Windows 8 Consumer Preview Feedback Thread

[BlockheadBrown]

BTW - If anyone from Microsoft HR stumbles on this.... Please, hire this guy: http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/24/2822891/windows-desktop-ui-concept (proposed alternate Windows UI)

Elegant, useful and straight-forward. This proposed UI is amazing! I'd love for this to be a viable option.

 

[BD2003]

Elegant, useful and straight-forward. This proposed UI is amazing! I'd love for this to be a viable option.

It's still a little too stark and monochromatic for me - atop of my misgivings about the UI, I think the design of metro looks incredibly dull.

But at least you see how thats actually a desktop UI.

 

[Deeko]

Elegant, useful and straight-forward. This proposed UI is amazing! I'd love for this to be a viable option.

Do you use the Zune player software? Because essentially, that's what that proposed UI is. Its the general UI of the Zune player, with non-Zune related things on top of it.

 

[lxskllr]

Aside from the Metro apps, I like it. It isn't that much different than the old Windows, and I like the new Start window. That puts a lot of useful apps at the forefront. If they can refrain from Metroizing everything, This will be a fine release. I still won't use it, but I like it ok.

 

[gmaster456]

It's a good opportunity to write a "How to use a computer book" like they had in the 90s :^D

Hmm. Actually not a bad idea :hmm:.

 

[rockyct]

The Metro GUI is terrible for multi-tasking on a desktop / laptop.

Let's say I'm putting together a ppt presentation. I'm using the desktop and have ppt loaded, a couple of tabbed browser pages and Paint. Now I need to launch Word -- I have to go back to the Metro menu to click on the tile - which launches the full-screen iteration of the program rather than windowed on my desktop.

Full-screen IE browsing? Yeah it looks great, but how in the heck do I swap between tabs?

If Microsoft is smart, they're going to renege and let you choose between the standard Windows GUI and the Metro GUI. I have no doubt that Metro will be great for pads as it is on their phones, but I don't use my desktop / laptop as simple appliances.

Well, for that example, Office is a desktop app (even for tablets).

 

[rockyct]

At this point we can only hope the backlash is so loud and vocal that they rethink their fundamental approach to this. This whole dual UI model is just crazy. It's mixing oil and water.

Then again, this is the same company that ripped drive extender out of home server...so releasing a poorly thought out product is kind of their new way of doing things.

Thank god theyre not the monopoly they used to be. I fully expect Mac market share to increase dramatically if they don't slam the brakes on this.

Yawn. The focus will be a single UI for desktop/tablet/phone/tv (xbox). The desktop is needed to do more power user type stuff.

They took out DE because they couldn't get it to work as well as it needs to be for Windows Server. Oh, BTW, it's back now in Win8 as "drive pools." I wouldn't be surprised if WHS is replaced by Win8 completely but hopefully there will be a WHS based on Win8 instead.

The Mac is moving to one UI as well. They are iPad-ifying OSX so they are doing what Microsoft is doing but in a much slower way.

In the end, I think power users are going to be annoyed by Win8 for a couple years as they were with Vista, but the overall consumer market is going to like it.

 

[QueBert]

Ahh, I see. So basically in a triple boot system you'd usually use something like GRUB, since it plays well with Mac OS X, Windows, and Ubuntu. System Commander isn't the same thing obviously, but the principles are similar.

Windows does not play nicely with other bootloaders, and will always overwrite the MBR on your boot disk to point to the Windows BCE bootloader. So in this case installing Windows 8 will cause BCE to once again take over bootloader duties from System Commander. I'm not familiar with using System Commander, but after installing Windows 8 you will need to go through the process to have it write itself back to the MBR (it sounds like you installed it through Windows, so that shouldn't be too hard).I'm using Workstation 8.0.2. I have no idea what the state of Player is.

Yeah I was tired when I posted my question last night, since OSX & Unbuntu are on a totally different HD than my Win 7, I don't see how installing Win 8 could give me any hassle.

 

[BD2003]

Yawn. The focus will be a single UI for desktop/tablet/phone/tv (xbox). The desktop is needed to do more power user type stuff.

