Will Democrats Learn Or Are We Doomed to Keep Repeating Partisan Tradeoff Elections?

[zinfamous]

Nor can you even say that you "won the popular vote"... because.... guess what? We weren't PLAYING the popular vote you dolt. Insinuating that the same results would occur if we DID play the popular vote is 100% asinine and can only come from the mouth of someone that needs mental help.

Of all the dumb nonsense points you make, this is an entirely new one.

From what void of retardation, currently undefined by science, did you pull this crackerjack collection of words?

 

[mect]

I think we need more and better data before we can draw any conclusions from this election. One problem with Maher's arguments is that common sense is so unreliable. Everyone thinks they have common sense. So whose common sense do you use?

Based on preliminary data, it doesn't appear that being too far left is the issue. It looks like more progressive candidates faired better, even in swing districts, than did centrist dem candidates. It certainly looks like outside of California, progressive ballot initiatives performed better than democratic candidates.

 

[ivwshane]

I agree the election is not the popular vote, that was literally the point of my post! It is once again absolutely hilarious to me that you say things this stupid all the time and yet constantly call other people dumb.

I think you might need to face up to reality - you are not a very smart person. I don't even primarily mean this as an insult or a joke, you just constantly say really dumb things and I don't think you can help it because you just lack the capacity to do better.



Of course you can say who won the popular vote, it's a fact that anyone with access to a computer can look up! I didn't say anything about what results would happen in some alternate reality if Republicans had to win the majority of the vote, you just made that up in your head, most likely because you need mental help, hahaha.

Personally I think it would be GREAT if Republicans had to win a majority of the vote because then their policies would be less insane!

I don't think he's capable of understanding just how dumb he is.
When talking about appealing to people it absolutely makes sense to talk about the popular vote as an example of what messaging a majority of the people agree with. You certainly wouldn't claim the electoral college is who Republicans or Democrats should be targeting their messaging to.

Once people realize that Democrats overwhelmingly get the most votes the obvious question then would be; if Democrats get the most votes then why don't they have more control of the government? From there, then we can then have a real discussion about the structural challenges Democrats have to overcome.

My previous post talked about messaging but it was in response to why Democrats don't appeal to even more voters.

Democrats can win either by reaching more voters or by changing the system. I think both are necessary.

 

[HomerJS]

I agree that a powerful message for Democrats would be to remind voters that the last two popular Democratic presidents were demonized as socialists and that these were lies.

As for the fiscal responsibility thing I see little evidence that voters actually give a shit about fiscal responsibility. All the Democrats should do on this front is lie like the Republicans do and say all their policies will cut the debt. People might argue that this is ridiculous but the Republicans have literally argued that cutting government revenues will reduce the debt for decades now and nobody seems to care about that.

I tried to make this point in another thread. There are only 9 self defined socialists yet the brand every Democrat as a socialist which is now a pejorative.

Why shouldn't Democrats label every Republican as racist? There are far more racists in the Republican Party then Socialists in the Democratic Party. Even if it isn't true about a given Republican just lie like Republicans do.

 

[ivwshane]

I tried to make this point in another thread. There are only 9 self defined socialists yet the brand every Democrat as a socialist which is now a pejorative.

Why shouldn't Democrats label every Republican as racist? There are far more racists in the Republican Party then Socialists in the Democratic Party. Even if it isn't true about a given Republican just lie like Republicans do.

Because Republicans have already countered that narrative with, "the real racists are the people calling others racists".

 

[HomerJS]

Also Republicans are great at holding onto power when they get it. How do we have issues people favor 80-20% but never get enacted? Just ask you closest corrupt Republican politician.

 

[dainthomas]

Losing the popular vote but winning the election also isn't something new in our history.

It used to never happen (or very very rarely). Now it's the normal state of things. Republican presidential candidates haven't gotten the most votes for four straight elections now, and it shows no signs of slowing down. That doesn't worry them at all?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The problem with mahers opinion, which ironically he even talked about earlier in the show, is that he seems to think twitter/tweets are representative of how Democrats feel. Tweets aren't people, stop equating the two.


Messaging is important but it's not what you say or how you say it that matters, it's repetition of the message. This should be blatantly obvious just by looking at the GOP and its history. If dems want to win in even bigger numbers they have to do the same thing the right has been doing for decades, demonize the right as anti American and keep repeating their policy ideas often and all over the country. Republicans have controlled the narrative for so long that we get idiots like the OP and Maher falling for the rights narrative without even realizing it.

That's precisely Maher's point. The majority of people don't think and don't care about Twitter Tweets of moronic teenagers.

