will removing minimum wage accelerate job growth?

[borosp1]

Not sure about your math. $5,000/yr over 25 years @ 9%/yr = just over $500,000. If one started in their 20's investing it would be well over $1.3 million.

I. I was giving a hypothetical example stating one cannot live of a lump sum if u retire @ age 65. Especially when how long people live has increased in the past 30 years.

II. I think your overstating retirement income by a lot:
--Using the following website: http://www.mycalculators.com/ca/401kcalcm.html
------------------------------------------------------
starting sal = 50K
annual salary increase = 2%
years = 25 years
Contribute 10% of Salary -Invested Every Two Weeks
Annual Interest Rate = 9% - Compounded Annually
Your contri @ retirement = $160,151.50 | Earnings @ Retirement = $359,855.30
------------------------------------------------------

III. Another issue with 401K is tied to stock market and the stock market is not a linear increase. It has up and down years. IE in 2008 a lot of people lost more than 50% of there 401K values. While those with pensions get consistent income for the rest of there lives.

 

[blackangst1]

I. I was giving a hypothetical example stating one cannot live of a lump sum if u retire @ age 65. Especially when how long people live has increased in the past 30 years.

II. I think your overstating retirement income by a lot:
--Using the following website: http://www.mycalculators.com/ca/401kcalcm.html
------------------------------------------------------
starting sal = 50K
annual salary increase = 2%
years = 25 years
Contribute 10% of Salary -Invested Every Two Weeks
Annual Interest Rate = 9% - Compounded Annually
Your contri @ retirement = $160,151.50 | Earnings @ Retirement = $359,855.30
------------------------------------------------------

III. Another issue with 401K is tied to stock market and the stock market is not a linear increase. It has up and down years. IE in 2008 a lot of people lost more than 50% of there 401K values. While those with pensions get consistent income for the rest of there lives.

uh, I did the math on an HP 20c (I used to do this for a living), as well as double checked http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm and here http://www.1728.com/compint.htm. Got the same result. Not sure what you did to figure it out. Are you compounding monthly?

Today, with $500,000 earning 6% and adjusting for inflation and collecting SS, you could have a $50,000/yr income until approx. age 83.

 

[Patranus]

Removing the minimum wage would easily accelerate job growth in the unskilled labor market and maybe something could actually be manufactured again in this country.

I would like to know who these 4 "Republicans" were on the panel.

 

[totalnoob]

Today, with $500,000 earning 6% and adjusting for inflation and collecting SS, you could have a $50,000/yr income until approx. age 83.

Unfortunately the fed cut rates to near 0% and the most you can possibly get in a guaranteed CD these days is 2%-ish

 

[blackangst1]

Unfortunately the fed cut rates to near 0% and the most you can possibly get in a guaranteed CD these days is 2%-ish

When did I say a CD? Anyone who has the bulk of their money in CD's deserves the loss of money they get. Rarely have CD's outpaced inflation. Theres a saying in the investment world: The only thing guaranteed about guaranteed savings vehicles is a guaranteed loss. Theres another saying too: you cant save your way to prosperity-you have to invest it.

 

[borosp1]

uh, I did the math on an HP 20c (I used to do this for a living), as well as double checked http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm and here http://www.1728.com/compint.htm. Got the same result. Not sure what you did to figure it out. Are you compounding monthly?

Today, with $500,000 earning 6% and adjusting for inflation and collecting SS, you could have a $50,000/yr income until approx. age 83.

Also I mentioned I do not believe people in there 20s and 30s will receive SS income by the time they retire. So living off a lump sum which you give the ideal scenario working 25 years straight (removing stock fluctuations and potential unemployment time) gives a potential return that for most might not be the case. I feel 401Ks that doesn't mention mutual funds in some cases have high expense ratios based on management fees eat away at potential profits and if the markets are losing accelerates your loses as fees need to be paid if ones returns is positive or negative.

