Why would a car suddenly fishtail on a curve?

[jtvang125]

It was early morning with clear and dry weather. I was following a Chevy HHR and as it was 1/3 of the way through the curve it fishtailed with its rear sliding out to the right (curve was turning to left). It wasn't going that fast, maybe 50-55 mph at the most. I've taken this curve numerous times at 65-70 with no problems and my car is a boat. Driver overcorrected a few times but fortunately was able to regain control without spinning out.

So could it have been driver error or just plain poor handling of the car?

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Ice, crappy tires, yanked on the e-brake, driver's an idiot, all of the above...

 

[ElFenix]

i was going along a dry road that's almost straight when a guy ahead of me decided to lose control of his accord, swerve left and right overcorrecting each time, finally eating it into a light pole. i think what happened was that he was in the right lane coming up on slower moving traffic, got into the middle lane to go around, suddenly realized a car was in that middle lane, and tried to panic stop.

 

[c3p0]

If the road was dry and he didn't blow out a tire, then he probably fell a sleep at the wheel. Or he could have been drunk or high on drugs. The list goes on!!!

c3p0

 

[hiromizu]

probably hit a bump or something

 

[Possessed Freak]

Emergency maneuver of some kind? LOOK OUT, RABBIT!!!

 

[bigal40]

Wait, he tried to turn an American car going 55mph - there's the problem everyone knows to slow them down to 15mph before turning.

 

[CurseTheSky]

VTEC kicked in, yo.

 

[wiretap]

After having several Chevrolet vehicles including a new camaro, I've found they all suck at handling and what you're experiencing is fairly normal, especially if you hit a little bump when turning.

 

[KMc]

After having several Chevrolet vehicles including a new camaro, I've found they all suck at handling and what you're experiencing is fairly normal, especially if you hit a little bump when turning.

I'm sorry, but your analysis is far too technical and specific for us to comprehend. Could you possibly generalize your conclusion a bit more so we can understand? Maybe you meant "all vehicle makes beginning with the letter C" or "all cars made in america"?

 

[NutBucket]

What was the temperature outside?

And what about the last time you took the curve at your stated speed?

 

[ViviTheMage]

VTEC kicked in, yo.

Now that's funny, haha

 

[wiretap]

I'm sorry, but your analysis is far too technical and specific for us to comprehend. Could you possibly generalize your conclusion a bit more so we can understand? Maybe you meant "all vehicle makes beginning with the letter C" or "all cars made in america"?

The Corvette is the only good handling Chevrolet I've driven. The rest all feel the same with a floaty rear end.

 

[Arkaign]

The Corvette is the only good handling Chevrolet I've driven. The rest all feel the same with a floaty rear end.

The Cobalt SS handles really good, but it still feels like you're sitting in a Cadavalier

EDIT : The HHR is a steaming pile of dog shit, and that's being generous.

 

[wiretap]

The Cobalt SS handles really good, but it still feels like you're sitting in a Cadavalier

I test drove one around a road course at an event two years ago and the stock suspension is still floaty in the rear end. Not only that, but you slide out of the seats when you take a corner because the bolsters aren't big enough by the shoulders. I won't even get into the fwd understeer issue..

 

[yh125d]

I won't even get into the fwd understeer issue..

You say that like it's a Chevrolet issue

 

[wiretap]

You say that like it's a Chevrolet issue

That's why I said I won't go into it, and I mentioned front wheel drive instead. The post I was quoting specifically pointed out the Cobalt like it was somehow different and more awesome/above the others. The stock suspension is still floaty in the rear. Drive one on a track and you'll see what I mean when you take some fast corners or slalom.

 

[exdeath]

Suddenly with no change in driver input? No brake, throttle, change of turning radius? Turning at the limit and hitting alternating patches of wet/dry pavement can upset the balance in a hurry.

Given that it's an HHR and the demographic that vehicle is popular with, I think he gave it a bit too much gas or downshifted without rev matching, chickened out at the last second and tapped the brakes, or something similar.

