Windows Vista (aka Longhorn) to Require Monitor-Based DRM

[stash]

I haven't read this entire thread, but many of you are directing your anger in the wrong direction. The truth is, ANY OS that wants to be able to play premium content in the future will need to implement OPM. This is because the content providers will require it. When Apple decides to support Blu-Ray or whatever other premium media, they will be REQUIRED to have a secure path for the media to pass over. If you want to watch this sort of content on Linux, it will need to implement HDMI over DVI, etc.

The content providers do not want another CSS debacle. I'm not saying whatever secure implementation they come up with not be cracked, but they are going to try a lot harder than they did with DVD.

I'm not thrilled about this, don't get me wrong. However, the demand for this content is there, in a big way. It would be a huge error, IMO, for Microsoft to not meet this demand, just as it would be if Apple didn't meet the demand. And unfortunately, in order to meet this demand, Microsoft and Apple need to play nice with the content providers.

 

[Burrbaby]

Originally posted by: linkgoron
Sorry for the n00b question but what exactly is a monitor based DRM?

Its possible to bypass copyright protection by recording the feed directly out of the VGA port. MS is trying to help Sony/MGM/Universal/FOX by forcing your computer to only output high resolution copyrighted content to verified outputs/monitors (monitor based digital rights management).

Has anyone heard if there would possibly be some downloadable firmware updates for monitors coming at some point? It really shouldn't be too hard to prove that we're outputing to legit sources.

 

[Looney]

You seem to fall into the catagory of objector who does so "merely because you won't be able to watch your favorite movies unless you buy a new monitor."

First, i don't watch movies on my monitor.
Second, i'm not an 'objector' at all.

This is a very shallow way of looking at the problem. So deepen your view---all of you---and read up on WTF is going down. Like I said, it's a roll of tinfoil, but you need to know where they plan on taking you today, and you are IMO derelict in your social duty if you choose to proceed with ignorance.

LOL please, all your whining and crying isn't going to change anything. Media protections have been in place since vcr's with their macrovision protections.

The differences between a monitor and a TV are reducing. As little as 5 years ago, we were limited to 480i. Now plasmas, lcd tvs, and HD TVs with 720p are getting more common. Within 5 years, we'll probably be seeing 1080p. I really don't think it's too far off when we'll have a box that's between a PC and console that can play games, have internet access, has a terabyte for PVR functions and storage for movies and music, equipped with a webcam that can do voip videochat, and function as something to do email and browse the internet on the 'TV'.

I think MS sees this too, and wants to create a platform that developers will want to use... rather than let somebody else create one.

 

[Looney]

OK, Chicken Little, so the sky actually is falling this time. What are you going to do? Panic? Give up? Build yourself a bomb shelter? You know, some of us are trying to hold the sky up, or just maybe---if we're lucky enough---put it back in its original place. Why not help us and save yourself in the process?

LOL somebody is a little grandioso. Are you bringing the fight to television sets manufacturers too? What about CPU, GPUs, and DVD manufacturers?

I would not be so vehement about this, except that everybody conveniently keeps on forgetting that circumvention of protection mechanisms, for any reason, is illegal. Why are you pretending that it's not? Are you somehow under the spurrious impression that people have never been (wrongly) prosecuted? Or is because you believe you are merely "small fish," beyond the care of the lawyerly types? If so, a coward are you.

If you possess the media legitimately, then why do you need to circumvent it?

For once, would you stop thinking about your immediate desires and start thinking about your long-term prospects? Come on, you all have higher brain functionality (in theory); try using it for once.

Ah yes, insulting people so they'll join your side, that's a great way to do it. :thumbsup:

 

[MDme]

This will not have the kind of impact that MS and the MPAA want. Why you may ask? Well Since the "protected content" has to make use of the DRM features of the OS and the Hardware, what will simply happen is that pirates will simply use DRM enabled hardware and software, crack it, and re-encode the media to a "non-protected" state. these "non protected content" will then continue to spread via BT and other filesharing networks.

This is already happening to a certain degree (total recorder for example).

This will ultimately result in more people adopting it (pirated stuff) and less people buying the original ones since people with current HD displays which do not have HDCP hardware will not buy media that they can't watch. It's ironic that this DRM crap results in people not being able to watch original content which they legally bought simply because they do not have a monitor that allows them too (even if the monitor is capable of doing so).

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Wag
They'd rather us all switch to Linux.

Linux will support this DRM too.

BTW, I see one potential solution to this...an external box that can recieve the HDMI signal, and then outputs it in component/DVI/VGA. Like how most current TVs need an external box to recieve HDTV signals.

 

[ProviaFan]

Linux has supported direct rendering for a long time...

Other than something about Torvalds saying that Linux can have DRM, I couldn't find anything with a quick search on google.