 

[blackangst1]

Also I mentioned I do not believe people in there 20s and 30s will receive SS income by the time they retire. So living off a lump sum which you give the ideal scenario working 25 years straight (removing stock fluctuations and potential unemployment time) gives a potential return that for most might not be the case. I feel 401Ks that doesn't mention mutual funds in some cases have high expense ratios based on management fees eat away at potential profits and if the markets are losing accelerates your loses as fees need to be paid if ones returns is positive or negative.

25 years is pretty much on the low side. Most people work 40-50 years before they retire. If money management was actually taught in high school and people started saving when they started working, it is pretty easy to save at least a couple million in 40-50 years. When I was in the business the majority of my clients didnt start investing until their mid to late 30's and some not until their 40's. Thats no one's fault but their own.

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

Eliminate the minimum wage, the prevailing wage and capital gains taxes.

Watch this economy take off!

 

[spittledip]

Minimum wage acts as a protection against employers taking advantage of employees. If it is removed, we will have to rely on the goodness of company owners. If people are desperate enough, they will accept a low wage b/c it is either that or go on welfare/lose house etc. Minimum wage is barely livable in this country as it is. When my wife and I first moved back to the States, we were scraping by with me working temp jobs, etc. We had no frills at all, just bare necessities. I had to borrow money from a friend at one time just to make sure stuff got paid. So, people can go and say stuff about how you can make a pittance and still make ends meet... experience has taught me otherwise. If people are not given at least minimum wage, they will have it really hard. They can make it on minimum wage, but anything below that probably not. Unless they shack up together with a few other families like some immigrants do. Of course, with all the lost jobs and stuff, alot of people are having to move their families in together with other families to make ends meet.

 

[Hacp]

Eliminating the minimum wage is helpful but only to a certain extent. To get the economy really jumping, you need to lower all costs of doing business. Lowering costs will help attract more companies to the US to start their businesses which means more jobs. How do you lower costs? Reduce small and medium business taxes. Reduce income taxes, reduce government spending on social programs, and ease up on costly regulations and lawsuits.(also bust the unions).

Things that probably won't help the economy as much:
reducing capital gains tax.
Lower government spending on things like law enforcement.
Giving big corporations more power

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

Minimum wage acts as a protection against employers taking advantage of employees.

Some jobs should be paid very little or nothing. It is those jobs that are the entrance to the Company.

It is an opportunity for me (as a business owner) to view your talents and to give you an opportunity to prove to me you are committed.

It is only then that I will be willing to release more treasure into your hands.


When you use your government to force me to pay you a minimum wage, my response will be, I'm not interested. I have nothing for you nor will I give you an opportunity to join my organization.

How do you gain?

 

[Patranus]

Minimum wage acts as a protection against employers taking advantage of employees. If it is removed, we will have to rely on the goodness of company owners. If people are desperate enough, they will accept a low wage b/c it is either that or go on welfare/lose house etc. Minimum wage is barely livable in this country as it is. When my wife and I first moved back to the States, we were scraping by with me working temp jobs, etc. We had no frills at all, just bare necessities. I had to borrow money from a friend at one time just to make sure stuff got paid. So, people can go and say stuff about how you can make a pittance and still make ends meet... experience has taught me otherwise. If people are not given at least minimum wage, they will have it really hard. They can make it on minimum wage, but anything below that probably not. Unless they shack up together with a few other families like some immigrants do. Of course, with all the lost jobs and stuff, alot of people are having to move their families in together with other families to make ends meet.

The free market act as a protection against an employer taking advantage of employees.
The current minimum wage does nothing more but encourage employers to eliminate or outsource jobs.

 

[Hacp]

Minimum wage acts as a protection against employers taking advantage of employees. If it is removed, we will have to rely on the goodness of company owners. If people are desperate enough, they will accept a low wage b/c it is either that or go on welfare/lose house etc. Minimum wage is barely livable in this country as it is. When my wife and I first moved back to the States, we were scraping by with me working temp jobs, etc. We had no frills at all, just bare necessities. I had to borrow money from a friend at one time just to make sure stuff got paid. So, people can go and say stuff about how you can make a pittance and still make ends meet... experience has taught me otherwise. If people are not given at least minimum wage, they will have it really hard. They can make it on minimum wage, but anything below that probably not. Unless they shack up together with a few other families like some immigrants do. Of course, with all the lost jobs and stuff, alot of people are having to move their families in together with other families to make ends meet.

