Windows Vista (aka Longhorn) to Require Monitor-Based DRM

[imported_BikeDude]

Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
I'd be willing to bet monopoly money that MS will have the Retail version with this new requirement and the Corporate version without it.

No, I'm pretty sure you'll see the opposite. Most people don't even realise that Windows Server contains the same features as Windows XP. The difference is simply which features are disabled by default or not. (apart from the animated dog in "Search files" who seems to be completely missing)

But what is the point of not supporting HDCP? With XP you won't be able to play HDCP content, why wouldn't Microsoft want to change that with Longhorn? (even the corporate version?)

Or do you believe XP can somehow bypass HDCP where Longhorn won't? (I think we'll be able to bypass this nonsense eventually, but I doubt Longhorn will prove more difficult than XP in this regard -- which of course remains to be seen, but atleast with Longhorn you've reached first base where you could atleast get some access to the content)

 

[SGtheArtist]

BikeDude,

I was thinking like how WXP has the activation for their Retail product & no activation for their Corporate product.

You have a good point though they like to create the full product & then start disabling features for the lesser versions to be released.

 

[MBrown]

Is it worth waiting to buy an LCD with DRM?

 

[SGtheArtist]

I don't think so, I believe the adoption of Windows Vista will not be to the scale that it was for Windows XP.

Windows XP brought over not only the Windows NT & W2K businesses but also the entire home users with Windows 98, SE & ME.

I bet Windows XP will have a good 2-3 life after Vista during which the developers will start to shift to Vista.

 

[lifeguard1999]

Who says you have to upgrade to Viruses, Infections, Spyware, Trojans and Adware ... a.k.a. VISTA? Keep XP instead.

 

[jkresh]

Microsoft tried something like this before with first generation MCE machines (ie cant burn recording to dvd or if you can they can only be played in your machine...) that disapeared quickly. Microsoft is doing this to appease the MPAA but i would storngly bet that there will be a massive outlash and by the time vista goes retial this "feature" will be removed, as having just bough a 2405 (got it in today, nice upgrade over my 1600sw) i would be quite displeased if i cant play blue-ray/hd-dvd on it next year.

 

[imported_BikeDude]

Originally posted by: SGtheArtist
I don't think so, I believe the adoption of Windows Vista will not be to the scale that it was for Windows XP.

DRM has nothing to do with the deployment of Windows Vista. If you stick with WinXP and hook up a monitor (HDCP compliant or not), I suspect you'll get a black screen or reduced content when attempting to watch HDCP content (or what would be the point of HDCP if you could simply play the content using older gear?). So, your *only* option will be a HDCP compliant monitor and a HDCP compliant OS. (or find unprotected content somehow)

Again: I don't think it is fair to be outraged at MS. We should shake our fists at the content providers who plan to use HDCP. Put your thinking caps on folks!

 

[gsellis]

I started reading this thread when it started, but soon was ignoring it as there is a bit of misinformation going around. MS will support the APIs and implementation of the APIs. But, it takes a third party to use the APIs before they make a difference.

It will be those folks you will need to go after, be it Sony/BMG, WB, etc.

Hey, wait until Trusted Computing is implemented... All new hardware! Oh my!

 

[valkator]

to be honest with you guys... i think all of this digital recording, digital this digital that and HD this and HD that will eventually lead to complete corporate control. Right now it seems like hey this is cool i can use dvr it is easy and HD DVD is cool because it looks good. All of these things will eventually and slowly will control what you watch, what you do with your media and how you use your digital media. This digital age may seem very impressive with all of its advancements but in reality it just leads to advancements in corporate control. You guys just watch. in 20 years... revolution.

It is like dangling a dessert in front of a guy with an eating disorder.

 

[Intelia]

It seems to me that if apple will sell their OP to consumers it will be an instant hit . Come on Steve Jobs do the right thing sell us your OP

 

[klah]

HDCP is part of the HD-DVD spec. It doesn't matter if it is a stand-alone player, PC or Mac, if you want to output above 480p with HD-DVD you have to have HDCP.

So, I'm thinking that people with laptops that install can Windows Vista on it they'll be SOL since their displays cannot bechanged period.

They are only SOL in trying to use an external HDDVD-rom to play HD-DVDs above 480p. You can assume that when laptops are actually shipping with internal HD-DVD and Bluray drives the displays will have been updated.

 

[WoundedWallet]

There is one simple solution for the DRM war. Stop buying music or movies that have DRM, even if all your hardware is DRM friendly.

The only reason they are doing this is because they think that consumers are addicted to their stuff and will put up with any crap they serve.

Corporations are driven by money if they realize that their strategy backfired they will scale it back slowly. No revolution is necessary, just a conscious effort. Is not like music and movies are necessary for survival.

Besides, if they win this one that will be a good step in the direction of them preventing you to enter a grocery store unless you have a chip implanted on your skin to prevent theft.

The only problem is that the majority of the people don't see more than two days ahead in the future. So they are easily manipulated to dig their own grave. They will even pay for the shovels.....

 

[ajf3]

They think it will work because they are moving it into hardware. It becomes much harder to remove once in hardware, and it's a lot easier to trace physical circumvention devices (which, again, by the DMCA, are thoroughly illegal in the US) and press charges. It can work if they make it illegal to break at all, instead of break and distribute.