Either way, if Linux does enable some DRM technology, I still have the option to turn it off and/or remove it. :thumbsup:

 

[Bowsky]

I would think it to be very unlikely that there would be a legal box to convert an HDMI signal into component/DVI/VGA. The whole reason they want to make the move to HDMI and HDCP is to plug the 'analog hole' (component, VGA, and even though it?s not actually analog DVI). It would be very unlikely that after going through all this trouble to plug the hole that they would allow it to be reopened again with such a device.

Also under the DMCA such a device would be deemed illegal since it strips the media of its copy protection.

 

[bersl2]

Looney:

In short: DRM sends me off the deep end; it clouds judgement with anger. You just witnessed evidence of that.

 

[Velk]

Originally posted by: Looney

If you possess the media legitimately, then why do you need to circumvent it?

Did you read the article ?

That's not a rhetorical question - the point of the article is the impact that this has on existing high end monitors.

You need to circumvent the protection so that you don't need to bin your 2405FP and buy a new one with HDMI on it, solely to make the MPAA happy.

It's the same gripe that all the people with component HDTVs have.

 

[niggles]

I don't know how I am going to get around this because I simply can not afford a new OS on top of a new PC at the same time. I'm going to have to live with XP until I win a lottery or something. With any luck Microsoft can have me using an abacus before the end of the decade.

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: niggles
I don't know how I am going to get around this because I simply can not afford a new OS on top of a new PC at the same time. I'm going to have to live with XP until I win a lottery or something. With any luck Microsoft can have me using an abacus before the end of the decade.

Remind me the point of Longhorn with losing WinFS and other major features?

Appears to be a pretty (ugly) version of XP to me.

I am not excited about this OS at all.. I dont see it as the future in any way shape or form.
XP I was excited about, because it finally converged the NT and 9X lines which simplified many things for business and brought more stability on mass scale. Even tho 2000 did the same thing it didnt have MS's blessing in many ways.

Longhorn? Forget it, its dumb.
A graphical upgrade to further strip resources of your PC and leave less for games and apps.


OSs should advance in areas of resource management, ie. get smaller.. not more bloated with pretty graphics.
Not that the OS doesnt look like dog **** anyway.

 

[Fox5]

How do you know Longhorn won't advance in resource management and what not? Apple continually puts out new OS versions that get better in resource management and are less bloated fairly often.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: Fox5
How do you know Longhorn won't advance in resource management and what not? Apple continually puts out new OS versions that get better in resource management and are less bloated fairly often.

that's just not possible for MS. They tend to double the needed memory to run a OS every reincarnation.
Win95 ran fine on 16mb
Win98 ran fine on 32mb
WinMe ran with 64mb
WixXP ran with 128mb
Longhorm would probably require soethingl ike 512mb since Win XP with all these patches now takes up a solid 200 some mb in my ram without anything else bt my antivirus/firewall suite and Daemon, Shareaza, NV settings and Asus Smartdoctor. Hell windows explorer takes up a good 30mb.

edit, just checked again, it's using 546mb now. I run those above programs, firefox, Winxp all updated and Longhorn Inspirat theme(it's a winxp shell theme, dosent use some crapp resource hogging windows blinds or whatnot.

 

[blckgrffn]

The whole thing is out of whack, my parents 52" doesn't have HDMI, they bought it at thanksgiving last year! WTF? I guess I will be buying them a dongle, illegal or not, no way is that investment going to be wasted. I thought that a while ago the supreme court of somewhere threw out this HDMI bullsh*t, but evidently I am very wrong....

Nat

 

[dawks]

I didnt read every post 100%, but its clear some points need to be addressed.. one is that this will be tied to Microsoft's Digital Rights Management (DRM) for content encoded with WM9. It will not affect your current DVD's, your MPEG2 Transport Stream HD-DVD's.. your CDA, SCDA, Quicktime5/6/7 or Real.. it may affect future releases of Quicktime/Real content if they choose to use it.. and if they want to get into the Movie/HD-TV content distribution arena, they will most likely have to (in order to get movie studios to sign on) use this system or one similar to it.

It will be fine to switch to linux, but if you want to enjoy new content (possibly from online movie stores), you may have to, at the least, use a linux implementation of this, or avoid the content entirely.

Microsoft is only doing this because the movie studios want it. If they dont do it, someone else will... iTunes from Apple anyone?

I noticed it mentioned most HD-TV's already support this, so that will be pretty good, considering if I were to download HD-Movies from the net, I'd rather watch them on my big HDTV, then my smaller computer. Thats where the Xbox 360 will come in handy.. Download the video to my PC, fireup the Xbox360, and stream it out to the bigscreen.

Again, you shouldnt worry too much about this unless you want to start buying HD-DVD's from online movie stores in the future.. and realized, this isnt so much a microsoft or a longhorn thing, its a movie industry creation. Microsoft is just making sure they will get a cut of the profits.. otherwise someone else will. Its only a matter of time.

 

[blckgrffn]

HDMI TV's just came out, all the other HDTV's, ever, don't have it. Why would we upgrade to this? Ridiculous... :|

 

[niggles]

Originally posted by: southpawuni
Appears to be a pretty (ugly) version of XP to me.

