World Chess Federation bows to iran

[realibrad]

I absolutely think something can be sexist and part of a culture, you really don't? Christians in the US rallying against birth control, abortion, hell even women in the workplace/military etc? Surely you can't be that partisan?

Women's rights are definitely one of the issues I fall in the left end of the spectrum. Women should be held in equal standing to men (and currently they are not), men shouldn't dictate what women do with their bodies, their place is not in the home making sandwiches raising kids, and I don't care if that's what the cultural norm is. How people can claim to be both for women's rights and also for things like the burka which is a cultural enslavement of women is beyond me.

I think you may have misread my comment. I said I do not understand why we can't say something is sexist because it's part of a culture. This situation is a culture thing and it's sexist.

 

[realibrad]

Nonsense. You're confusing liberals' support of religious freedom with supporting every action done in the name of religion (which they do not). While in the meantime, you're attacking the religious freedom of Muslims under the false pretext that you actually give a shit about women's rights.
It's ridiculous.

So how you criticize this situation? It's clearly sexist and you presumably give a shit.

 

[agent00f]

The history is irrelevant. The US had a history of mistreating blacks - from enslavement to the water fountains they were allowed to drink from - that was very much part of American culture. That didn't make the acts any less wrong.

The reason how/why things are matters, except to simpletons. To iranians, the western objectification of women as sex objects is rather wrong, and it's hard to argue it isn't; but I'm sure american conservatism has good reason to go out of its way to champion the cause of women here

Why would I boycott the US when I'm not calling for a boycott of Iran? I have said it multiple times that my main problem is how people and the org treat this. Did you read somewhere that I called for a boycott.

That said, I do call out the sexism I see from the right. Not how any of this matters. Sexism is sexism.

You're so smart.

 

[realibrad]

The reason how/why things are matters, except to simpletons. To iranians, the western objectification of women as sex objects is rather wrong, and it's hard to argue it isn't; but I'm sure american conservatism has good reason to go out of its way to champion the cause of women here

Origins do matter, but not in the context of whether or not the thing is sexist now. Accepting your premise, reaction to Western objectification might have been the start of the policy, but that does not mean that currently this is *not sexist toward women. Your argument now appears to be that because the West was bad, Iran reacted badly but we cannot blame their sexist reaction because...?

You're so smart.

Flawless argument.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Origins do matter, but not in the context of whether or not the thing is sexist now. Accepting your premise, reaction to Western objectification might have been the start of the policy, but that does not mean that currently this is sexist toward women. Your argument now appears to be that because the West was bad, Iran reacted badly but we cannot blame their sexist reaction because...?

How is this not currently sexist towards women? If I'm reading that right you think it's not just because Islamic countries don't follow western trains of thought? So back in the day since it was the norm here and in other western countries enslaving blacks based on the color of their skin wasn't really racist because that's just the cultural norm at the time? I'm trying to follow your logic here and am coming up short, but maybe I'm just misreading what you typed.

 

[realibrad]

How is this not currently sexist towards women? If I'm reading that right you think it's not just because Islamic countries don't follow western trains of thought? So back in the day since it was the norm here and in other western countries enslaving blacks based on the color of their skin wasn't really racist because that's just the cultural norm at the time? I'm trying to follow your logic here and am coming up short, but maybe I'm just misreading what you typed.

Forgot to add not. It's now been added which should clear that up.

Iran is being sexist. It does not matter why this policy started in terms of this being sexist is what I am saying. So far I believe we agree. Agent and others are trying to say that because this started as a reaction and or that the US also has sexist rules, that pointing out Iran's sexism is actually a form of xenophobia and or bigotry. I disagree and I believe you do as well.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Agreed

 

[agent00f]

Origins do matter, but not in the context of whether or not the thing is sexist now. Accepting your premise, reaction to Western objectification might have been the start of the policy, but that does not mean that currently this is *not sexist toward women. Your argument now appears to be that because the West was bad, Iran reacted badly but we cannot blame their sexist reaction because...?

Flawless argument.

Rebuffing sexist objectification is the real sexism, just like black institutions are the real racism. I'm sure you'll eventually find some professor who doesn't suck to agree with you.

 

[MongGrel]

They aren't, but liberals in the US and other weastern nations (for some strange reason) do rally around Islam and defend its practices - including the way women tend to be treated

You are seriously deluded at some level if you honestly believe that.

 

[realibrad]

You are seriously deluded at some level if you honestly believe that.

Find a person on the left who has called what Iran is doing as sexist in this thread.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You are seriously deluded at some level if you honestly believe that.

