will removing minimum wage accelerate job growth?

[Avvocato Effetti]

That spirit of solidarity is just shining through here lulz

What's a "lulz"?

 

[Steeplerot]

What's a "lulz"?

All 175 of your posts.

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

All 175 of your posts.

Ahhh....ok...trying to understand! Are you friend or foe?

 

[BigDH01]

Come on. You accuse me of lying and then expect a response?
I'll assume you are an inexperienced amateur and will respond.

Americans have a problem. Let's get together and fix it.

You were lying. And you did respond.

You may assume what you wish.

The problem you have is that you wish to generate more profit and labor here is too expensive. You want to pay Americans nothing or to outsource. We are not getting together to fix that.

 

[spittledip]

There are 2 billion people in the world that are willing to work for pennies. They are competing against us who pay 7 dollars an hour. If minimum wage persists, many of the low skill jobs(except ones like retail) will go away. In fact, it has already. For example, the garment industry is almost totally gone in the US.

You cannot survive in the US for just pennies. Nor can you compare what you can live on in other countries as compared to the US. Also, would you have the people of your country starving as they work for their pennies? If the textiles went under, it was partly b/c the business model they operated under was less than efficient. You also have to realize that countries like China subsidize some of their companies allowing them to sell very cheaply. Do you suggest that in America that we subsidize our textile industry to compete with other nations?

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

You were lying. And you did respond.

Prove it.

 

[rchiu]

It wold take a long post to say more to educate you on this, and sorry to say, your reaction doesn't suggest to me you would get it if I did.

But a couple points.

Money isn't real. It's an artificial construct used to get an economy working, and it determines who has more and who has less, but it's not real other than people agreeing to pretend it is.

There is a distribution of wealth. Some 'real', some money,all the same for measuring it. It has higher and lower concentrations of wealth possible.

Increasing the minimum wage gives more to the bottom, redcing the concentration of wealth. It has negligible 'inflationary' effect in any moderate application (or even not so moderate).

It also has, as I said but yoiu did not seem to hear, benefits to the economy as well.

Finite resources? I'll repeat what I've said many times (wish I had a cut and paste):

Wealth is fixed at a moment in time (with different distributopns), and flexible over time (grow fast, grow slow, reeduce, whatever).

Too high a concentration, and too low a concentration, both result in less growth. Increasing the inimum wage when the concentration is too high, as it always is in the US so far, increases growth.

It also has the moral benefit of reducing the concentration of wealth below extremes (now) or excesses.

You pay the poor more. It reduces povery. They spend more, creating more opportunities. They get better education, they have less crime, they buy more houses. The rich get a smaller slice of a bigger pie.

If the rich are idiots, they demand a bigger slice of a smaller pie and exploit the poor more instead.

As for your first pont, tell it to the impoverished masses who worked in slave-like conditions or starved, and had that as their 'free choice' in the late 19th century or in many third-world oligarchies.

But as I said, I doubt you are getting this, so no point in saying more.

Some good points, but you need more real world perspective and not just reading bunch of books.

There are many reason why wealth distribution is not even. some of the reason could be the lower earner lacks the upward mobility due too much power from "evil corporations".

In some countries, that could be the reason, but in US, that's not at all. I would say social and cultural issue cause income gap more so than the power wield by corporations.

Just ask yourself, what is more likely to cause someone to live in poverty in the US? Lack of good earning job or social issues like living in bad part of the neighborhood, having bad personal choices, and having irresponsible parents that didn't raise their kids properly?

I was an immigrants and didn't have access to many of government assistance program. But through my own personal choice, I got 2 advance degrees and was able to find pretty well paid jobs even as a non-citizen.

If you look at income gap by race, you'd find some interesting stats that I will not elaborate here.

What I want to point out here is minimum wage doesn't mean anything here in the US. It is some artificial number thrown out by politicians to gain political favors. In the US, you can live a very comfortable middle income life style if you make the right personal choices and have the right work attitude. Raise or reduce minimum wage won't do anything to income gap until someone pays attention to some of the social/cultural issues and solve problems in certain part of the cities, with certain racial groups and the culture with those racial groups.

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

Blah Blah Blah

 

[BigDH01]

Prove it.

Sure.