I am not excited about this OS at all.. I dont see it as the future in any way shape or form.
XP I was excited about, because it finally converged the NT and 9X lines which simplified many things for business and brought more stability on mass scale. .

The only thing that I saw it would be good for is 64 bit gaming, I was actually excited that we were finally going to make the mainstream leap, but apparantly only the chosen few will be able to afford this which means it won't be mainstream for quite some time. Because of this I doubt there will be much in the way of games coming out for it... I'm still waiting for the shift to DVD games over CD games. It's long, long overdue, but I still have to load up 5 or 6 CDs because some guy out in the swamps of Kentucky is still using a CD drive. There's a nice low rent upgrade that is thankfully being forced through, and the gaming industry is still operating at lowest common denomenator. Anyway, I will not be going illegal on a dongle, or anything else for that matter, I simply will not buy until I can afford an upgrade in 3 or 4 years (just built a new desktop last year, and just bought a laptop last month). Even then I am not sure I will be going to the route MS is.

 

[The Green Bean]

that is retarted!!!

 

[doornail]

Originally posted by: Busithoth
I remember hearing about XP's requirements for users to dial-in to MS to verify it's a valid copy.
When I heard that, I swore to the gods I'd stick with 2000.

I guess it's time to repeat that Mantra (though, honestly, XP is pretty damned good, IMO)

Same thing for me. I refuse to use product activation. I keep a Windows 2K partition to play some games (although it shrinks everytime I juggle resources) and have moved my *real* desktop to Fedora Core.

 

[bersl2]

Originally posted by: blckgrffn
The whole thing is out of whack, my parents 52" doesn't have HDMI, they bought it at thanksgiving last year! WTF? I guess I will be buying them a dongle, illegal or not, no way is that investment going to be wasted. I thought that a while ago the supreme court of somewhere threw out this HDMI bullsh*t, but evidently I am very wrong....

Nat

That was the broadcast flag that got thrown out, and it was only because the FCC has not yet been granted the authority to do so by Congress.

 

[imported_mitch2891]

Originally posted by: Bowsky
I would think it to be very unlikely that there would be a legal box to convert an HDMI signal into component/DVI/VGA. The whole reason they want to make the move to HDMI and HDCP is to plug the 'analog hole' (component, VGA, and even though it?s not actually analog DVI). It would be very unlikely that after going through all this trouble to plug the hole that they would allow it to be reopened again with such a device.

Also under the DMCA such a device would be deemed illegal since it strips the media of its copy protection.

There is a box but it is not legal in the us and it is about $200 - $300 depending on the model.

Linky

 

[Keeir]

Question. Do any computer monitors ever exist with HDCP inputs?

 

[blckgrffn]

No. Damn that sucks, I bet that Direct TV and Comcast will still require HDCP for premium movie channels, etc through the set top box... complete and utter BS, way to stick it to the consumer...

Nat

 

[imported_Rampage]

Originally posted by: niggles

Originally posted by: southpawuni
Appears to be a pretty (ugly) version of XP to me.

I am not excited about this OS at all.. I dont see it as the future in any way shape or form.
XP I was excited about, because it finally converged the NT and 9X lines which simplified many things for business and brought more stability on mass scale. .

The only thing that I saw it would be good for is 64 bit gaming, I was actually excited that we were finally going to make the mainstream leap, but apparantly only the chosen few will be able to afford this which means it won't be mainstream for quite some time. Because of this I doubt there will be much in the way of games coming out for it... I'm still waiting for the shift to DVD games over CD games. It's long, long overdue, but I still have to load up 5 or 6 CDs because some guy out in the swamps of Kentucky is still using a CD drive. There's a nice low rent upgrade that is thankfully being forced through, and the gaming industry is still operating at lowest common denomenator. Anyway, I will not be going illegal on a dongle, or anything else for that matter, I simply will not buy until I can afford an upgrade in 3 or 4 years (just built a new desktop last year, and just bought a laptop last month). Even then I am not sure I will be going to the route MS is.

64bit gaming can be faster due to the added registers inherent to the AMD64 design, not because of the actual processing of 64bits instead of 32.

We'll be getting larger gains out of dual core when games take advantage of that, than from moving to 64bit. Look at the disappointing 64bit farcry.

Microsofts time is done, they peaked with XP.
The time is ripe for OSX or another mainstream competitor to move in.

I wont be getting Longhorn simply because I see no benefits, other than MS keeping the latest DX versions off of XP. I'm getting older, having less time for games and XP will still run them anyway.

Usually Im always looking to the future, I was one of the first to adopt XP when everyone was bad mouthing it, and I was one of the first to use Service Pack 2 when multitudes were saying dont do it.. I'm always looking for the newest

but I see nearly absolutely nothing in Longhorn that is compelling at all. No new file system, just a new windows media player (wow) and some fancy graphics that slow down my rig.

The upgrades I'm seeing in Longhorn should be free upgrades to users of XP they are that useless.. I wouldnt even install most of them for free.