woman who refused c-section charged with murder *NOW WITH PIC*

[MrDudeMan]

maybe she missed the memo, but having a c-section no longer leaves huge scars on you. and yes, i would know, because my sister had her baby 2 nights ago they do a 4.5" incision and it heals as thin as 5 human hairs. it is under the beltline, you dont need a blood transfusion, and it takes about a week longer to recover from. those are all of the differences, so what this woman did is totally inexcusable...skip murder charges, put the bitch down!

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: NFS4
Here's a hypothetical for you. Let's say that in a freak case of nature, a woman is faced with two possibilities:

(1) The mother delivers the baby, the mother WILL die of complications, but the baby will most likely live. I think there's something similar this, preclampcia? Aplasticnemia? Something like that...

(2) If the mother refuses to deliver the baby, the baby will die, but the mother will live.

Wrap your little fingers around that one.

that isnt a hard decision

if the woman is going to die, then forget the baby. that is apples to oranges compared to what happened here. the woman was fine either way, but she chose to kill the baby.

edit: maybe she didnt choose to kill the baby, but she made a very bad decision because having a c-section is not nearly as bad as stupid magazines and misinformed extremists make it sound.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: blazert40
Rowland said a Caesarean would "ruin her life" and she would rather "lose one of the babies than be cut like that."


Man thats just cold.

...and her right.

This is the UNanny States of Opression, YOU have NO Rights.

Heil blazert40!!!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dxkj
Before you all go and tear on this lady, realize that she was probably a morman, and that a c-section would be against her religion to have.

So she trusted that the children would be born fine, and one wasn't. Blame the religion not her.

Absolutely Wrong. A C-section is not against or contrary to Mormonism in any way. I have no idea where you might have heard that but it is total bullsh!t.

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
It is a patients right to refuse ANY TREATMENT, EVEN LIFESAVING TREATMENT as long as they are competent. Refusing to have surgery is her choice, as badly as it turned out.

P.S. Save me the "who asked the baby if they wanted surgery" stuff, I agree it's terrible, but charging her with murder is insane.

Absolutely right. But I have been arguing for years that a patient's right to refuse medical treatment would eventually be revoked. This incident is proof.

 

[Mr N8]

Originally posted by: gistech1978

Originally posted by: MogulMonster

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: gistech1978

Originally posted by: MogulMonster

Originally posted by: gistech1978
then a miscarriage should be manslaughter.

You logic sucks. She was warned of the consequenses of carrying the babies any longer. A miscarriage is not a willful act.

doesnt matter
if i plowed someone in my car on accident, i would still get charged with manslaughter.
if a woman trips on a sidewalk falls on her stomach, it was an accident just like my running over someone example.
if an abortion is murder, miscarriage is manslaughter.
you cant have it both ways in my mind.

Uh you are well aware, most people arent charged with manslaughter in fatal accidents unless they were 1. driving recklessly, which means it wasnt an accident or 2. they were under the influence.

Auto accidents arent really accidents at all. So your analogy is quite flawed.

A common miscarriage is an act of nature, which is not preventable by the mother. A person can do everything correctly, and still have a miscarriage.

I never stated that abortion was murder, either. I stated that you can not call a miscarriage murder, because it is not a willful act. Please do not jump to conclusions about my stance if I have not stated them.

well, despite charges or not.
using my example, you will definitely face a civil wrongful death lawsuit. so you will be punished one way or another.
yes, i realize some miscarriages are natural. no fault of the woman. but if an abortion is called murder then what should a miscarriage be? negliciance? manslaughter? its either a life or it isnt.

i wasnt attacking YOU personally btw.

You analogy is wrong from the beginning, though. Stop and think about it.

if i plowed someone in my car on accident, i would still get charged with manslaughter.

If its really is an accident, no you are not charged with manslaughter. Only if you were under the influence of drugs or alcohol or if you were driving in an unsafe manner.

if a woman trips on a sidewalk falls on her stomach, it was an accident just like my running over someone example.

This is a pure accident, as is the situation above, assuming the mother isn't running into traffic or doing drugs.

