The only response I have to that manifesto is Mac is not an acronym when you are talking about personal computers from Apple.
Originally posted by: stash
PM me, I'll hook you up with with some real good sh!t.
Stash has a stash?
Proprietary hardware like the Intel processor? The Intel chipset? The PCI bus? The DDR2 memory? The SATA hard drives? The gigabit ethernet? The broadcom wireless? The nVidia or ATI or Intel graphics? No more proprietary than the average Windows machine.
I was thinking of servers and super computers. Also drag said
Although I think it may be a while before Windows can get into embedded systems.
True, however it could potentially cost the company more to hire someone to set up and maintain all those computers.
Well Linux dominates in a few key areas. The question I am posing is: Will, or to what extent, will Microsoft/Apple close this gap. Perhaps if I was running Fedora instead of Slackware, your statement would sound more reasonable.
Nothinman
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MS has been putting out WinCE for a while, it hasn't taken over the market or anything but it's not failing AFAIK either.
It costs a decent amount to hire a competent NT admin as well. The problem is that a lot of people think they can do it without any real training or experience because "Hey, it's just Windows, right?".
That makes absolutely no sense at all.
lol, sure of course not, silly me...cool now i can insert my new 8800gtx and asus p5b mobo, my X-FI audio card and.....aw crap, i wasted my time and money
yeah lots of freedom there...then again i wasnt really referring to DIY kits to begin with
but limitation of any available hardware is a limit of choice...meaning they have it reserved or limited to specific requirements therefore making those particulars propriatary (defined: Belonging, or pertaining, to)
furthermore: from apples site
Mac OS X Version 10.4 requires a Macintosh with:
* PowerPC G3, G4, or G5 processor
* Built-in FireWire
* At least 256MB of physical RAM
* A built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card supported by your computer
* At least 3.0 GB of available space on your hard drive; 4GB of disk space if you install XCode 2 developer tools
* DVD drive for installation (get CD media for $9.95)
Note: Mac OS X does not support processor upgrade cards. The amount of disk space required depends on your computer and the way you are installing Mac OS X.
Mac OS X 10.4.6 or later;
Mac OS X 10.5 ?Leopard? ready
Hardware Requirements
Mac Computer Support on any 32 or 64-bit Intel-powered iMac, Mac Mini, MacBook, MacBook Pro & Mac Pro Tower.
Processor Intel Core Solo, Intel Core Duo, Intel Core 2 Duo and Intel Dual-Core Xeon. Full support for Intel Virtualization Technology (VT-x).
Nothinman
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You act as if Windows isn't limiting with regards to hardware it can run on, I've got 3 machines here that aren't DIY boxes that you can't even consider running Windows on. And just because the whole hardware and software isn't owned by one company doesn't mean the individual components of the others aren't just as proprietary as any other.
Hardware is not we are really talking about. What is being dicussed is if Mac software or Microsoft Software will knock out Linux out of the place. I Understand ( in my point of view ) that there is no way to knock out Linux out of the game, first because of the "fair use" without restrictions or the FUD. The majority of people never read carefully the EULA to know the Rules of the agreement. This implies in a bunch of them being victims like Julie Amero, I will always remember that case because I know that she is completely innocent for not be prepared to solve situations whereas tecnologies being used are used without proper training, the majority of enterprises think that the user has an obligation to know how to operate systems like Windows. And neglect the fact that the user has to be properly trained before things like what was happened start to happen.
The school is using her ignorance and innocence with computers to aterrorize her life.
But, turning back, we all know that there is strong and weak points in every OS in the world, but if you think that there is so many people being educated about this and most of them don´t have money to help buy a 370 feet Boat to Mr. Paul Allen to ensure that he have a boat 5 feet bigger than the guy of Google, you will notice that they are leaving the boat of the piracy in the world. Yes, education equals libertys.
Instead of the FUD plagged by MS, they are confident in Linux, that they will never be bothered by sues.