What, like multitask? That's the bar for being a power user now?

They took out DE because they couldn't get it to work as well as it needs to be for Windows Server. Oh, BTW, it's back now in Win8 as "drive pools." I wouldn't be surprised if WHS is replaced by Win8 completely but hopefully there will be a WHS based on Win8 instead.

So either they were incompetent, or they let the needs of one group screw it up for others...like they're apparently doing now.

The Mac is moving to one UI as well. They are iPad-ifying OSX so they are doing what Microsoft is doing but in a much slower way.

What apple is doing with lion and mountain lion isnt even remotely close to what MS is doing. They haven't forced a touch UI into their desktop OS because it's crazy, not because they can't figure out how to confuse people fast enough.

In the end, I think power users are going to be annoyed by Win8 for a couple years as they were with Vista, but the overall consumer market is going to like it.

The consumer market hated vista. It sold despite that because it's windows, but it had a terrible reputation amongst the general public. Stating otherwise is just rewriting history.

Either way, this is going to be worse. The general public is going to go crazy once their computers stop working the way they're used to.

 

[GTaudiophile]

MS just needs to give us this and call it a day. All the in-between crap is just crap.

 

[rockyct]

What, like multitask? That's the bar for being a power user now?



So either they were incompetent, or they let the needs of one group screw it up for others...like they're apparently doing now.



What apple is doing with lion and mountain lion isnt even remotely close to what MS is doing. They haven't forced a touch UI into their desktop OS because it's crazy, not because they can't figure out how to confuse people fast enough.



The consumer market hated vista. It sold despite that because it's windows, but it had a terrible reputation amongst the general public. Stating otherwise is just rewriting history.

Either way, this is going to be worse. The general public is going to go crazy once their computers stop working the way they're used to.

1) True multitasking is of course still there with the desktop but multitasking that most people do is just fine within the metro UI. You're a power user if you there is nothing on the start menu that is helpful to you.

2) DE didn't work for Windows Server. It doesn't mean it's horribly flawed, they just moved it from a server grade product to a consumer product.

3) Every release is a step in that direction for OSX. From the App store being the new focus of software to other UI changes. In a few years, an Apple desktop will not be that different from their iPad.

4) Vista itself was fine once the driver issues and some other bugs were fixed. Power users hated it because it a decent change in the UI and menu structure. Comsumers didn't really care one way or the other because they got it on their new computer. Windows 7 didn't "undo" any of the changes Vista made and only increased the changes from XP. No one is really complaining about Win7 now and saying the direction they took with Vista was incorrect.

 

[Deeko]

You know, there have been a few comparisons to OS X in this thread. I've used a decent amount of Lion, on a laptop with a multitouch trackpad, and it makes HEAVY use of gestures. I wonder - just how useful would Lion be without said trackpad? Things like two-finger-swipe to switch full screen apps (or "desktops" as they call them), or three fingers up to get to Mission Control, or four finger pinch to get to LaunchPad - I have to assume there are ways to do those things with a mouse, but what are they? Do you have to pull up your dock, click Mission Control, then select the full screen app you want to move around? That doesn't sound any more efficient or intuitive.

I really don't think the comparison is as invalid as some are suggesting - its just a more gradual, subtle change rather than doing it all at once.

 

[BD2003]

You know, there have been a few comparisons to OS X in this thread. I've used a decent amount of Lion, on a laptop with a multitouch trackpad, and it makes HEAVY use of gestures. I wonder - just how useful would Lion be without said trackpad? Things like two-finger-swipe to switch full screen apps (or "desktops" as they call them), or three fingers up to get to Mission Control, or four finger pinch to get to LaunchPad - I have to assume there are ways to do those things with a mouse, but what are they? Do you have to pull up your dock, click Mission Control, then select the full screen app you want to move around? That doesn't sound any more efficient or intuitive.

I really don't think the comparison is as invalid as some are suggesting - its just a more gradual, subtle change rather than doing it all at once.