There are many situational laws, and murder / manslaughter is one of them. Each situation must be taken into account by the courts, according to our laws.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dxkj
Before you all go and tear on this lady, realize that she was probably a morman, and that a c-section would be against her religion to have.

So she trusted that the children would be born fine, and one wasn't. Blame the religion not her.

Absolutely Wrong. A C-section is not against or contrary to Mormonism in any way. I have no idea where you might have heard that but it is total bullsh!t.

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
It is a patients right to refuse ANY TREATMENT, EVEN LIFESAVING TREATMENT as long as they are competent. Refusing to have surgery is her choice, as badly as it turned out.

P.S. Save me the "who asked the baby if they wanted surgery" stuff, I agree it's terrible, but charging her with murder is insane.

Absolutely right. But I have been arguing for years that a patient's right to refuse medical treatment would eventually be revoked. This incident is proof.

i would agree with you, but another human died because of her stupidity. if someone else is going to die because you dont want treatment, then i dont think it should be your choice. if you are going to die, and only you, then fine, do whatever you want.

 

[Saulbadguy]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dxkj
Before you all go and tear on this lady, realize that she was probably a morman, and that a c-section would be against her religion to have.

So she trusted that the children would be born fine, and one wasn't. Blame the religion not her.

Absolutely Wrong. A C-section is not against or contrary to Mormonism in any way. I have no idea where you might have heard that but it is total bullsh!t.

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
It is a patients right to refuse ANY TREATMENT, EVEN LIFESAVING TREATMENT as long as they are competent. Refusing to have surgery is her choice, as badly as it turned out.

P.S. Save me the "who asked the baby if they wanted surgery" stuff, I agree it's terrible, but charging her with murder is insane.

Absolutely right. But I have been arguing for years that a patient's right to refuse medical treatment would eventually be revoked. This incident is proof.

i would agree with you, but another human died because of her stupidity. if someone else is going to die because you dont want treatment, then i dont think it should be your choice. if you are going to die, and only you, then fine, do whatever you want.

What about those who cannot decide? People on life support?

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dxkj
Before you all go and tear on this lady, realize that she was probably a morman, and that a c-section would be against her religion to have.

So she trusted that the children would be born fine, and one wasn't. Blame the religion not her.

Absolutely Wrong. A C-section is not against or contrary to Mormonism in any way. I have no idea where you might have heard that but it is total bullsh!t.

Originally posted by: 911paramedic
It is a patients right to refuse ANY TREATMENT, EVEN LIFESAVING TREATMENT as long as they are competent. Refusing to have surgery is her choice, as badly as it turned out.

P.S. Save me the "who asked the baby if they wanted surgery" stuff, I agree it's terrible, but charging her with murder is insane.

Absolutely right. But I have been arguing for years that a patient's right to refuse medical treatment would eventually be revoked. This incident is proof.

i would agree with you, but another human died because of her stupidity. if someone else is going to die because you dont want treatment, then i dont think it should be your choice. if you are going to die, and only you, then fine, do whatever you want.

What about those who cannot decide? People on life support?

thats a tougher question, but if the patient can make a decision, and that decision will kill or harm someone else, then they should not be allowed to decide.

if the patient is unable to decide, i would say pull the plug if they are never coming back. what a waste of insurance money.

if i am ever on life support with a very low probability of ever coming off, i dont want to be sitting there like a bump on a log. what a waste of everyones life who is involved (family, doctors, nurses, etc.).

edit: clarity

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

i would agree with you, but another human died because of her stupidity. if someone else is going to die because you dont want treatment, then i dont think it should be your choice. if you are going to die, and only you, then fine, do whatever you want.

Safe as a C-section generally is with today's modern medicine, it still involved a risk to the mother's body (slight as it may have been, ALL surgery involves some element of risk), and the choice to take that risk was hers and hers alone. It was HER body and HER baby -- HER choice.
Plus, it would be arrogant as hell for any doctor to say with 100% certainty that even a C-section could have saved the baby. Stillborns and miscarriages unfortunately happen all the time.

Do I think she made the right decision? No.
Do I think her (or anyone else's) right to make that decision should be taken from her? No.
Do I think she should be charged with murder or any other crime? Hell no.
In case no one is noticing, the worst thing that could ever happen to a mother has already happened to her -- she lost her baby. If our society can't see that in its lynch mob zeal...