Of course, not all of them want´s to know the viscerals of the computers, but, Linux in the desktop is Mature, very mature. I use, My mom uses, My wife uses without any worryes. We don´t need anti this or anti that, we are not forced to buy another software if we don´t need because autokill switch isn´t installed into our systems.
I donate, for Ubuntu, Donate for Blender Foundation, helped other coleagues here in Brazil with their problems, and donate too for others Linux people.
We do what we can do, not what we are forced to do by sues or eulas...
Is happening a change in the world, not the prostitution of the information society, but we are getting conscious about computers. This leaves older ways of making business forever in the trash. Some will cry for it.
Agregating the suffering history of the users, alternatives, cheaper ways of doing competitive business, Windows and MAC will never kick out Linux out of the way.
The school is using her ignorance and innocence with computers to aterrorize her life.
But, turning back, we all know that there is strong and weak points in every OS in the world, but if you think that there is so many people being educated about this and most of them don´t have money to help buy a 370 feet Boat to Mr. Paul Allen to ensure that he have a boat 5 feet bigger than the guy of Google, you will notice that they are leaving the boat of the piracy in the world. Yes, education equals libertys.
Instead of the FUD plagged by MS, they are confident in Linux, that they will never be bothered by sues.
Of course, not all of them want´s to know the viscerals of the computers, but, Linux in the desktop is Mature, very mature. I use, My mom uses, My wife uses without any worryes. We don´t need anti this or anti that, we are not forced to buy another software if we don´t need because autokill switch isn´t installed into our systems.
I donate, for Ubuntu, Donate for Blender Foundation, helped other coleagues here in Brazil with their problems, and donate too for others Linux people.
We do what we can do, not what we are forced to do by sues or eulas...
Is happening a change in the world, not the prostitution of the information society, but we are getting conscious about computers. This leaves older ways of making business forever in the trash. Some will cry for it.
Agregating the suffering history of the users, alternatives, cheaper ways of doing competitive business, Windows and MAC will never kick out Linux out of the way.
I think this person's post was completely ignored. He or she brought up some good points that no one debated. I'll fix the Engish so people can understand it a bit better.
--------------------------------------------------------------
I guess what Halfpower is trying to ask people is if proprietary software will swallow Linux over the years. Well, Apple hasn´t made any big movements over Linux to blame it for its' problems. Microsoft is always trying to blame Linux for everything. We all know that Ballmer continuously tells stupid things about Linux that aren´t true. He says that Microsoft can sue Linux users; telling them they are using their code. But, there hasn´t been any proof about that.
In Fact, NT 4.0 is a modified BSD with all the restrictions only Microsoft provides. This would include Microsoft's abusive EULAS, gouged prices, remote attestation -- which is on its way to being used first from the BBC London as EFF publicized.
The problem is that the consumer is limited by so many rules to just simply use software on their computers. Also, the software made by Microsoft continuously suffers from high prices. Outside the USA, the problem is so immense that nations worldwide are embracing Linux. The other problem is that Microsoft uses the government to represent their interests over the users -- generally enterprises that can be sued for money.
They don´t simply have new software made for people who don´t want to pay. That´s one problem. Windows Vista Starter Edition is so very much limited. The CALs is an abuse. One would have to pay for connections or users for a product that one had already paid for. Either you pay twice or, if you don´t know nothing about computers, you can get sued like Julie Amero.
The pirates never asked Microsoft about anything. They simply never used their support. Not because the software is perfect, but because they know that their software is pirated. They help each other out.
Either choose Windows Vista Home Starter The Limited Edition, or Windows XPirated Pro Corporate Edition.
Here in Brazil, in the black market, only the Vista Ultimate is being sold. All of the journalists and reporters already announced the " crime ". No other versions of Vista are pirated. Why not?
What I´m telling you is when they are spending most of their "precious" time and money to promote limits to the users, pirates are saying that there's no limit. What will you choose in this situation? A complex OS with activation hassles, rules, rules, and more rules? Or would you choose a simple "Press Enter" message?