Entry level pay should be unregulated. These jobs are meant to be a learning experience and a place to show what you've got. I'm not going to release my treasure to you until I can trust your integrity and reliability. If I have to pay you top wages to discover your qualifications, I'm not interested.

So here you are suggesting that minimum wage jobs are a way for you to determine skill and then you will release your treasure to them (I assume giving them higher wages).

You then suggested you were moving your labor to Mexico to escape lawyers, American bums, and brutal regulation. I responded with...

Of course, you don't really care about regulation or lawyers or Americans.... you just want cheap labor, which the labor rich country of Mexico will provide. Just don't pretend it's to escape the brutal arm of regulation.

You don't really seem to argue this. In fact, you seem to embrace this accusation with the following line.

Hear this, Pal, I'm in the business of delivering what you and others demand.

If you don't like it, prepare to pay way more for goods and services. Are you ready to do that?

Which, of course, is implying that if you had to employ people at American minimum wages that I would have to pay more for my goods. So originally, you attacked minimum wage on the premise that it didn't allow you to try workers before you moved them to a higher wage by giving them your treasure. By this quote, you were frankly acknowledging that your real purpose is not to "try before you buy," but to keep costs down, which you don't do if you give away your treasure. I accused you of doing this in the subsequent posts regarding margins and you had no hesitation in proclaiming that you sought to increase margins and maximize profits.

Although from your posts in other threads, I would doubt you will be decreasing costs as you claim you are in a recession-proof or niche market. Thus, you likely have few or no competitors driving your margins down to normal profits, so your decreased labor costs will increase your margin (and you are benefiting from an inefficient market, while you believe other Americans should suffer in a much more efficient labor market that will drive their price down to poverty). Slightly hypocritical, yes, but I'm sure a rudimentary knowledge of economics and an assuredness of your entry into heaven makes it easy for you to sleep at night.

My fellows have abandoned the joy of work for the evil of the lawsuit and the brutal regulatory arm of government.

Although my main concern is your "original lie," this one is quite more blatant. To claim that you will go to Mexico because of American regulation without at least performing a cursory search on Mexican regulation is quite telling. You don't need to look for excuses, your intent and reasoning in moving your force to Mexico is quite clear. To say something so ridiculous is only to insult the local readership.

So was I right when I suggested Mr. Potter?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Sure.



So here you are suggesting that minimum wage jobs are a way for you to determine skill and then you will release your treasure to them (I assume giving them higher wages).

You then suggested you were moving your labor to Mexico to escape lawyers, American bums, and brutal regulation. I responded with...



You don't really seem to argue this. In fact, you seem to embrace this accusation with the following line.



Which, of course, is implying that if you had to employ people at American minimum wages that I would have to pay more for my goods. So originally, you attacked minimum wage on the premise that it didn't allow you to try workers before you moved them to a higher wage by giving them your treasure. By this quote, you were frankly acknowledging that your real purpose is not to "try before you buy," but to keep costs down, which you don't do if you give away your treasure. I accused you of doing this in the subsequent posts regarding margins and you had no hesitation in proclaiming that you sought to increase margins and maximize profits.

Although from your posts in other threads, I would doubt you will be decreasing costs as you claim you are in a recession-proof or niche market. Thus, you likely have few or no competitors driving your margins down to normal profits, so your decreased labor costs will increase your margin (and you are benefiting from an inefficient market, while you believe other Americans should suffer in a much more efficient labor market that will drive their price down to poverty). Slightly hypocritical, yes, but I'm sure a rudimentary knowledge of economics and an assuredness of your entry into heaven makes it easy for you to sleep at night.



Although my main concern is your "original lie," this one is quite more blatant. To claim that you will go to Mexico because of American regulation without at least performing a cursory search on Mexican regulation is quite telling. You don't need to look for excuses, your intent and reasoning in moving your force to Mexico is quite clear. To say something so ridiculous is only to insult the local readership.

So was I right when I suggested Mr. Potter?

damn very nicely worded and spot on!!! But people like Avvocato Effetti are too stoopid and ignorant to take the high road and admit he was just busted for lying!
Instead people like Avvocato Effetti do not see there own lies as being lies.....

But that6s OKAY you totally owned him!!

 

[JS80]

Some good points, but you need more real world perspective and not just reading bunch of books.