It appears to be happening in this very thread does it not? People attempting to dismiss blatant sexism as being just part of the culture or "where's your outrage over Christians?" and the like.

 

[agent00f]

It appears to be happening in this very thread does it not? People attempting to dismiss blatant sexism as being just part of the culture or "where's your outrage over Christians?" and the like.

Simpletons can't quite grasp that even from a specific group's perspective (in this case women), every rule can have pros and cons. The pros of a scarf and looser cloth reduces sexual objectification of said group, with con of restricting clothing choice of said group. Similar every social rule has these qualities, like for example regulating littering restricts choices, but has other benefits. Unfortunately some minds are too small to contain more than 1 good or bad qualification, with regrettable consequences evident above.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Simpletons can't quite grasp that even from a specific group's perspective (in this case women), every rule can have pros and cons. The pros of a scarf and looser cloth reduces sexual objectification of said group, with con of restricting clothing choice of said group. Similar every social rule has these qualities, like for example regulating littering restricts choices, but has other benefits. Unfortunately some minds are too small to contain more than 1 good or bad qualification, with regrettable consequences evident above.

Oh my god. Quoted so you can't go back and edit. This has to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read on here.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Find a person on the left who has called what Iran is doing as sexist in this thread.

It appears sexist from a Western point of view
But considering how long and hard the women of Iran fought for the right to wear them it really doesn't seem sexist to them right?

 

[UglyCasanova]

It appears sexist from a Western point of view
But considering how long and hard the women of Iran fought for the right to wear them it really doesn't seem sexist to them right?

If you ever run into one go ask a woman what she thinks, it is sexist. Stop trying to convince yourself otherwise.

 

[agent00f]

Oh my god. Quoted so you can't go back and edit. This has to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read on here.

Funny when they brag about not understanding anything.

 

[Orignal Earl]

If you ever run into one go ask a woman what she thinks, it is sexist. Stop trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Ask a Canadian woman what she thinks about this?
I have no doubt most would say it's sexist, but they wouldn't know the whole story right?
Now if I told them some man banned women from wearing them back in the '30's and women went nuts.
Most had to stay in their homes to avoid being arrested etc
The vast majority voted for the dress code
Here read about it yourself

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country#Iran

The women of Iran want this, is it still sexist?

 

[UglyCasanova]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab_by_country#Iran

The women of Iran want this, is it still sexist?

Read that, interesting. Is it still sexist? Absolutely. Do I agree with how it seems the ban took place? No. But it seems to be a mental enslavement of women by their religion and their culture, this isn't a good thing. There are women in the US that still limit themselves to the home and are subservient to their husbands and claim they "want to" - and for sure that is true, they believe that is what they want - but that desire is brought about by extreme pressures they feel from their religion and the culture they were brought up in. Does it make it right? No, absolutely not. This shouldn't be something that we are ok with.

Such a bizarre election cycle, the libs are turning conservative...

 

[agent00f]

Read that, interesting. Is it still sexist? Absolutely. Do I agree with how it seems the ban took place? No. But it seems to be a mental enslavement of women by their religion and their culture, this isn't a good thing. There are women in the US that still limit themselves to the home and are subservient to their husbands and claim they "want to" - and for sure that is true, they believe that is what they want - but that desire is brought about by extreme pressures they feel from their religion and the culture they were brought up in. Does it make it right? No, absolutely not. This shouldn't be something that we are ok with.

Such a bizarre election cycle, the libs are turning conservative...

It's so odd the more the conservative brain trust rationalize their worldview, the more minorities & such vote against them. That's why their follow up is how everyone they're the real advocates for are so dumb.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It's so odd the more the conservative brain trust rationalize their worldview, the more minorities & such vote against them. That's why their follow up is how everyone they're the real advocates for are so dumb.

I'm reading this and it doesn't really make sense. I realize that it's just a lot of gibberish trying to attack me because you've ran out of anything to add, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I'm not a conservative (what does that even mean?) for one thing. And my follow up is that everyone I'm the real advocate for is dumb? What does that mean?

 

[agent00f]

I'm reading this and it doesn't really make sense. I realize that it's just a lot of gibberish trying to attack me because you've ran out of anything to add, but I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I'm not a conservative (what does that even mean?) for one thing. And my follow up is that everyone I'm the real advocate for is dumb? What does that mean?

What you're parroting is so smart you don't need any idea what any of it means to be right.

 

[realibrad]

You are seriously deluded at some level if you honestly believe that.