For the average Joe who doesn't know anything about the consequences of what he or she is doing, they only want a simple solution. They don't want an OS that tells Microsoft what is going on their computers. They're thinking, "The computer is mine". Well. I guess Microsoft doesn´t think this way if you're using their software.
And the Mac?
Mac is closed source, but is not attacking other initiatives. There are technical restrictions too. For example, I recently bought a 1GB MP3 player/pen drive. Guess what I asked the salesman.
"Is this restricted to vendor software use only?"
"NO" he says.
Well, I was happy. I knew I could use any software I wanted to rip my CDs to MP3 without any hassles. I knew I could just simply copy and paste my files to my device like it was a simple pen drive. I don´t need much. I just need simple functionality.
That experience would've changed if I had bought the 8GB MP3 player that was there for the same price. I would have had to register it to use it and I would have also been obligated to use only the vendor´s software to transfer my music to the device. So that means I would've have had to connect it to the Internet. F***k that devil device. I got the other MP3 player and I was out.
That´s the problem we are facing. The problem of "Fair Use" (or the lack thereof).
Pirates have the illegal "Fair Use" of software, but Linux has the legal fair use of its' software.
Honest people have to register their software and go through a bunch of bureaucracy to simply use Microsoft software...
But, speaking of the Mac, they do wrong things too, however, Steve Jobs said that isn´t what he wants. He perceives that Fair use will rule the world.
That´s the point. As far as I'm concerned, any proprietary software that goes on with this type of bureaucracy or invasion of the user´s privacy, or wallet, they will loose to the free and fair use stuff. A median is required for them to survive. Ballmer is desperate to do such crazy things.
Look at what Vista is with their remote attestation, new drivers, loss in video quality and registration... The more they try to push Linux to the ground with offenses, the more users will see that they are paying much more for less with proprietary systems.
Would you pay to live in a jail?
The problem is that Microsoft always stays behind their lawyers and other companies. Open source stays behind you. The developers that understand the technology not only make it free as in liberty, but they also make it for fair use too.
Linux is the fair use of the software world. That´s the point.
That´s what users are reaching for, and because of that, Linux is getting famous for it every day. The self propaganda of Linux is Fair Use. It´s invincible.
Because of this, they will never knock out Linux.
Linux will always survive with proprietary software lurking about. Whether Linux will grow to be much bigger or not, fair use will rise up and protect users from bad publicity and court hearings. I don´t know what the next challenge for Linux will be, but depending on the world's love for it, it certainly will win.
Apple closes their mouth and tries to push that game to the population -- silently gaining consumers from Windows systems.
Well, in the final act, I can see Microsoft Windows being a limited platform for games and nothing more. The OSes all do nearly the same things. If you want to work very well and be very productive with fair use software while performing specialized tasks ( without video games ), choose Linux. If you want to turn your computer into a Video Game, choose Microsoft. If you want to edit your videos and have cool websites, choose a Mac.
For other specialized tasks, choose others
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
I guess what Halfpower is trying to ask people is if proprietary software will swallow Linux over the years. Well, Apple hasn´t made any big movements over Linux to blame it for its' problems. Microsoft is always trying to blame Linux for everything. We all know that Ballmer continuously tells stupid things about Linux that aren´t true. He says that Microsoft can sue Linux users; telling them they are using their code. But, there hasn´t been any proof about that.
In Fact, NT 4.0 is a modified BSD with all the restrictions only Microsoft provides. This would include Microsoft's abusive EULAS, gouged prices, remote attestation -- which is on its way to being used first from the BBC London as EFF publicized.
The problem is that the consumer is limited by so many rules to just simply use software on their computers. Also, the software made by Microsoft continuously suffers from high prices. Outside the USA, the problem is so immense that nations worldwide are embracing Linux. The other problem is that Microsoft uses the government to represent their interests over the users -- generally enterprises that can be sued for money.