There's a key difference here - the gestures on lion are used to enhance the desktop experience, not replace it. Touch can absolutely be *integrated* into the desktop - but thats not at all what windows 8 is doing. The problem with windows 8 isn't the touch, its the separation of the UIs. Its got touch world and desktop world and they don't mix well at all. And touchscreen and trackpad gestures are very different things. With lion, if you don't have a trackpad, you can use similar gestures on the magic mouse to switch fullscreen apps, or use a keyboard shortcut. Fullscreen apps make a lot of sense on an 11 inch macbook air (which always has a trackpad), but are kind of besides the point on a 22-27 inch monitor.

The launchpad (which is the iOS like app launcher) is kind of silly and easily ignorable - the primary way to launch apps is still the dock. Its not like there are "launchpad apps" you download from the app store and "dock apps". There's one kind of app for OS X - apps designed for a desktop without making compromises for a tablet. There's nothing about lion or mountain lion that changes that. iOS apps don't have to make compromises to work with a mouse/kb either.

 

[IamDavid]

Very nice, tight, clean feel. Amazed at the huge chance MS is taking although I can easily see it paying off.

 

[ViRGE]

There's a key difference here - the gestures on lion are used to enhance the desktop experience, not replace it. Touch can absolutely be *integrated* into the desktop - but thats not at all what windows 8 is doing. The problem with windows 8 isn't the touch, its the separation of the UIs. Its got touch world and desktop world and they don't mix well at all. And touchscreen and trackpad gestures are very different things. With lion, if you don't have a trackpad, you can use similar gestures on the magic mouse to switch fullscreen apps, or use a keyboard shortcut. Fullscreen apps make a lot of sense on an 11 inch macbook air (which always has a trackpad), but are kind of besides the point on a 22-27 inch monitor.

The launchpad (which is the iOS like app launcher) is kind of silly and easily ignorable - the primary way to launch apps is still the dock. Its not like there are "launchpad apps" you download from the app store and "dock apps". There's one kind of app for OS X - apps designed for a desktop without making compromises for a tablet. There's nothing about lion or mountain lion that changes that. iOS apps don't have to make compromises to work with a mouse/kb either.

I concur with BD. Launchpad is interesting, but I don't know a single soul with a regular mouse who uses it. It doesn't work well with a mouse or on large screens, and even Apple doesn't try to refute that. Which is fine, since you aren't forced to use it in any way.

 

[EskLuxor]

luckily i have 2 spare laptops for exactly this kinda situation.

 

[Deeko]

There's a key difference here - the gestures on lion are used to enhance the desktop experience, not replace it. Touch can absolutely be *integrated* into the desktop - but thats not at all what windows 8 is doing. The problem with windows 8 isn't the touch, its the separation of the UIs. Its got touch world and desktop world and they don't mix well at all. And touchscreen and trackpad gestures are very different things. With lion, if you don't have a trackpad, you can use similar gestures on the magic mouse to switch fullscreen apps, or use a keyboard shortcut. Fullscreen apps make a lot of sense on an 11 inch macbook air (which always has a trackpad), but are kind of besides the point on a 22-27 inch monitor.

The launchpad (which is the iOS like app launcher) is kind of silly and easily ignorable - the primary way to launch apps is still the dock. Its not like there are "launchpad apps" you download from the app store and "dock apps". There's one kind of app for OS X - apps designed for a desktop without making compromises for a tablet. There's nothing about lion or mountain lion that changes that. iOS apps don't have to make compromises to work with a mouse/kb either.

What if you don't have a magic mouse and you want to switch between full screen apps? Is there a way to do that, other than a keyboard shortcut? Who says a Win8 OEM won't build a gesture into their trackpad, not unlike OS X, to simulate a touch screen for Win8 operations (assuming Apple doesn't have the patent for that)? Microsoft already has their own touch mouse with gestures built in - maybe it will be a part of that.

Like others have said (and I was simply agreeing to) - its not as drastic a change, but a gradual one, and its clear that Apple is moving in the same direction. Maybe it won't be Lion, or Mountain Lion, but sooner or later a gesture is going to be critical to operation of OS X, and while there will be a regular mouse workaround, its still something designed to be done with a gesture.

