun in that!?

So, I decided to fight him. Now, he saw me as he tried to frostbolt me, but stealth > you. Now, I think here's where I made the grave error... I opened on him (he had Ice Barrier up as well) with Ambush. I never should've opened with Ambush when he had a barrier up (especially without Improved Ambush). Maybe a Cold Blood + Ambush combination may've been better, but even then there's one issue with opening up with Ambush against a frost mage.

Here's how the scenario goes with Ambush vs Cheap Shot as an opener:

-Rogue ambushes
-Mage frost novas
-Mage Blinks
-Mage messes you up

-Rogue Cheapshots
-Rogue may get a mutilate/backstab in.
-Mage Blinks
-Mage attempts to frostbolt.

Typically also, if you position them nicely, you can make Blink incredibly ineffective, but that also relies on the mage to mess up and not pay attention to his blink path.

Well, I may've been fine, but once the Water Elemental came out, I was done for. That elemental used its AoE Frost Nova and after getting frozen in place 3 times, I had no chance to even get to the guy (now that techncially two guys were firing at me).

That AV didn't really go that well for me, as my KB😀 ratio wasn't that great (it was over 1:1, but still kinda low... I think it was 12:7 or something like that... that's what I get for ganking people in the middle of a group of Horde hehe). I've pretty much also found that being on Defense in AV is sooo much better than offense as Alliance, especially since you get the bonus honor from the Offense team's work and then all the honor from killing people, since most Horde stay on offense, so the Alliance offense doesn't run into many Horde (to get honor from).

Ohh and this will surprise just about anyone here... I went into 2 ABs yesterday... and... you better sit down for this one... won both. One was a PUG (I think) and the other had a bunch of people from one realm in it. But even then, both groups played just about the same. Now I'm a bit closer to my 25 AB tokens I need for my Grand Marshal's Dirk 🙂.

I was also a bit saddened yesterday while waiting in queue. I was sitting around the War Room in Stormwind watchin' the new episode of House waiting for AV to pop (queue time's a good 49 minutes, so that's enough time to watch House!) I saw this Dwarf shadow priest in blues and greens with anathema and the Field Marshal shoulders. Made me just want to cry after all the hard work I put in as my priest to burn out at Rank 10 (so I didn't even get a mount 🙁), especially since it took a ton of time each week to PUG up to R10 (sleep suffered quite a bit...) and now some guy in blues and greens gets an item that I could never get. It's a bit disheartening to be honest. Unfortunately, I had no chance of getting in a group on my priest after I pulled in 350,000 honor pugging one week and took standing 15... at Rank 3 😛. I caught quite a bit of flak on that one, but I think that was also the week where I did a ton of AV just to go from Neutral to Exalted in about one week.

Yeah, it's a bit insane with everyone getting access to godly weapons... I hated honor decay, but I think a better option would have been to keep the system in place and simply get rid of decay. I just got my HWL spellblade, but I achieved rank 12 before the patch, and might have pushed for 13 except only the helm was an upgrade, and only a slight one at that - I'm an elemental (caster) shaman, the PvP armor is more for enhancement (melee) ones.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: CKent
Yeah, it's a bit insane with everyone getting access to godly weapons... I hated honor decay, but I think a better option would have been to keep the system in place and simply get rid of decay. I just got my HWL spellblade, but I achieved rank 12 before the patch, and might have pushed for 13 except only the helm was an upgrade, and only a slight one at that - I'm an elemental (caster) shaman, the PvP armor is more for enhancement (melee) ones.

Especially the fact that there's no difficulty in it. My rogue has never played in a group (I was technically in one at one point, but it was getting late, so I decided to just go to bed instead). Right now I'm only about 6-7k honor off of getting my dagger, and although it's been a decent amount of time spent doing so, it still hasn't been hard at all.

