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Will Democrats Learn Or Are We Doomed to Keep Repeating Partisan Tradeoff Elections?

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SMOGZINN said:
The real problem is that if you stick to topics that matter like healthcare, economy, and infrastructure people will say you are boring and tune you out. To get people to listen you MUST talk about things they identify with. Modern campaigning is basically just trying to make the candidate look like they identify with as many people as possible while alienating the minimum possible. There is nothing left of our political system but identity politics, because people literally don't care enough about the things that matter to go vote over them, but they will get out there and vote over something they identify with.
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The real problem is that republicans run almost exclusively on white identity politics, but white people like white identity politics! I mean think about it, what was the last substantive proposal republicans ran on that wasn’t identity politics based?

Exactly.

White identity politics are unpopular, but they are popular enough that when combined with a system rigged in their favor Republicans can run with them and win.
 
mikeymikec said:
This thread is making me wonder if I walked into a parallel universe where Trump won the 2020 election.
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And Biden didn’t just win, he CRUSHED Trump by margins not seen in almost a century. But because Democrats didn’t sustain the historically huge margins they won by in 2018 people are acting like they lost.

Guys, the Democrats won. By a lot. If you want to talk about how they can win by even more that’s fine, but a more productive conversation might be what we as citizens can do to fix the rigged system.
 
The other thing this does not take into account is literally how much the Republican party is able to lie to their base vs what the Dems can do. It's not even on the same level. How do you compete with a totally brainwashed group of ignoramuses that are trained like seals?
 
mect said:
I think we need more and better data before we can draw any conclusions from this election. One problem with Maher's arguments is that common sense is so unreliable. Everyone thinks they have common sense. So whose common sense do you use?

Based on preliminary data, it doesn't appear that being too far left is the issue. It looks like more progressive candidates faired better, even in swing districts, than did centrist dem candidates. It certainly looks like outside of California, progressive ballot initiatives performed better than democratic candidates.
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Pub lite never works.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Trump lost the election, but dems did badly down ballot and that is going to make it very tough for Biden to be effective. Which in turn will affect both the 2022 midterms and possibly, 2024. Dems need to retool immediately.
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And they will start with electing the same crony establishments that you all know and love.

Fun fact - Did you know that between Mitch McConnel, Nancy Pelosi, and Joe Biden - Joe Biden is actually the youngest of the 3? I guess that gives him some hope heh.
 
MrSquished said:
The Dems get criticized for the amount they use identity politics and I agree some of that criticism is warranted. The Repubs use identity politics as well, just they use that of white christian identity politics so that's ok. That's the playing field we got and so we have to use it.

Harp on bread and butter economic, infrastructure and healthcare issues and avoid stupidity like Defund the Police. The problem is, even Joe Biden's healthcare plan gets attacked as evil socialist, and people buy it. His infrastructure plan, because it includes some energy policy, gets trashed as unAmerican.
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Republicans if anything have shown they don't care about the purity test and identity politics. Trump can grab em' by the pussy and Christians still say - thats our guy.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
What are you failing to understanding?

Regardless of how much people are told to "get out there and vote" the number of people who will show up to vote is undoubtedly determined in part by the fact that they live in a "red state" or "blue state" - in addition to a wide variety of other factors that would change if the vote type changed

So declaring that you "won" the popular vote - when the popular vote wasn't the game that was being played... Is just simply moronic to the core.
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the popular vote was won because it was, and because it exists, it can be won, and it can be lost.

That is an undeniable truth of objective reality.

You pretending it isn't, or proposing one of your patented D- arguments that you probably still don't think you deserve from your "college" days, doesn't change that fact.

Republicans are universally unpopular in this country. The vote share proves that. Even when they lose popular votes (outside of the EC), they still win elections. That is more observable truth that you can't pretend doesn't exist. The more you continue to ignore the objective fact of what fskimposy is telling you about vote share in determining elections, and pretend that this baseless argument that you have pulled from your ass is worth ignoring the fact that elections in the US are quite literally rigged, the more we will continue to ridicule you. It is because you are very stupid. You have no real interest in understanding the problem, because you repeatedly ignore the well-known problem with our system, and invent your own out of whole cloth simply to defend your narcissistic whingings.

again, a roundly proven moron trying to wax intelligently on the IQ of others is quite hilarious. Please continue.
 
zinfamous said:
the popular vote was won because it was, and because it exists, it can be one.

That is an undeniable truth of objective reality.

You pretending it isn't, or proposing one of your panted D- arguments that you probably still don't think you deserve from your "college" days, doesn't change that fact.
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The popular vote wasn't the point of measurement you dolt.

That's like doing a marathon run around a track - but then declaring at the end "Yeah, but I won the first lap!". The first lap wasn't what everyone was shooting for - they were shooting for overall stamina and not how fast they ran to begin with. Thats the equivalency of your argument right now - we didn't do a popular vote - we did an electorate vote by state.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Republicans if anything have shown they don't care about the purity test and identity politics. Trump can grab em' by the pussy and Christians still say - thats our guy.
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lol that you think that isn't identiy politics.

seriously, how fucking stupid are you? Do you have some personal definition of "identity politics" that literally no one else subscribes to?

remember how you like to pretend the rest of the world thinks that "blacks or minorities can't be racist!" so that you can stupidly argue against that point? It's hilarious when you do that--but here you are literally suggesting that republican white identity can't be playing "identity politics," because "republicans don't play identity politics!"