They don´t simply have new software made for people who don´t want to pay. That´s one problem. Windows Vista Starter Edition is so very much limited. The CALs is an abuse. One would have to pay for connections or users for a product that one had already paid for. Either you pay twice or, if you don´t know nothing about computers, you can get sued like Julie Amero.
The pirates never asked Microsoft about anything. They simply never used their support. Not because the software is perfect, but because they know that their software is pirated. They help each other out.
Either choose Windows Vista Home Starter The Limited Edition, or Windows XPirated Pro Corporate Edition.
Here in Brazil, in the black market, only the Vista Ultimate is being sold. All of the journalists and reporters already announced the " crime ". No other versions of Vista are pirated. Why not?
What I´m telling you is when they are spending most of their "precious" time and money to promote limits to the users, pirates are saying that there's no limit. What will you choose in this situation? A complex OS with activation hassles, rules, rules, and more rules? Or would you choose a simple "Press Enter" message?
For the average Joe who doesn't know anything about the consequences of what he or she is doing, they only want a simple solution. They don't want an OS that tells Microsoft what is going on their computers. They're thinking, "The computer is mine". Well. I guess Microsoft doesn´t think this way if you're using their software.
And the Mac?
Mac is closed source, but is not attacking other initiatives. There are technical restrictions too. For example, I recently bought a 1GB MP3 player/pen drive. Guess what I asked the salesman.
"Is this restricted to vendor software use only?"
"NO" he says.
Well, I was happy. I knew I could use any software I wanted to rip my CDs to MP3 without any hassles. I knew I could just simply copy and paste my files to my device like it was a simple pen drive. I don´t need much. I just need simple functionality.
That experience would've changed if I had bought the 8GB MP3 player that was there for the same price. I would have had to register it to use it and I would have also been obligated to use only the vendor´s software to transfer my music to the device. So that means I would've have had to connect it to the Internet. F***k that devil device. I got the other MP3 player and I was out.
That´s the problem we are facing. The problem of "Fair Use" (or the lack thereof).
Pirates have the illegal "Fair Use" of software, but Linux has the legal fair use of its' software.
Honest people have to register their software and go through a bunch of bureaucracy to simply use Microsoft software...
But, speaking of the Mac, they do wrong things too, however, Steve Jobs said that isn´t what he wants. He perceives that Fair use will rule the world.
That´s the point. As far as I'm concerned, any proprietary software that goes on with this type of bureaucracy or invasion of the user´s privacy, or wallet, they will loose to the free and fair use stuff. A median is required for them to survive. Ballmer is desperate to do such crazy things.
Look at what Vista is with their remote attestation, new drivers, loss in video quality and registration... The more they try to push Linux to the ground with offenses, the more users will see that they are paying much more for less with proprietary systems.
Would you pay to live in a jail?
The problem is that Microsoft always stays behind their lawyers and other companies. Open source stays behind you. The developers that understand the technology not only make it free as in liberty, but they also make it for fair use too.
Linux is the fair use of the software world. That´s the point.
That´s what users are reaching for, and because of that, Linux is getting famous for it every day. The self propaganda of Linux is Fair Use. It´s invincible.
Because of this, they will never knock out Linux.
Linux will always survive with proprietary software lurking about. Whether Linux will grow to be much bigger or not, fair use will rise up and protect users from bad publicity and court hearings. I don´t know what the next challenge for Linux will be, but depending on the world's love for it, it certainly will win.
Apple closes their mouth and tries to push that game to the population -- silently gaining consumers from Windows systems.
Well, in the final act, I can see Microsoft Windows being a limited platform for games and nothing more. The OSes all do nearly the same things. If you want to work very well and be very productive with fair use software while performing specialized tasks ( without video games ), choose Linux. If you want to turn your computer into a Video Game, choose Microsoft. If you want to edit your videos and have cool websites, choose a Mac.
For other specialized tasks, choose others
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothinman
Elite Member
- Sep 14, 2001
- 30,672
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Only the TCP/IP stack and that's perfectly legal because of the BSD license and lack of patents on the ideas. Things like Samba on Linux aren't quite so black and white.