There are 2 billion people in the world that are willing to work for pennies. They are competing against us who pay 7 dollars an hour. If minimum wage persists, many of the low skill jobs(except ones like retail) will go away. In fact, it has already. For example, the garment industry is almost totally gone in the US.

 

[glenn1]

I was watching 'Forbes on Fox News' this past Saturday and all the panelist (4 out 5 republicans) said removing the minimum wage floor would lower the unemployment rate and that any job is better than no job. I find the argument ridicules as we know by history when you give someone a free reign they will take advantage by hiring the lowest common denominator of wages. Why would a business pay someone $7/hr if they can get away with paying $1/hr.

The biggest issue is that the rich run the Govt policies and its not representative of the people. If there are enough rich lobysist pushing to remove the floor minimum wage than someone (a republican) will propose a law calling it a jobs creation bill!

The sadist part in America is the growing disparity every year of the rich v.s poor. Rich keeping getting richer the poor and middle class keeping getting poorer as there wages do not grow as fast on a % vs the rich. As well the rich have tax advantages poor and middle class do not. Whenever you hear of a CEO making $1 per yr salary take that with a grain of salt as that same CEO makes more than likely many millions in Stock Options and dividend income. Dividends are taxed @15% while income that a majority of people pay taxes on is taxed at much higher rate. Extrapolate millions of dollars in dividend income taxed at only 15% vs. regular income tax rate and you see how rich keeping getting richer and everyone else is screwed.

You seem to think that modern day corporations are like something from Dickens, executives swimming in huge piles of gold coins while the workers are all like Tiny Tim begging "please Sir, may I have some more?"

And sure, $1/hour is not as good as $7, but is it better than zero? Making the minimum wage higher doesn't automatically increase the value I assign to your labor - if you price it outside of my willingness to pay, you won't get hired.

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

The current minimum wage does nothing more but encourage employers to eliminate or outsource jobs.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

 

[Cogman]

The free market act as a protection against an employer taking advantage of employees.
The current minimum wage does nothing more but encourage employers to eliminate or outsource jobs.

Not only that, but it causes significant inflation, always has, always will.

Why is it barely livable on minimum salary? Because it is the minimum. I'm sorry, but if you are earning the bare minimum and expect a house, car, and to be able to take care of children + a tv, internet, and all other niceties, you are nuts. And if you think making the minimum even higher will somehow make those things more affordable at the minimum, your are more crazy then can be reasoned with.

If you can't afford to live on minimum wage you have 4 choices.
1. get a second job.
2. Get a better job. (or develop the skills to get a better job)
3. go into debt.
4. live on less.

I don't recommend the 3rd. but the other 3 could all be done in tandom. Chances are, if you are ambitious enough to get and work a second job, you probably won't be earning minimum wage for too long.

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus
The current minimum wage does nothing more but encourage employers to eliminate or outsource jobs.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

So how come you two America haters are still here in the U.S.?

 

[Cogman]

So how come you two America haters are still here in the U.S.?

I don't see the connection. What is "american" about a minimum wage?

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

So how come you two America haters are still here in the U.S.?

Go back to a previous thread and re read what America is and why I love her.

BTW, what's going on with your site. I tried to register a month ago with no response.

Not good for business, son.

You need a master like me to show you how to grow that thing into a powerhouse.

Not responding to customers is bad, very bad. :thumbsdown:

 

[borosp1]

You seem to think that modern day corporations are like something from Dickens, executives swimming in huge piles of gold coins while the workers are all like Tiny Tim begging "please Sir, may I have some more?"