 

[gmaster456]

What if you don't have a magic mouse and you want to switch between full screen apps? Is there a way to do that, other than a keyboard shortcut? Who says a Win8 OEM won't build a gesture into their trackpad, not unlike OS X, to simulate a touch screen for Win8 operations (assuming Apple doesn't have the patent for that)? Microsoft already has their own touch mouse with gestures built in - maybe it will be a part of that.

Like others have said (and I was simply agreeing to) - its not as drastic a change, but a gradual one, and its clear that Apple is moving in the same direction. Maybe it won't be Lion, or Mountain Lion, but sooner or later a gesture is going to be critical to operation of OS X, and while there will be a regular mouse workaround, its still something designed to be done with a gesture.

The thing is touch =/= gesture. Gestures are still manageable on a desktop. Touch, not so much.

 

[BD2003]

What if you don't have a magic mouse and you want to switch between full screen apps? Is there a way to do that, other than a keyboard shortcut?

Hot corners. But realistically, if you're on a desktop with a decent monitor and lack a trackpad, fullscreen apps aren't really what you'll be using, so its kind of a moot point. Thats the other core problem with metro - its forcing full screen apps for systems that it isn't appropriate for.

Who says a Win8 OEM won't build a gesture into their trackpad, not unlike OS X, to simulate a touch screen for Win8 operations (assuming Apple doesn't have the patent for that)? Microsoft already has their own touch mouse with gestures built in - maybe it will be a part of that.

If they did that might take some pain out of switching the full screen apps, but the real issue is why you're being forced to use full screen apps on a desktop in the first place.

Like others have said (and I was simply agreeing to) - its not as drastic a change, but a gradual one, and its clear that Apple is moving in the same direction. Maybe it won't be Lion, or Mountain Lion, but sooner or later a gesture is going to be critical to operation of OS X, and while there will be a regular mouse workaround, its still something designed to be done with a gesture.

As long as that gesture serves to enhance the desktop/laptop experience and not detract or distract from it, I have no issue with it. I've got no problems with touch or gestures where it's appropriate. There is absolutely nothing in Lion or Mountain Lion that feels inappropriate for a desktop/laptop...cause thats solely what its made for. Its not clear at all that they're moving in a one size fits all direction like windows is. They've been pushing interoperability between OSX and iOS, but nothing at all indicates they're about to merge them.

 

[BD2003]

I see a lot of people saying "it ain't so bad." But who can actually point to something about metro that actually makes the desktop/laptop *better*, like you could with the taskbar, ribbon, etc?

 

[Muyoso]

I see a lot of people saying "it ain't so bad." But who can actually point to something about metro that actually makes the desktop/laptop *better*, like you could with the taskbar, ribbon, etc?

Exactly. As a desktop user, I dont see a single real improvement with all of the changes Microsoft has made. Everything they have introduced revolves around touch input. They have made life using a desktop HARDER.

 

[lxskllr]

I see a lot of people saying "it ain't so bad." But who can actually point to something about metro that actually makes the desktop/laptop *better*, like you could with the taskbar, ribbon, etc?

I'd tentatively say the Start page is better. It presents useful information at a glance, while not removing legacy functionality.

 

[Dominato3r]

I've been using it for a day now and it's no where near as bad as some of you make it seem. It's a new UI, take some time to learn it. You'll eventually learn ways of doing things faster.

I guess it's true what they about people being afraid of change

 

[BD2003]

I'm going to try and sneak it on to my wife's laptop this weekend. (backing up first, of course ) She's hardly a power user. Im sure she doesn't even know windows 8 even exists yet. Anyone really think she's going to be pleasantly surprised?

 

[lxskllr]

I'm going to try and sneak it on to my wife's laptop this weekend. (backing up first, of course ) She's hardly a power user. Im sure she doesn't even know windows 8 even exists yet. Anyone really think she's going to be pleasantly surprised?

I'd really be interested in hearing what she thinks. I've thought the same about Ubuntu's Unity interface. I've been using computers too long, and I think I'm out of touch with what "normal" people think. I'd like to hear a noob's opinion.