Wii U bust

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cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I think the Wii U will pickup once the real games start appearing. That just didn't happen and the system is more expensive than the original Wii. The people who had Wiis collecting dust sure weren't going to buy into the Wii U that's for sure.

I believe that after the initial hype wears off the next Xbox and PS4 will have similar troubles. Aside from perhaps low supply, there will no doubt be somewhat of a drout before the next big releases and sales will drop.

As for E3, Nintendo decided to forgo the key note speech. Year after year they waste time with stock and sales projections, recapping last year's sales and whatever. They have no new hardware to show. They are going to have smaller events focused on their new games. This was mentioned in the various articles I saw on other sites. They aren't dropping out of E3, but rather trying to wow people with games instead of bore them with people in suits talking about how many 3Ds systems they sold. To me it appears they want to separate the business news which has seemingly been what the E3 press conference was about, from the news about games and trying to get people excited for games.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/25/no-nintendo-press-conference-at-e3-2013
"Unlike previous years, we will not have a large-scale [E3] presentation directed to everyone in the world,” Iwata said according to the translation. “Instead, we are planning several smaller events focusing on software for America. Among these hands-on events will be one for American distributors and another for western media.”
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,638
6,522
126
Also



Comparing it to the virtual boy? Lol. The Wii U sold more than the 360 in the same period, despite the lackluster library and lack of graphical improvements. It just needs some time to gain traction. Again, just like the 3DS (which also outsold the DS in the same period).

that doesn't say anything about them cutting out of e3 due to the expense and clutter as you claimed.

are you saying that the wii-u sold more at launch than the 360 did during that same time frame? or that the wii-u sold more at launch than the 360 did at launch?

any new console at launch selling a lot isn't a surprise at all. but the fact that they were easy to find a week or less after launch, on the shelves, is a telling tale in it's own. 360, ps3, and wii were impossible to find on store shelves for months after launch.

the thing about it needing time to gain traction is that there is NOTHING in the pipline for wii-u that is "system selling", unless you want to argue a new mario game or zelda game is system selling, which i agree is. but i'm talking also about 3rd party support. as the ps3 and 360 were 1/2 year into their life cycle, there were at least a few decent 3rd party games to purchase for the console. it just seems like there is nothing in development for the wii-u worthwhile.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,638
6,522
126
I think the Wii U will pickup once the real games start appearing. That just didn't happen and the system is more expensive than the original Wii. The people who had Wiis collecting dust sure weren't going to buy into the Wii U that's for sure.

I believe that after the initial hype wears off the next Xbox and PS4 will have similar troubles. Aside from perhaps low supply, there will no doubt be somewhat of a drout before the next big releases and sales will drop.

As for E3, Nintendo decided to forgo the key note speech. Year after year they waste time with stock and sales projections, recapping last year's sales and whatever. They have no new hardware to show. They are going to have smaller events focused on their new games. This was mentioned in the various articles I saw on other sites. They aren't dropping out of E3, but rather trying to wow people with games instead of bore them with people in suits talking about how many 3Ds systems they sold.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/25/no-nintendo-press-conference-at-e3-2013

it's still lame as hell. nintendo would also show off a bunch of games while talking about numbers. just like sony and ms. i'm not sure why you guys are trying to act as though any of the conferences were different.

all of them tout numbers and show off new games and hardware. sony and ms had many years they had no new hardware to show off, yet they still had a keynote.

nintendo is simply in trouble because they have no numbers to show off, since the wii-u is selling like crap, and they have no games to show off, since there isn't much on the horizon. i mean i can't blame them for not going up there i guess since they literally have nothing to show off it seems.

as a gamer it juts sucks cause i love all the hype of e3 around all 3 console makers, and i love the discussions that go on before and after the keynote speeches for all 3 of them. this year we'll only have 2 consoles to talk about.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
that doesn't say anything about them cutting out of e3 due to the expense and clutter as you claimed.

are you saying that the wii-u sold more at launch than the 360 did during that same time frame? or that the wii-u sold more at launch than the 360 did at launch?

any new console at launch selling a lot isn't a surprise at all. but the fact that they were easy to find a week or less after launch, on the shelves, is a telling tale in it's own. 360, ps3, and wii were impossible to find on store shelves for months after launch.

the thing about it needing time to gain traction is that there is NOTHING in the pipline for wii-u that is "system selling", unless you want to argue a new mario game or zelda game is system selling, which i agree is. but i'm talking also about 3rd party support. as the ps3 and 360 were 1/2 year into their life cycle, there were at least a few decent 3rd party games to purchase for the console. it just seems like there is nothing in development for the wii-u worthwhile.