So why is Kamala going into speeches and declaring her gender pronouns? Why are they referring to things like LatinX in their speeches? All of these are things mostly used by a small amount of morons that can be best summed up as "The Twitter Crowd" - So WHY are politicians and their campaigns mentioning these moronic things in their public speeches, advertisements, social media, etc?

 

[fskimospy]

It used to never happen (or very very rarely). Now it's the normal state of things. Republican presidential candidates haven't gotten the most votes for four straight elections now, and it shows no signs of slowing down. That doesn't worry them at all?

Republicans have gotten the most votes for president exactly once in the last eight elections.

 

[fskimospy]

It's kind of funny that this thread is inherently about criticizing the electoral strategy of the people who won and promoting the strategy of the people who lost.

 

[woolfe9998]

I agree that a powerful message for Democrats would be to remind voters that the last two popular Democratic presidents were demonized as socialists and that these were lies.

As for the fiscal responsibility thing I see little evidence that voters actually give a shit about fiscal responsibility. All the Democrats should do on this front is lie like the Republicans do and say all their policies will cut the debt. People might argue that this is ridiculous but the Republicans have literally argued that cutting government revenues will reduce the debt for decades now and nobody seems to care about that.

The point about fiscal responsibility isn't really about fiscal responsibility, though. It's just another thing to remind voters that they can't trust republicans. And pointing out that past democrats haven't been the radical commies they claimed them to be isn't just about countering the GOP's branding of us; it's also, again, about branding them for what they are: liars.

This branding needs to be aimed at the entire GOP. Not just the person of Trump. It can be framed, initially, in the context of how they are behaving in this election cycle where their candidate is, for the time being, corruptly refusing to leave office. But it goes back long before that. There is tons of ammunition, and it can usually be delivered in short sound bites, without extensive history lessons.

If the democrats have to go on the defensive about "socialism" and "defunding the police," the repugs should have to go on the defensive about their own shit. Disavow the corruption of Donald Trump. Disavow the lies of your own political party. And risk losing your base, or else lose the center. Take advantage of the fact that Trump still has a dedicated base in their party but is broadly unpopular, and likely to be even more so by the time he leaves office. Confront the electorate over the total corruption of the GOP, and force GOP candidates to choose.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The point about fiscal responsibility isn't really about fiscal responsibility, though. It's just another thing to remind voters that they can't trust republicans. And pointing out that past democrats haven't been the radical commies they claimed them to be isn't just about countering the GOP's branding of us; it's also, again, about branding them for what they are: liars.

This branding needs to be aimed at the entire GOP. Not just the person of Trump. It can be framed, initially, in the context of how they are behaving in this election cycle where their candidate is, for the time being, corruptly refusing to leave office. But it goes back long before that. There is tons of ammunition, and it can usually be delivered in short sound bites, without extensive history lessons.

If the democrats have to go on the defensive about "socialism" and "defunding the police," the repugs should have to go on the defensive about their own shit. Disavow the corruption of Donald Trump. Disavow the lies of your own political party. And risk losing your base, or else lose the center. Take advantage of the fact that Trump still has a dedicated base in their party but is broadly unpopular, and likely to be even more so by the time he leaves office. Confront the electorate over the total corruption of the GOP, and force GOP candidates to choose.

the problem is brandolini's law - it's easy to spew bullshit. successfully refuting that is orders of magnitude more difficult. hell, that basically explains our current situation. "we want universal healthcare". "OMG SOCIALISM!"

 

[HomerJS]

Democrats want to build
Republicans want to destroy.

Which do you think is easier?

Mahar's monologue, while true is a problem. It isn't THE problem.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Democrats want to build
Republicans want to destroy.

Which do you think is easier?

Mahar's monologue, while true is a problem. It isn't THE problem.

Then continue enjoying your loss of elections. If you don't take heed to these valid issues of why everyone turns their nose up to the Democratic party - then there is no question. Republicans will take the house in 2022 - and the presidency again in 2024.

 

[woolfe9998]

the problem is brandolini's law - it's easy to spew bullshit. successfully refuting that is orders of magnitude more difficult. hell, that basically explains our current situation. "we want universal healthcare". "OMG SOCIALISM!"

It's not really about countering bullshit so much as applying the label "bullshitter" in the same way the they are applying the label "socialist." This isn't about playing defense so much as it's about playing offense.

While this distinction may not seem important, it is, because it affects who is being put on the defensive. Democrats need to not be on the defensive all the time.

Much of this can be done with simple soundbites, and constantly repeating the overarching theme, which is that people shouldn't vote for republicans because they can't be trusted. Because republicans lie. Repeat it often enough and it will stick. Just like "socialism."