 

[joshw10]

If a doctor recommends a surgery for an elderly person that I am in charge of making decisions for, and I choose not to do the surgery, and the person dies, should I be charged with murder?

This is BS...

 

[Dulanic]

What next, what if they had to do something to her that would kill her, but allow the child to live? She kills herself the kid lives, she doesnt and she gets charged with murder? This whole thing is fvcking stupid. When we get to the point where we tell people, get this surgery or go to prison... it just shows how fvcked up our justice system is.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

i would agree with you, but another human died because of her stupidity. if someone else is going to die because you dont want treatment, then i dont think it should be your choice. if you are going to die, and only you, then fine, do whatever you want.

Safe as a C-section generally is with today's modern medicine, it still involved a risk to the mother's body (slight as it may have been, ALL surgery involves some element of risk), and the choice to take that risk was hers and hers alone. It was HER body and HER baby -- HER choice.
Plus, it would be arrogant as hell for any doctor to say with 100% certainty that even a C-section could have saved the baby. Stillborns and miscarriages unfortunately happen all the time.

Do I think she made the right decision? No.
Do I think her (or anyone else's) right to make that decision should be taken from her? No.
Do I think she should be charged with murder or any other crime? Hell no.
In case no one is noticing, the worst thing that could ever happen to a mother has already happened to her -- she lost her baby. If our society can't see that in its lynch mob zeal...

vic i understand your POV, but still, she was warned, it died, end of story. you are right, there is always a risk, but there is a risk involved with everything. are you one of those people who preaches against something because it causes cancer? well, its looking like EVERYTHING causes cancer at this point, so we should all sit in our homes and look at the paint all day.

seriously though, c-sections arent perfect, nothing is, but its better than natural birth if the baby is in danger. saying it isnt safe is like saying we shouldnt drive our cars anymore.

oh and one other thing...you are obviously mislead if you think she cared about that baby in the way you make it seem. she stated that herself...just read the statement. she doesnt want a TINY scar so her baby has to die. stupid fvking bitch.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Dulanic
What next, what if they had to do something to her that would kill her, but allow the child to live? She kills herself the kid lives, she doesnt and she gets charged with murder? This whole thing is fvcking stupid. When we get to the point where we tell people, get this surgery or go to prison... it just shows how fvcked up our justice system is.

VERY BAD COMPARISON. she was NOT in danger AT ALL. dont take this out of context. this thread is about this stupid woman who made a stupid choice and killed her baby (most likely) because of it.

if it is between mother and child, one of them WILL die FOR SURE, then leave it up to the woman. if the mother is FINE either way, then FVCK her choice, let the kid live!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

vic i understand your POV, but still, she was warned, it died, end of story. you are right, there is always a risk, but there is a risk involved with everything. are you one of those people who preaches against something because it causes cancer? well, its looking like EVERYTHING causes cancer at this point, so we should all sit in our homes and look at the paint all day.

seriously though, c-sections arent perfect, nothing is, but its better than natural birth if the baby is in danger. saying it isnt safe is like saying we shouldnt drive our cars anymore.

oh and one other thing...you are obviously mislead if you think she cared about that baby in the way you make it seem. she stated that herself...just read the statement. she doesnt want a TINY scar so her baby has to die. stupid fvking bitch.

I would say the same about you.
I never said people should not take risks. I said it should be an individual's personal choice as to whether they should take a medical risk or not. Don't change the subject with your BS and faulty logic.
You don't know what the mother said. That "statement"? All you read was hearsay in an article regarding a comment supposedly made by a nurse who said she heard that from the mother.

Who is mislead? Get a brain.

 

[Hammer]

ok she is a fvcking bitch. read the update in the original post.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

vic i understand your POV, but still, she was warned, it died, end of story. you are right, there is always a risk, but there is a risk involved with everything. are you one of those people who preaches against something because it causes cancer? well, its looking like EVERYTHING causes cancer at this point, so we should all sit in our homes and look at the paint all day.

seriously though, c-sections arent perfect, nothing is, but its better than natural birth if the baby is in danger. saying it isnt safe is like saying we shouldnt drive our cars anymore.

oh and one other thing...you are obviously mislead if you think she cared about that baby in the way you make it seem. she stated that herself...just read the statement. she doesnt want a TINY scar so her baby has to die. stupid fvking bitch.