I'll be perfectly honest. The system sellers for the Xbox are 1st party games. Why? Because when it comes to 3rd party games, largely they are available on PC or PS3 or both. Halo is not, Gears of War is not, Forza is not etc. Similarly Sony has it's own 1st and 2nd party lineup that doesn't appear anywhere. Third party games, which for the most part appear everywhere else, don't really make people buy a specific system.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
it's still lame as hell. nintendo would also show off a bunch of games while talking about numbers. just like sony and ms. i'm not sure why you guys are trying to act as though any of the conferences were different.

all of them tout numbers and show off new games and hardware. sony and ms had many years they had no new hardware to show off, yet they still had a keynote.

nintendo is simply in trouble because they have no numbers to show off, since the wii-u is selling like crap, and they have no games to show off, since there isn't much on the horizon. i mean i can't blame them for not going up there i guess since they literally have nothing to show off it seems.

as a gamer it juts sucks cause i love all the hype of e3 around all 3 console makers, and i love the discussions that go on before and after the keynote speeches for all 3 of them. this year we'll only have 2 consoles to talk about.

Not at all, you think that way because you have the mentality of Nintendo being in trouble. They want people focused on games, not sales. That's really it.

They have games to show off. They said Mario Kart, Smash Bros, and other titles will be playable there.

To be frank, I hate E3 anyway. Inflated hype machine for stuff you won't see for over a year in the store. What I prefer is when they have their own press conference, live streamed. Like SOny did for the PS4 announcement, and Nintendo Directs. It seems more personal and feels more like they are reaching out to gamers and developers. E3 just feels like chest thumping and who can have the best booth. I wonder if I'm the only one.
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Dang are those accurate specs for the XBox Next? Sad if so.

:rolleyes:

Silly MHz counters.

How quickly some people forget Sony's bluster for the last two generations about how their systems were supercomputers, when real world capabilities were on par with the 360.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,638
6,522
126
Not at all, you think that way because you have the mentality of Nintendo being in trouble. They want people focused on games, not sales. That's really it.

They have games to show off. They said Mario Kart, Smash Bros, and other titles will be playable there.

To be frank, I hate E3 anyway. Inflated hype machine for stuff you won't see for over a year in the store. What I prefer is when they have their own press conference, live streamed. Like SOny did for the PS4 announcement, and Nintendo Directs. It seems more personal and feels more like they are reaching out to gamers and developers. E3 just feels like chest thumping and who can have the best booth. I wonder if I'm the only one.

lol if they were so focused on software, how come the past decade they would tout for 1/2 of their keynote that they print money and sell the most consoles out of anyone else?
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,638
6,522
126
I'll be perfectly honest. The system sellers for the Xbox are 1st party games. Why? Because when it comes to 3rd party games, largely they are available on PC or PS3 or both. Halo is not, Gears of War is not, Forza is not etc. Similarly Sony has it's own 1st and 2nd party lineup that doesn't appear anywhere. Third party games, which for the most part appear everywhere else, don't really make people buy a specific system.

http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/

if what you are saying was the case, then why are the majority of the top selling games on 360 multiplatform games?

i personally think the online-gaming aspect is what makes xbox360 so successful.

i do agree about ps3 having the better 1st party support.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
lol if they were so focused on software, how come the past decade they would tout for 1/2 of their keynote that they print money and sell the most consoles out of anyone else?

Cause the keynote is run by people in suits. They seem to want to step away from that this year. I'm fine with it.

http://www.vgchartz.com/platform/7/xbox-360/

if what you are saying was the case, then why are the majority of the top selling games on 360 multiplatform games?

i personally think the online-gaming aspect is what makes xbox360 so successful.

i do agree about ps3 having the better 1st party support.

The problem with that is, you don't know if people have purchased those games because they own an xbox or they bought an xbox to play those games.

My money would be on Buying an Xbox for Halo, Gears, or Forza. Then hopping online with CoD and other titles.

CoD is one of those titles that people have bought because everyone else was buying it so it seemed like the game to get. Just to hop in with others they know. If everyone was getting it for PS3 they'd probably get it for that instead. Many people have had the Xbox 360 for a long time now and there was no way to predict what titles would release. So I don't think those people, who have had a 360 for 4 years bought it just to play CoD every year. Something else was the draw.
 