That is literally the sum-total of Trump's support, and you fucking don't get it. You have to be one of the biggest fucking clowns on these boards, so I hope you understand that we're really just laughing at you, because we know you won't listen to a single fucking nugget of truth as it crashes against your personal wall of retard narcissism.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
The popular vote wasn't the point of measurement you dolt.

That's like doing a marathon run around a track - but then declaring at the end "Yeah, but I won the first lap!". The first lap wasn't what everyone was shooting for - they were shooting for overall stamina and not how fast they ran to begin with. Thats the equivalency of your argument right now - we didn't do a popular vote - we did an electorate vote by state.
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The popular vote exists. They won the popular vote. It exists.

You said it doesn't. You are a complete idiot.
 
Maybe dems need to start encouraging people from California to make a mass exodus to Idaho, Wyoming, and Mondan
s0me0nesmind1 said:
The popular vote wasn't the point of measurement you dolt.

That's like doing a marathon run around a track - but then declaring at the end "Yeah, but I won the first lap!". The first lap wasn't what everyone was shooting for - they were shooting for overall stamina and not how fast they ran to begin with. Thats the equivalency of your argument right now - we didn't do a popular vote - we did an electorate vote by state.
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No, not using the popular vote is like requiring one runner to run 3 laps and another to run four. Sure, you can say those are the rules, but any competent thinker can recognize the rules are biased.
 
MrSquished said:
avoid stupidity like Defund the Police.
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But which democratic candidates ran on 'defund the police'??
Maher's speech is confusing; idiots on twitter are insignificant and silly, but also loud enough to sway millions of people to vote GOP? Which is it?
I agree dems do a shitty job of winning considering how nuts the opposition is. But I also don't know if this is the answer. I don't think gender/trans or whatever issues affect anyone outside of religious GOP nuts anyway. The only thing that might have an effect I think would be the "defund" stuff, I agree it's an awful message.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Republicans if anything have shown they don't care about the purity test and identity politics. Trump can grab em' by the pussy and Christians still say - thats our guy.
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To say that the party that uses the term RINO doesn't have a purity test is just silly. It's just that purity test doesn't exclude pussy grabbers.
And those conservative Christians say, that's our guy, because of their conservative Christian identity politics.
How has it not occurred to you that you've been using identity throughout this thread to describe conservatives, Republicans, and Christians? Those are all ways in which people identify politically.
So you're not actually condemning Democrats for engaging in identity politics. You're condemning them for engaging in what you consider to the wrong identity politics.
 
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SMOGZINN said:
they will get out there and vote over something they identify with.
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I'll have to try to find it, but remember reading a paper which studied voters/voter behavior and it found that the majority of people find which candidate they like most or identify with, then transpose their own beliefs and policies onto that candidate! So yes, talking about issues is stupid and will win you nothing. No doubt all political strategist know this.
 
The biggest issue facing the Dems is how good the republicans are at spreading propaganda and using divisive fear tactics. Look how worked up the OP is over people using the word Latinx. Look how slowbuck spent months fearing ANTIFA, brandon still thinks Joe has dementia, PCG hid under his bead from MS13 and OFT bought into the hunter BS . The OP has been proven wrong in almost every thread and people like him are the real problem.
 
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fskimospy said:
And Biden didn’t just win, he CRUSHED Trump by margins not seen in almost a century. But because Democrats didn’t sustain the historically huge margins they won by in 2018 people are acting like they lost.

Guys, the Democrats won. By a lot. If you want to talk about how they can win by even more that’s fine, but a more productive conversation might be what we as citizens can do to fix the rigged system.
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Cant believe you said this right after saying elections are rigged FOR the GOP.

lol
 
obidamnkenobi said:
But which democratic candidates ran on 'defund the police'??
Maher's speech is confusing; idiots on twitter are insignificant and silly, but also loud enough to sway millions of people to vote GOP? Which is it?
I agree dems do a shitty job of winning considering how nuts the opposition is. But I also don't know if this is the answer. I don't think gender/trans or whatever issues affect anyone outside of religious GOP nuts anyway. The only thing that might have an effect I think would be the "defund" stuff, I agree it's an awful message.
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I feel like trans issues affect me...
 
obidamnkenobi said:
But which democratic candidates ran on 'defund the police'??
Maher's speech is confusing; idiots on twitter are insignificant and silly, but also loud enough to sway millions of people to vote GOP? Which is it?
I agree dems do a shitty job of winning considering how nuts the opposition is. But I also don't know if this is the answer. I don't think gender/trans or whatever issues affect anyone outside of religious GOP nuts anyway. The only thing that might have an effect I think would be the "defund" stuff, I agree it's an awful message.
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No dem candidate ran on defunding the police but it did gain traction among some progressive activists, got amplified by the media, picked up by Republicans and campaigned on effectively. Dems have to learn how to counter such messaging. It's an uphill battle because Republicans lie so much more and their base is more ignorant - but progressives can't shoot themselves in the foot with dumb slogans because we need to know the game better.
 
nakedfrog said:
I feel like trans issues affect me...
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In the political sense. My point was most people agree with trans rights, and/or don't care. The people vocally opposed to it are religious idiots who will never change their mind anyway. So I don't think it hurts democrats to talk about it, and obviously expanding rights for trans people
 
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