It appears sexist from a Western point of view
But considering how long and hard the women of Iran fought for the right to wear them it really doesn't seem sexist to them right?

Simpletons can't quite grasp that even from a specific group's perspective (in this case women), every rule can have pros and cons. The pros of a scarf and looser cloth reduces sexual objectification of said group, with con of restricting clothing choice of said group. Similar every social rule has these qualities, like for example regulating littering restricts choices, but has other benefits. Unfortunately some minds are too small to contain more than 1 good or bad qualification, with regrettable consequences evident above.

Amazing. So its not sexist because of two reasons. First, its that women wanted this. Second, its because it brings a benefit to them.

If women wanted to do this freely, then goddamn right they should be able to wear the scarf. If you honestly believe that women want to do this, then explain why they are whipped and or thrown in jail for not wearing the hijab. If women want to wear it, then its their right as humans to do so. Your argument falls apart because they are not given a choice. This is forced upon them because they are women. That by the very definition of the word fits here. Amazing that your argument is that the right to choose is taken away because others want it and therefore its not sexism. Disgusting position.

Next argument. Some people disagree with you and they should have the right not to wear a hijab. Even assuming your premise that women not wearing it are sexually objectified, it should be the woman's right to choose. Your argument is very literally that women should not have the right to express themselves because others cannot control themselves. In your mind, because a large section of the culture feels its inappropriate then all women must not have the choice. Equality is about letting all people choose for themselves. Your argument is literally that women not having this choice based solely on the fact that they are women but its okay because the benefit is that they will be less sexually objectified. I say less, because they will still be objectified in a culture where women are forced to marry. The fact that sexism still exists all around the world is irrelevant to the fact that this situation is also sexist.

But you will no doubt deflect. Monggrel, I hope you see the situation for what it is. People are literally defending the actions of Iran as okay and not sexist. The right is falling apart for good reason. The left will not be too far behind with this shit double think.

 

[agent00f]

Amazing. So its not sexist because of two reasons. First, its that women wanted this. Second, its because it brings a benefit to them.

If women wanted to do this freely, then goddamn right they should be able to wear the scarf. If you honestly believe that women want to do this, then explain why they are whipped and or thrown in jail for not wearing the hijab. If women want to wear it, then its their right as humans to do so. Your argument falls apart because they are not given a choice. This is forced upon them because they are women. That by the very definition of the word fits here. Amazing that your argument is that the right to choose is taken away because others want it and therefore its not sexism. Disgusting position.

Next argument. Some people disagree with you and they should have the right not to wear a hijab. Even assuming your premise that women not wearing it are sexually objectified, it should be the woman's right to choose. Your argument is very literally that women should not have the right to express themselves because others cannot control themselves. In your mind, because a large section of the culture feels its inappropriate then all women must not have the choice. Equality is about letting all people choose for themselves. Your argument is literally that women not having this choice based solely on the fact that they are women but its okay because the benefit is that they will be less sexually objectified. I say less, because they will still be objectified in a culture where women are forced to marry. The fact that sexism still exists all around the world is irrelevant to the fact that this situation is also sexist.

But you will no doubt deflect. Monggrel, I hope you see the situation for what it is. People are literally defending the actions of Iran as okay and not sexist. The right is falling apart for good reason. The left will not be too far behind with this shit double think.

TIL from the brain trust that rules work even if nobody has to follow them. Liberals are so dumb they can't figure out that there'd be no need for gubmint oppressing people if separate but equal were just made voluntary.

 

[UglyCasanova]

What you're parroting is so smart you don't need any idea what any of it means to be right.

What??


Edit: nm, I don't even care. The conversation has turned ludicrous and you people are either insane, immature, or just trolls. In either case I'm done participating. Good night.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Read that, interesting. Is it still sexist? Absolutely. Do I agree with how it seems the ban took place? No. But it seems to be a mental enslavement of women by their religion and their culture, this isn't a good thing. There are women in the US that still limit themselves to the home and are subservient to their husbands and claim they "want to" - and for sure that is true, they believe that is what they want - but that desire is brought about by extreme pressures they feel from their religion and the culture they were brought up in. Does it make it right? No, absolutely not. This shouldn't be something that we are ok with.

Such a bizarre election cycle, the libs are turning conservative...

Most women I know rule their homes, even the ones in the subservient religious roles
I'm not ok with having a dress code as law for everybody, I'm not ok with a shit ton of Iranian laws

I see a lot of conservatives in this thread pretending to be libs