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Dacalo

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2000
8,778
4
76
In my opinion all this unraveled with the release of original 3DS. After it busted, Nintendo allocated all their energy trying to revive it, which included price cuts, marketing, and developing games. All while trying to prepare for the launch of the Wii U. As a result, Wii U shipped with less than stellar support from Nintendo; lack of ads, lack of games, and shitty OS. I think the 3DS fiasco set Nintendo back a good 6-12 months. Look at the delay on Pikmin and The Wonderful 101. 3DS meanwhile, is finally coming into fruition due to all the effort.

Honestly, I don't think Nintendo will gain a significant market share until they drop the price to around $250 with a solid library games. The marketing doesn't even exist.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
In my opinion all this unraveled with the release of original 3DS. After it busted, Nintendo allocated all their energy trying to revive it, which included price cuts, marketing, and developing games. All while trying to prepare for the launch of the Wii U. As a result, Wii U shipped with less than stellar support from Nintendo; lack of ads, lack of games, and shitty OS. I think the 3DS fiasco set Nintendo back a good 6-12 months. Look at the delay on Pikmin and The Wonderful 101. 3DS meanwhile, is finally coming into fruition due to all the effort.

Honestly, I don't think Nintendo will gain a significant market share until they drop the price to around $250 with a solid library games. The marketing doesn't even exist.

I think they want a couple key pieces of software available first. Then evaluate where they are. The price is too high for casuals who bought the Wii. Core gamers, the ones who would buy Smash Bros and Zelda would pay $300 for the console. It just needs the software.
 

Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
11,449
264
126
:rolleyes:

Silly MHz counters.

How quickly some people forget Sony's bluster for the last two generations about how their systems were supercomputers, when real world capabilities were on par with the 360.

How did I forget? One thing can be equally as sad as another.
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,774
0
76
The technology is outpacing the industry and they are all making poor decisions.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,638
6,522
126
Cause the keynote is run by people in suits. They seem to want to step away from that this year. I'm fine with it.



The problem with that is, you don't know if people have purchased those games because they own an xbox or they bought an xbox to play those games.

My money would be on Buying an Xbox for Halo, Gears, or Forza. Then hopping online with CoD and other titles.

CoD is one of those titles that people have bought because everyone else was buying it so it seemed like the game to get. Just to hop in with others they know. If everyone was getting it for PS3 they'd probably get it for that instead. Many people have had the Xbox 360 for a long time now and there was no way to predict what titles would release. So I don't think those people, who have had a 360 for 4 years bought it just to play CoD every year. Something else was the draw.

you made the claim that the first party games are the reason people buy an xbox360, yet don't have any proof to back it up, then i link you to a list of the top selling games on 360 that show more than 1/2 of the top selling games are 3rd party, then you make the claim that i don't know why they purchased the console?

well you got one thing, we both don't know either way, but at least i have some kind of data to back my claim. just look at how many of the top 20 selling games on 360 are focused on online multiplayer to keep the replay value high. it's 75%. i think that is a pretty telling portion that online multiplayer is a huge selling point for the 360.

now go take a look at the ps3 top 20 selling games. much more single player focused games are the top sellers.

now go look at the top selling wii games. every single game is nintendo first party except dance games.

nintendo simply has jack shit to show this year or else they would have a keynote to hype up the wii-u because it is obvious to everyone that the system is doing terrible. if a system was doing terrible, wouldn't you want to show stuff to make people want to buy it, at the #1 (by far) video game conference in the world?
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
2
0
The technology is outpacing the industry and they are all making poor decisions.


All?
I think Microsoft and Sony just have differnt plans/stratagies.....

Im not sure I can defende nintendos decision makeing though.
I think its in part the "wii remote" effect, where the controller in some way enchances gameplay and makes their consol stand out.

The problem is just, it wasnt well thought out.


Wii = nunchuk :

Cool as f*** if your a kid. Who doesnt like that.
They watch Ninja turtles and probably like the name and concept design.

Their small and light (which matters if your designing for kids)
and easy to use with small hands.

Their intuitive to use.

Wii U's tablet controller just doesnt have any of that.

To me the tablet thing just comes off as gimmicky for the sake of being a gimmick
(nintendo needed a new gimmick).

The wii had a refreshing concept (nunchuks where out before Microsoft copied with kinect),
and it was fun swinging your arms around as you played games, the motions added immersion.


Tablets? not so much.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
So they've sold 3.5 million Wii Us ? Not too shabby.