 

[mikeymikec]

This thread is making me wonder if I walked into a parallel universe where Trump won the 2020 election.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Of all the dumb nonsense points you make, this is an entirely new one.

From what void of retardation, currently undefined by science, did you pull this crackerjack collection of words?

What are you failing to understanding?

Regardless of how much people are told to "get out there and vote" the number of people who will show up to vote is undoubtedly determined in part by the fact that they live in a "red state" or "blue state" - in addition to a wide variety of other factors that would change if the vote type changed

So declaring that you "won" the popular vote - when the popular vote wasn't the game that was being played... Is just simply moronic to the core.

 

[fskimospy]

What are you failing to understanding?

Regardless of how much people are told to "get out there and vote" the number of people who will show up to vote is undoubtedly determined in part by the fact that they live in a "red state" or "blue state" - in addition to a wide variety of other factors that would change if

So declaring that you "won" the popular vote - when the popular vote wasn't the game that was being played... Is just simply moronic to the core.

So people stating objective reality is moronic to you.

This does explain a lot about why you make so many stupid posts, haha.

 

[woolfe9998]

This thread is making me wonder if I walked into a parallel universe where Trump won the 2020 election.

Trump lost the election, but dems did badly down ballot and that is going to make it very tough for Biden to be effective. Which in turn will affect both the 2022 midterms and possibly, 2024. Dems need to retool immediately.

 

[MrSquished]

The Dems get criticized for the amount they use identity politics and I agree some of that criticism is warranted. The Repubs use identity politics as well, just they use that of white christian identity politics so that's ok. That's the playing field we got and so we have to use it.

Harp on bread and butter economic, infrastructure and healthcare issues and avoid stupidity like Defund the Police. The problem is, even Joe Biden's healthcare plan gets attacked as evil socialist, and people buy it. His infrastructure plan, because it includes some energy policy, gets trashed as unAmerican.

 

[HomerJS]

That's precisely Maher's point. The majority of people don't think and don't care about Twitter Tweets of moronic teenagers.

So why is Kamala going into speeches and declaring her gender pronouns? Why are they referring to things like LatinX in their speeches? All of these are things mostly used by a small amount of morons that can be best summed up as "The Twitter Crowd" - So WHY are politicians and their campaigns mentioning these moronic things in their public speeches, advertisements, social media, etc?

By moronic teenager are you including Trump? Imagine the mindset of people who think it's acceptable behavior from a President of the United States

 

[SMOGZINN]

The Dems get criticized for the amount they use identity politics and I agree some of that criticism is warranted. The Repubs use identity politics as well, just they use that of white christian identity politics so that's ok. That's the playing field we got and so we have to use it.

Harp on bread and butter economic, infrastructure and healthcare issues and avoid stupidity like Defund the Police. The problem is, even Joe Biden's healthcare plan gets attacked as evil socialist, and people buy it. His infrastructure plan, because it includes some energy policy, gets trashed as unAmerican.

The real problem is that if you stick to topics that matter like healthcare, economy, and infrastructure people will say you are boring and tune you out. To get people to listen you MUST talk about things they identify with. Modern campaigning is basically just trying to make the candidate look like they identify with as many people as possible while alienating the minimum possible. There is nothing left of our political system but identity politics, because people literally don't care enough about the things that matter to go vote over them, but they will get out there and vote over something they identify with.

 

[Roger Wilco]

IMO batshit media is the bigger story here. When it comes to conjuring scurrilous bullshit 24/7, the far right media seemingly dominates the left. "News" sources like Breitbart, OAN, The Federalist, Zerohedge, Newsmax, etc, appear to be way more effective at pandering to the hyper-gullible conspiracy facebook soldiers we all have to endure.

 

[dank69]

Then continue enjoying your loss of elections. If you don't take heed to these valid issues of why everyone turns their nose up to the Democratic party - then there is no question. Republicans will take the house in 2022 - and the presidency again in 2024.

Everyone turns up their noses to the Democrats because they have been thoroughly conditioned to do so at a subconscious level. If LatinX was not a thing, you would be right here complaining about something else.

 

[dank69]

IMO batshit media is the bigger story here. When it comes to conjuring scurrilous bullshit 24/7, the far right media seemingly dominates the left. "News" sources like Breitbart, OAN, The Federalist, Zerohedge, Newsmax, etc, appear to be way more effective at pandering to the hyper-gullible conspiracy facebook soldiers we all have to endure.

It's a lot easier when you don't even have to pretend to be unbiased or pretend to care about truth or accuracy.