How can you call something that will last you 5-10 years for $200 high? Have you even looked at the prices of the rest of a computers components or other things that peope don't mind paying outrageous prices for like cable TV/Internet, DSL, cell phones, etc?
Too bad the available evidence doesn't seem to agree. Most people just don't care enough, they'll use whatever they're given and since that's Windows it'll stay Windows for a while.
Vista doesn't remotely watch anything you do, the bad drivers aren't MS' fault, video quality is only degraded in DRM'd media and only if the owner of the media requests it and you don't have to register Windows to use it.
Hey,
Quinton MacLeod. Thank, Thank and Thank you.
I am really bad with english ( I'm on a course to solve this now )
Quinton MacLeod. Thank, Thank and Thank you.
I am really bad with english ( I'm on a course to solve this now
)Usually, you're pretty spot on with your comments, but I disagree vehemently with this statement.
First, from my own experience using Linux (and pretty much every other commercial UNIX) in an enterprise environment; commercial users just want the software to work. Our business applications are designed around a particular tech stack, and to maximize ROI, the life cycle of any particular application could (and has in several instances) extend beyond life of the OS from a vendor support perspective.
What this means in real life is that when the government does something idiotic, like say, extend daylight savings time by a few weeks, the ability to compile patches for our EOL, yet still critical servers is a necessity.
Second, the ability to compile your own software actually increases supportability from the vendor's point of view. Bugs that become apparent only in particular usage scenarios can be fixed much more quickly with a vendor recommended patch; allowing the customer to regain stability, without having to wait for a published errata, or OS update.
Nothinman
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True, but seeing as how a lot of "enterprise" crap doesn't come with the source anyway, compiling it is hardly an option. And when most people think about something "just working" compiliation of that something doesn't even enter into their mind.
I know, I've seen crap like that and it's mind numbingly stupid on that software vendor's part. Telling someone they have to install their software on RH9 because that's all they'll support it on even though RH9 hasn't been supported for ~5 years is plain idiotic.
Compiling something to test a vendor patch and compiling it to change it's installation directory or to change some configure options because you think that makes it more secure are totally seperate things. I'm sure they love it when they get people technical enough to compile some things and run through a chunk of the debugging process for them but I'm also sure that they get frustrated when they find out that you've compiled something like sendmail on your own for no real reason because it introduces a ton of new variables.
From what I've seen having programs compiled is a strong 'it depends'.
Plenty of people that do do 'enterprise' stuff are large enough that they have their own developers or contract out. Remember that customization of open source software is a nice way to avoid having to purchase shrink wrapped packages that do everything anybody wants, but doesn't do any of it that well. Often it's cheaper and easier (and much more effective) to take something that is close to what you want and then simply make it do what you want and submit the packages back to the original developers.
On the other hand if you are depending on general support contracts then there is no way you want to go around recompiling supplied software. As soon as you start introducing variables then support costs are going to skyrocket. Having to deal with editable config files are hard enough...
Plenty of people that do do 'enterprise' stuff are large enough that they have their own developers or contract out. Remember that customization of open source software is a nice way to avoid having to purchase shrink wrapped packages that do everything anybody wants, but doesn't do any of it that well. Often it's cheaper and easier (and much more effective) to take something that is close to what you want and then simply make it do what you want and submit the packages back to the original developers.
On the other hand if you are depending on general support contracts then there is no way you want to go around recompiling supplied software. As soon as you start introducing variables then support costs are going to skyrocket. Having to deal with editable config files are hard enough...
That is because it's a proprietary operating system, not proprietary hardware. And the iPod is a bunch of off the shelf parts with proprietary software.
Some processor upgrade cards work too. And the powerpc stuff wasn't too closed, except for the chipsets.
All hints at a proprietary operating system, not proprietary hardware. I can throw Windows, *BSD, or Linux on the Intel based Macs and do just fine. On the PowerPC Macs I'd be limited to the better OSes (*BSD and Linux).
Come up with a new argument, this one is ******.
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