Come Christmas, when the Wii U costs $200 and has 20 good games, they'll sell lots more than the $500 Windows 8 xbox and the $700 PS4.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
you made the claim that the first party games are the reason people buy an xbox360, yet don't have any proof to back it up, then i link you to a list of the top selling games on 360 that show more than 1/2 of the top selling games are 3rd party, then you make the claim that i don't know why they purchased the console?

well you got one thing, we both don't know either way, but at least i have some kind of data to back my claim. just look at how many of the top 20 selling games on 360 are focused on online multiplayer to keep the replay value high. it's 75%. i think that is a pretty telling portion that online multiplayer is a huge selling point for the 360.

now go take a look at the ps3 top 20 selling games. much more single player focused games are the top sellers.

now go look at the top selling wii games. every single game is nintendo first party except dance games.

nintendo simply has jack shit to show this year or else they would have a keynote to hype up the wii-u because it is obvious to everyone that the system is doing terrible. if a system was doing terrible, wouldn't you want to show stuff to make people want to buy it, at the #1 (by far) video game conference in the world?

Did they buy the game just cause everyone else was? Probably Did they buy an Xbox 360 simply for those games? NO....not likely

Nintendo has stuff to show. They WILL be at E3...or do you not bother to read any news just headlines? They are doing two different conferences. One for American distributors and one for Western media (IGN, Game Informer etc etc) They will be showing their new software, playable. This has been known for a while now by internet standards. I read something about them showing playable Smash Bros and Mario Kart a couple weeks ago. The only thing Nintendo is NOT doing is the big keynote speech. They don't need to...the places you read about Nintendo not doing a keynote speech are the same exact places you will have every piece of info and media from the booths and the special presentations they are doing on the side. It's not like they won't even show up, they WILL be there. There is absolutely no reason to have guys in suits talking about sales and hardware crap. They are doing presentations related to the games, and the media will be there just the same.

All?
I think Microsoft and Sony just have differnt plans/stratagies.....

Im not sure I can defende nintendos decision makeing though.
I think its in part the "wii remote" effect, where the controller in some way enchances gameplay and makes their consol stand out.

The problem is just, it wasnt well thought out.


Wii = nunchuk :

Cool as f*** if your a kid. Who doesnt like that.
They watch Ninja turtles and probably like the name and concept design.

Their small and light (which matters if your designing for kids)
and easy to use with small hands.

Their intuitive to use.

Wii U's tablet controller just doesnt have any of that.

To me the tablet thing just comes off as gimmicky for the sake of being a gimmick
(nintendo needed a new gimmick).

The wii had a refreshing concept (nunchuks where out before Microsoft copied with kinect),
and it was fun swinging your arms around as you played games, the motions added immersion.


Tablets? not so much.

Motion doesn't add immersion, it just allows developers to put waggle in the game and think it'll sell. Here's a hint...the games didn't sell. Only first party titles really did well.

The tablet is well done in the games that make use of it for more than simply a second screen. Maps, inventory, talking through it as if you are on a phone. All stuff that adds something new and different to the game. I'd rather glance down at a map on the gamepad and use it as a gps than to completely pause the game and shift to a menu option for the map personally. It might be a gimmick to some, but it is well used by some titles.
 
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zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
So they've sold 3.5 million Wii Us ? Not too shabby.

Come Christmas, when the Wii U costs $200 and has 20 good games, they'll sell lots more than the $500 Windows 8 xbox and the $700 PS4.

I don't see 20 good games coming out this year for it.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
So they've sold 3.5 million Wii Us ? Not too shabby.

Come Christmas, when the Wii U costs $200 and has 20 good games, they'll sell lots more than the $500 Windows 8 xbox and the $700 PS4.
Yeah, this post doesn't make you look like a complete moron at all.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I don't see 20 good games coming out this year for it.

Pikmin 3
Zelda Windwaker Remake
Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag
Batman Arkham Origins
Watch Dogs
Rayman Legends
Bayonetta 2
Splinter Cell Blacklist
Lego Marvel Super Heroes
Super Luigi U (DLC for NSMBU)
Earthbound/Super Metroid/Super Mario World on virtual console (old but good titles)
Lego City Undercover (already out)
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (already out)
Mario Kart (confirmed for 2013)
They also expect to be able to ship Super Smash Bros before the end of the fiscal year
Wonderful 101 doesn't have a date, maybe know more around E3

not quite 20 but even discounting the virtual console titles, I count 15 potentially depending on whether a couple get pushed back. Many will be available on other systems, nothing was said about exclusives.

I don't see a price drop yet and I don't see a PS4 being more than ~$500
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
but does it really offer any big advantage compared to the new super mario bros from the Wii? I don't think so.