But I guess PVP has never really been hard, especially when the losers are still rewarded and even not-so-good teams can beat PUGs. I always hated it when I raided and people who hit Grand Marshal switched into PVE thinking they'd get the phat loots to fill what PVP didn't and they ended up just riding on the success that we already had.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: CKent
Yeah, it's a bit insane with everyone getting access to godly weapons... I hated honor decay, but I think a better option would have been to keep the system in place and simply get rid of decay. I just got my HWL spellblade, but I achieved rank 12 before the patch, and might have pushed for 13 except only the helm was an upgrade, and only a slight one at that - I'm an elemental (caster) shaman, the PvP armor is more for enhancement (melee) ones.

Especially the fact that there's no difficulty in it. My rogue has never played in a group (I was technically in one at one point, but it was getting late, so I decided to just go to bed instead). Right now I'm only about 6-7k honor off of getting my dagger, and although it's been a decent amount of time spent doing so, it still hasn't been hard at all.

But I guess PVP has never really been hard, especially when the losers are still rewarded and even not-so-good teams can beat PUGs. I always hated it when I raided and people who hit Grand Marshal switched into PVE thinking they'd get the phat loots to fill what PVP didn't and they ended up just riding on the success that we already had.

The change was necessary in my opinion. The gear gap between casual and hardcore players was just getting too big. In a way, PVP is going to get much harder now for the people thats used to rely on superior gear to get by in battlegrounds. With everyone simalarly equipped, the balance is going to swing back towards the players who learn how to actually play their classes and work as a team.

In any case, once everyone gets their GM/HWL stuff it'll be back to business as usual. Raid gear will continue to outclass everything else in the game, hardcore PVPers will spend all their time in the arenas, and casual players (such as myself) will whine and lament and threaten to quit but always end up coming back the minute any new content is added. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ggnl
The change was necessary in my opinion. The gear gap between casual and hardcore players was just getting too big. In a way, PVP is going to get much harder now for the people thats used to rely on superior gear to get by in battlegrounds. With everyone simalarly equipped, the balance is going to swing back towards the players who learn how to actually play their classes and work as a team.

I never found the gaps to be too severe. The worst gaps you ever found were people equipped with top-end PVE gear fighting in PVP.

Originally posted by: ggnl
In any case, once everyone gets their GM/HWL stuff it'll be back to business as usual. Raid gear will continue to outclass everything else in the game, hardcore PVPers will spend all their time in the arenas, and casual players (such as myself) will whine and lament and threaten to quit but always end up coming back the minute any new content is added. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Arena gear is supposed to be fairly equivalent to raid gear in terms of stats. Although supposedly, the tier sets will have two versions (for classes with multiple roles) from what I saw. Also, if I remember correctly, you're limited to a certain amount of ranked matches a week, so even the casual PVP'er should be able to compete well in the Arena. Also, there are substitutes, and I'm not sure if you're ranked based on your team's wins or your wins. Arena should be fun, and I have yet to try it on the current servers as I don't want to waste my time getting no honor.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: ggnl
The change was necessary in my opinion. The gear gap between casual and hardcore players was just getting too big. In a way, PVP is going to get much harder now for the people thats used to rely on superior gear to get by in battlegrounds. With everyone simalarly equipped, the balance is going to swing back towards the players who learn how to actually play their classes and work as a team.

I never found the gaps to be too severe. The worst gaps you ever found were people equipped with top-end PVE gear fighting in PVP.

Originally posted by: ggnl
In any case, once everyone gets their GM/HWL stuff it'll be back to business as usual. Raid gear will continue to outclass everything else in the game, hardcore PVPers will spend all their time in the arenas, and casual players (such as myself) will whine and lament and threaten to quit but always end up coming back the minute any new content is added. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Arena gear is supposed to be fairly equivalent to raid gear in terms of stats. Although supposedly, the tier sets will have two versions (for classes with multiple roles) from what I saw. Also, if I remember correctly, you're limited to a certain amount of ranked matches a week, so even the casual PVP'er should be able to compete well in the Arena. Also, there are substitutes, and I'm not sure if you're ranked based on your team's wins or your wins. Arena should be fun, and I have yet to try it on the current servers as I don't want to waste my time getting no honor.

Arena gear also has multiple sets (for hybrid classes at least).