There are many reason why wealth distribution is not even. some of the reason could be the lower earner lacks the upward mobility due too much power from "evil corporations".

In some countries, that could be the reason, but in US, that's not at all. I would say social and cultural issue cause income gap more so than the power wield by corporations.

Just ask yourself, what is more likely to cause someone to live in poverty in the US? Lack of good earning job or social issues like living in bad part of the neighborhood, having bad personal choices, and having irresponsible parents that didn't raise their kids properly?

I was an immigrants and didn't have access to many of government assistance program. But through my own personal choice, I got 2 advance degrees and was able to find pretty well paid jobs even as a non-citizen.

If you look at income gap by race, you'd find some interesting stats that I will not elaborate here.

What I want to point out here is minimum wage doesn't mean anything here in the US. It is some artificial number thrown out by politicians to gain political favors. In the US, you can live a very comfortable middle income life style if you make the right personal choices and have the right work attitude. Raise or reduce minimum wage won't do anything to income gap until someone pays attention to some of the social/cultural issues and solve problems in certain part of the cities, with certain racial groups and the culture with those racial groups.

Asian Americans get fucked from all sides yet we still end up being the most successful people in America. I want my fucking revolution! Down with everyone

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Banned

awe winnar's lastest account didn't last very long : (

 

[Genx87]

For something that affects less than 2% of the workforce. It sure does generate pages of debate.

 

[StageLeft]

Not that many people are on it and most of those who are are using it for drinking money or whatever .It's just honestly not a serious enough issue to impact the domestic economy to any substantial degree at this point. Very few rely on min to live and I am sure that removing it would have only a mild effect one way or the other.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

For something that affects less than 2% of the workforce. It sure does generate pages of debate.

Actually it affects more than that. Many union contracts/wages are based on min wage.

 

[Craig234]

For something that affects less than 2% of the workforce. It sure does generate pages of debate.

It affects a lot more than 2% of the workforce. Increases in the minimum wage affect low paid workers.

 

[Craig234]

awe winnar's lastest account didn't last very long : (

We don't know that do we? I haven't seen any statement why.

 

[JS80]

It affects a lot more than 2% of the workforce. Increases in the minimum wage affect low paid workers.

yup, it'll adversely affect them

 

[Genx87]

Actually it affects more than that. Many union contracts/wages are based on min wage.

I thought most Govt\Union wages were based on prevailing wage? I cant think of a single union or govt job that enters into the realm of min wage.

 

[sandorski]

For something that affects less than 2% of the workforce. It sure does generate pages of debate.

If that's the case, then why even propose removing it?

 

[Craig234]

yup, it'll adversely affect them

You posted a false myth. It'll raise their wages. No doubt you will reply to this repeatig the myth, because that's what you do, you can't be bothere to look up facts. Liberals like the min wage to hate the poor.

 

[Genx87]

It affects a lot more than 2% of the workforce. Increases in the minimum wage affect low paid workers.

On for the fact they will fall into min wage. I am sure if they moved the min wage to 100\hour nearly all of our workforce will fall into the fold. Give it a few years and people making 100 bucks will be the same people making 7.45 now.

It is really a zero sum game when you get done with it. I do think a min wage is required however to protect the bottom ring of a society.

It is just so funny to watch people fight over a wage that literally affects about 1.7% of the workforce. And 60% of those people are in the food service industry. In other words waiters and bar tenders working for tips. My sister works as a waitress for a local restaurant at night. She can pull down 200 bucks in tips a night. I bet if she worked 40 hours\week there she could make a nice yearly income. I am sure she appreciates you fighting to make her an extra 6 bucks a paycheck lol

 

[Craig234]

I thought most Govt\Union wages were based on prevailing wage? I cant think of a single union or govt job that enters into the realm of min wage.

If the min wage goes from $5 to $7, what do you think happens to the people who made $6?

 

[Genx87]

If that's the case, then why even propose removing it?

No idea, I have been asking the same question myself. As I said on the first page of this thread. This is the most overblown issue right behind the death tax.

 

[Genx87]

If the min wage goes from $5 to $7, what do you think happens to the people who made $6?

They make 7 bucks but so what? The people who made 7 now make 8.50 and so on and so forth. You think you can magically outpace inflation with a min wage? Good luck with that.