I thought the tablet gamepad added an element to it that was surprisingly good. The person manning the touchscreen has to place blocks in an attempt to save the other players from falling into holes in addition to stunning enemies and finding secret stashes of extra lives. It was a riot actually. Nintendoland makes great use of the tablet/pad as well. Stuff like the Luigi's mansion minigame demonstrates that the concept has some potential if only game makers will bother to take advantage of it. The problem is that I fear Nintendo is asking too much of 3rd party developers in expecting them to do the extra work required to properly implement what the Wii U can offer. They can make basically the same game for the Xbox and PS4, but they have to do what seems like extensive modifications to the control scheme, menu system, and/or display elements to effectively use the tablet pad, and all that would be for a system with a dubious customer base. This puts Nintendo in the position of being the afterthought console, where developers create games primarily for the Xbox and playstation before tacking on some poorly thought out Wii pad functionality and pushing a Wii product out the door that is inferior to the other console versions in every way.
 
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Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
46
91
Pikmin 3
Zelda Windwaker Remake
Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag
Batman Arkham Origins
Watch Dogs
Rayman Legends
Bayonetta 2
Splinter Cell Blacklist
Lego Marvel Super Heroes
Super Luigi U (DLC for NSMBU)
Earthbound/Super Metroid/Super Mario World on virtual console (old but good titles)
Lego City Undercover (already out)
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate (already out)
Mario Kart (confirmed for 2013)
They also expect to be able to ship Super Smash Bros before the end of the fiscal year
Wonderful 101 doesn't have a date, maybe know more around E3

not quite 20 but even discounting the virtual console titles, I count 15 potentially depending on whether a couple get pushed back. Many will be available on other systems, nothing was said about exclusives.

I don't see a price drop yet and I don't see a PS4 being more than ~$500

That's still quite a disappointing list overall for a YEAR'S worth of software, and Tom's original statement looks wildly off base.
This is just my opinion, but I think 3rd party, multiplatform titles are misleading, since they RARELY ever include anything to play to the more powerful/newer console's strengths. In other words, it's no real incentive for folks already with a PS3 or Xbox 360, saving their pennies for PS4 and Xbox8.

What you're left with then, is:

Zelda WW remake
Mario Kart

...maybe SSB.

I think it's a stretch to include DLC for a year old game and VC releases of 25 year old games.

Granted, games like Batman and Watchdogs will likely be awesome, but IMHO, not system sellers.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
That's still quite a disappointing list overall for a YEAR'S worth of software, and Tom's original statement looks wildly off base.
This is just my opinion, but I think 3rd party, multiplatform titles are misleading, since they RARELY ever include anything to play to the more powerful/newer console's strengths. In other words, it's no real incentive for folks already with a PS3 or Xbox 360, saving their pennies for PS4 and Xbox8.

What you're left with then, is:

Zelda WW remake
Mario Kart

...maybe SSB.

I think it's a stretch to include DLC for a year old game and VC releases of 25 year old games.

Granted, games like Batman and Watchdogs will likely be awesome, but IMHO, not system sellers.

None of these games except Watch Dogs is confirmed for PS4 or the new xbox.

Also Bayonetta 2 is exclusive

Watch Dogs will be one of the best games released this year. However, that to me is really a PC game.

It's also not a years worth... it's all slated for 2013 and it's already the end of April so 7 months.
I thought the tablet gamepad added an element to it that was surprisingly good. The person manning the touchscreen has to place blocks in an attempt to save the other players from falling into holes in addition to stunning enemies and finding secret stashes of extra lives. It was a riot actually. Nintendoland makes great use of the tablet/pad as well. Stuff like the Luigi's mansion minigame demonstrates that the concept has some potential if only game makers will bother to take advantage of it. The problem is that I fear Nintendo is asking too much of 3rd party developers in expecting them to do the extra work required to properly implement what the Wii U can offer. They can make basically the same game for the Xbox and PS4, but they have to do what seems like extensive modifications to the control scheme, menu system, and/or display elements to effectively use the tablet pad, and all that would be for a system with a dubious customer base. This puts Nintendo in the position of being the afterthought console, where developers create games primarily for the Xbox and playstation before tacking on some poorly thought out Wii pad functionality and pushing a Wii product out the door that is inferior to the other console versions in every way.

This is sadly true. Potential is there though.
 
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Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
46
91
It's also not a years worth... it's all slated for 2013 and it's already the end of April so 7 months.

I meant it will be a year's worth by the end of 2013.

If this is really the best that we'll see by then, that is indeed for a year's time.
 
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