I agree - it'll be like the new digital cable boxes. There used to be cracks for premium content before, but now that everythings digital, there aren't any more decoder boxes.

 

[sundev]

When is Google coming out with their OS again??

 

[amdnVuser]

In terms of this topic, the one beneficial factor (for me) is that I now have a (legitimate) reason to convince my fiancee to buy 56" of 1080p DLP sweetness.

Also, it should be noted that HDCP was developed by Intel (in conjunction with Silicon Image) and is licensed by one of its subsidiaries (Digital Content Protection, LLC.) to content providers. Thus, yet another reason not to buy Intel, not to mention that they deserve as much (if not more) of a F@*! YOU as Microsoft and the content providers.

Lastly, you loyal AT readers should have already known/expected this:

Link

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Hi everyone,

Not much of a first post, but I felt compelled to ask this question (and apologies if it has been mentioned before):

If they're making everyone buy new monitors for premium content, then why are they showing stuff like this, which runs on my non-HDCP monitor just fine? Have I missed something?

 

[reallyscrued]

Papa, read the first post. HDCP is a protection scheme used by Windows Longhorn.

(BTW, on the infinately miniscule chance you might actually be running longhorn, I'd really like a copy, send me a PM)

 

[McArra]

I WILL NOT BUY MICROSOFT AGAIN. NEVER.

 

[humanentity]

anybody have advice on choosing a linux distro
sayonara windows hail to linux

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: humanentity
anybody have advice on choosing a linux distro
sayonara windows hail to linux

I'm istalling Ubuntu soon for my second rig, from what I heard is a great Linux.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Originally posted by: reallyscrued
Papa, read the first post. HDCP is a protection scheme used by Windows Longhorn.

Hehe, yes I realise this. What I meant was... why are they even showing us this (and have the cheek of giving some recommend requirements at the bottom of the page, with no mention of HDCP)?

Surely some people will discover these clips and say "wow this is great, I'm going to upgrade my pc to fit those requirements", and then they'll be enjoying the Batman Begins trailer in 1080p on their 2405FPW, for example, and then when the actual HD movies become available, they'll find they need HDCP, and have wasted lots of money?

Or are you saying that XP will not use HDCP and HD content will run fine? I think not? I'm confusing myself here....

 

[Continuity28]

Originally posted by: klah
HDCP is part of the HD-DVD spec. It doesn't matter if it is a stand-alone player, PC or Mac, if you want to output above 480p with HD-DVD you have to have HDCP.

As with DVDs today, when YOU make the DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc, YOU decide what protection if any you want to include.

Speaking for DVDs, all Hollywood movies would have CSS/Macrovision/region coding/etc, but once YOU are making the DVD, these are OPTIONS and never requirements. Same for HD-DVD and HDCP, it's built into the specifications for the medium, not a requirement for anyone but possibly Hollywood. As such, people will simply not buy or rent these new media if they won't display on their monitor. 480p is fine for most, and if it isn't, they won't buy it.

And then you'll get people that will take that Hollywood movie, reauthor it with HDCP off, just like you can author DVDs with no CSS/region codes. HDCP is not built into MPEG4 just like CSS/Macrovision/regions aren't built into MPEG2, that said, the player will handle it unless it demands HDCP, and if thats the case, you hack the firmware of the player itself. There's always a way around these things, and the companies that keep pushing it will get burned.

 

[niggles]

Originally posted by: valkator
to be honest with you guys... i think all of this digital recording, digital this digital that and HD this and HD that will eventually lead to complete corporate control. Right now it seems like hey this is cool i can use dvr it is easy and HD DVD is cool because it looks good. All of these things will eventually and slowly will control what you watch, what you do with your media and how you use your digital media. This digital age may seem very impressive with all of its advancements but in reality it just leads to advancements in corporate control. You guys just watch. in 20 years... revolution.

It is like dangling a dessert in front of a guy with an eating disorder.

I whole heartedly disagree! First your analogy is not quite right... it's like dangling heroin in front of a pot smoker might be more apt. The difference is that we are not quite where MS is trying to take us so we're not actually on it yet, we simply have a taste of what it could be like. Second it will only happen if we let it happen. If no one goes out and uses it then the service goes the way of the EdselEdsel car. A funny idea that no one was interested in paying for. We all have the power to both say something and more importantly vote with our dollars. If no one buys it or uses it then this all becomes a moot point.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Originally posted by: Papa Lazarou
What I meant was... why are they even showing us this (and have the cheek of giving some recommend requirements at the bottom of the page, with no mention of HDCP)?

Surely some people will discover these clips and say "wow this is great, I'm going to upgrade my pc to fit those requirements", and then they'll be enjoying the Batman Begins trailer in 1080p on their 2405FPW, for example, and then when the actual HD movies become available, they'll find they need HDCP, and have wasted lots of money?

So..... anyone want to answer my questions?

 

[Busithoth]

I'm more than a little skeptical about this as well.
How could they base an entire marketing strategy around a technology that doesn't presently exist?

Longhorn could support it but not actively try to enforce it straight off.
It would suppress sales in a massive way, I imagine.

The act of desampling video on the fly would be such a performance hit that the crack to fix it would be posted on CNET.com, for crying out loud.