And sure, $1/hour is not as good as $7, but is it better than zero? Making the minimum wage higher doesn't automatically increase the value I assign to your labor - if you price it outside of my willingness to pay, you won't get hired.

I think you misunderstood my point. Executives and upper management at most corporations has had there wages and most importantly bonus and other financial reward mechanisms increase exponentially over the past 30 years while the middle class or lower class wage worker relies on wages and cost of living increases which do no match increase in wealth distribution of the upper wage earners on percentage over time.

Trickle down economics works in a theory but not in practice. So paying 7 workers $1/hr is better than paying 1 working $7/hr when all seven cannot survive making $1/hr? But I guess in terms of business there is moral equivalence as the only thing that matters is increasing revenue over time.

Someone who is allowed to pay labor @ $1 hr is equivalent to modern day slave labor. Walmart if allowed would pay all there workers below minumum wage, but because there such a behometh they have there hourly wage a little above minumum wage to appease the public perception of not taking advantage of workers. What people fail to see is a company like walmart for all the jobs they create forces an equal amount of small businesses within the vacinity to go out of business and that lose causes and equal amount of job loss as job creation by Walmart.

 

[dmcowen674]

Go back to a previous thread and re read what America is and why I love her.

BTW, what's going on with your site. I tried to register a month ago with no response.

Not good for business, son.

You need a master like me to show you how to grow that thing into a powerhouse.

Not responding to customers is bad, very bad. :thumbsdown:

Que? It's a User registered site. You mistype your own E-mail?

 

[Avvocato Effetti]

Que? It's a User registered site. You mistype your own E-mail?

I'll try it again. That said, I would suggest you make it mistake proof.

 

[dmcowen674]

I don't see the connection.

What is "american" about a minimum wage?

Would it be "American" without one?

Let me guess you would pay your employees 25 cents an hour to compete with China?

 

[Cogman]

I think you misunderstood my point. Executives and upper management at most corporations has had there wages and most importantly bonus and other financial reward mechanisms increase exponentially over the past 30 years while the middle class or lower class wage worker relies on wages and cost of living increases which do no match increase in wealth distribution of the upper wage earners on percentage over time.

Trickle down economics works in a theory but not in practice. So paying 7 workers $1/hr is better than paying 1 working $7/hr when all seven cannot survive making $1/hr? But I guess in terms of business there is moral equivalence as the only thing that matters is increasing revenue over time.

Someone who is allowed to pay labor @ $1 hr is equivalent to modern day slave labor. Walmart if allowed would pay all there workers below minumum wage, but because there such a behometh they have there hourly wage a little above minumum wage to appease the public perception of not taking advantage of workers. What people fail to see is a company like walmart for all the jobs they create forces an equal amount of small businesses within the vacinity to go out of business and that lose causes and equal amount of job loss as job creation by Walmart.

So, making walmart pay more on employees will allow small businesses to compete.. Ahhh, no.

Walmart is competitive because it has a large goods/employee cost ratio. A small business just can't compete with that. Just one employee for the small business already sets them up to have to pay higher prices then what walmart would have to list. For walmart, they could probably hire 1000 employes, right now, and it would have pretty much no effect on their goods price.

No minimum means that the small business owner has to spend less on employees which means that they could potentially sell goods at a lower price, thus making them more competitive to walmart.

 

[Craig234]

In an unhealthy society, you have an economy based on impoverished masses. In a healthy society, you have a strong middle class.

You can always 'stimulate unemployment' by lowering compensation. Lower it some more. Lower it some more. All the way down until you reach 100% employment in a system with slavery.

It's not worth lowering. On the other hand, you take a short term hit on employment by increasing compensation. That compensation becomes increased spending and fuels more work and paves the way to the healthy strong middle class. There are built-in ceilings to this, people can't paid more than there is to pay them.

The right, whose core agenda whether the folllowers know it or not is 'impoverish the masses for the benefit of the rich', are always going to exploit a situation like high uneployment (from their policies) to push this.