I would say the same about you.
I never said people should not take risks. I said it should be an individual's personal choice as to whether they should take a medical risk or not. Don't change the subject with your BS and faulty logic.
You don't know what the mother said. That "statement"? All you read was hearsay in an article regarding a comment supposedly made by a nurse who said she heard that from the mother.

Who is mislead? Get a brain.

alright whatever

so you can have faulty logic and i cant have sound logic, good deal. im sorry you cant understand a simple comparison and relate it to another scenario. i will dumb it down for you next time we have a debate.

read the update and then come talk. and get brain? nice one.

 

[Spencer278]

One can only hope that she gets shanked will in jail.

 

[phatj]

Originally posted by: Staley8
but abortion is totally legal and actually promoted? I don't get it.

Who goes around promoting abortion? No one likes the idea of "terminating a fetus".

 

[DanTMWTMP]

even though i disagree w/ the mother's decision as i find her to be a dumbass, I also disagree w/ the charge for murder...

ugh..


and my mom went through TWO Csections...one for me, and one for my little bro...ugh poor mom she's only 4'11'' and barely 100some pounds.....

and although she has a scar, it's barely noticeable....(1981 me, 1984 littlerats)

 

[dquan97]

Originally posted by: Staley8
but abortion is totally legal and actually promoted? I don't get it.

It's not an abortion...instead of extracting the babies naturally, the doctors would perform surgery on her belly.

 

[Dulanic]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Dulanic
What next, what if they had to do something to her that would kill her, but allow the child to live? She kills herself the kid lives, she doesnt and she gets charged with murder? This whole thing is fvcking stupid. When we get to the point where we tell people, get this surgery or go to prison... it just shows how fvcked up our justice system is.

VERY BAD COMPARISON. she was NOT in danger AT ALL. dont take this out of context. this thread is about this stupid woman who made a stupid choice and killed her baby (most likely) because of it.

if it is between mother and child, one of them WILL die FOR SURE, then leave it up to the woman. if the mother is FINE either way, then FVCK her choice, let the kid live!

No it's not a very bad compairison legally it is the same thing, both cases she would have to get surgery or the baby would die. And you can NOT say she was not in danger AT ALL, there can be complications with a C-Section.... at what point do we say it is too much risk to the mother? If she has a 5% chance of dying, she goes to jail but if its a 50% chance she doesnt? I don't agree with what she did, but where do we draw the line? What if they say she would have a 49% chance of dying then she should go to jail? This is why I don't agree with this crap.

 

[Ameesh]

christian scientist have this problem, the difference they dont goto hospitals, cause doctors are the spawn of satan. but they dont get charged with murder.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
maybe she missed the memo, but having a c-section no longer leaves huge scars on you. and yes, i would know, because my sister had her baby 2 nights ago they do a 4.5" incision and it heals as thin as 5 human hairs. it is under the beltline, you dont need a blood transfusion, and it takes about a week longer to recover from. those are all of the differences, so what this woman did is totally inexcusable...skip murder charges, put the bitch down!

you forget that they are in utah and utah is full of backward yokels

 

[AFB]

Originally posted by: Ameesh

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
maybe she missed the memo, but having a c-section no longer leaves huge scars on you. and yes, i would know, because my sister had her baby 2 nights ago they do a 4.5" incision and it heals as thin as 5 human hairs. it is under the beltline, you dont need a blood transfusion, and it takes about a week longer to recover from. those are all of the differences, so what this woman did is totally inexcusable...skip murder charges, put the bitch down!

you forget that they are in utah and utah is full of backward yokels

100% true.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: blazert40
Rowland said a Caesarean would "ruin her life" and she would rather "lose one of the babies than be cut like that."


Man thats just cold.

...and her right.

This is the UNanny States of Opression, YOU have NO Rights.

Heil blazert40!!!

he just said that it was cold, not that she didnt have the right to refuse the medical attention, stop overreacting you douche.