Any sudden change of anything when the tires are loaded will result in loss of traction. That's why it's best when you start sliding like that to do nothing but maintain your current inputs and slowly reduce your speed and not do anything sudden; just let it ride out. Most people go into a turn too fast and hear tires squealing and freak out when they are really perfectly fine and in no danger of losing control, and it's their freaking out and hitting the brake or letting off the throttle too fast that gets them in trouble and sends them ass first into a ditch.

The safest thing to do if you are going to take a corner too fast is commit to it; changing your mind mid turn will have you calling a tow truck. I've had my nose heavy RWD car going through a 270 degree off ramp with the tires squealing at 70 mph with guard rails within arms length of both windows. The mouth of the exit was wide and inviting, so I blipped the throttle and downshifted and maintained highway speed for some spirited weekend driving. But 1/4 way through it got narrow and radius suddenly sharpened hard left. Stupid on my part since I'd never taken that ramp before. Yeah it's scary as hell and my eyes got the size of dinner plates, but calm and patience will keep you from wrecking your car more than the brake pedal will. Resist the urge the hit the brakes

 

[Arkaign]

That's why I said I won't go into it, and I mentioned front wheel drive instead. The post I was quoting specifically pointed out the Cobalt like it was somehow different and more awesome/above the others. The stock suspension is still floaty in the rear. Drive one on a track and you'll see what I mean when you take some fast corners or slalom.

That would mean something, but the Cobalt SS absolutely SMOKES some serious RWD competition on the track. I personally don't like FF layout, but you can't say the Cobalt SS doesn't have some serious handling chops.

 

[jlee]

That's why I said I won't go into it, and I mentioned front wheel drive instead. The post I was quoting specifically pointed out the Cobalt like it was somehow different and more awesome/above the others. The stock suspension is still floaty in the rear. Drive one on a track and you'll see what I mean when you take some fast corners or slalom.

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/645...rbo-bows-8-22-min-on-nrburgring-ef/index.html

Nurburgring times:

8:09 - Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg, sport tires, suspension modification (sport auto 08/02)
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS (Sport Auto 10/97)
8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR prototype, 280 PS/40.8 kgf·m/1420 kg, Takayuki Kinoshita (Best Motoring International video "Carrera Invasion")
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 hp version) [citation needed]
8:13 - BMW M5 E60, 507 PS (sport auto 12/04)
8:13 - Ferrari 355 GTB (Sport Auto 10/1994)
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2 [citation needed]

8:22 - Chevy Cobalt SS 2008 2.0 Turbo (Source GM)

8:22 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R32, 280 PS/36 kgf·m/1430 kg, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best Motoring - Video Special DVD Series [The R32 GT-R])
8:22 - BMW M3 E46, 343 PS/1584 kg (sport auto 12/00)
8:22 - BMW M Coupe E36/7, 321 PS/1445 kg (sport auto 10/98)
8:22 - Mercedes CLK 63 AMG (fastest AMG test engineer)
8:24 - Subaru Impreza WRX STI, sport tires (Sport Auto 05/04)
8:25 - Jaguar XKR (Sport Auto)
8:25 - Porsche Cayman S (Sport Auto)
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 hp [citation needed]
8:24 - Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/99)
8:25 - Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VII, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/02)
8:26 - BMW 335i E92 Coupe, 306 hp (Sport Auto)
8:26 - Nissan 350Z (Sport Auto 10/03)
8:28 - Porsche 911 Carrera (993) (Sport Auto 07/97)
8:28 - BMW M5 E39 (previous model), 400 hp [citation needed]
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S (Sport Auto 12/99)
8.34 - BMW Sauber F1.06 Formula One car, Nick Heidfeld, April 28 2007[1]
8:35 - BMW M3 E36 Coupe, 321 hp [citation needed]
8:36 - Opel Astra OPC, 240 PS/1355 kg, Manuel Reuter (mfr., Oct 2005), sport compact record holder
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG [citation needed]
8:38 - Honda NSX (sport auto, 08/97)
8:39 - MazdaSpeed 3 Mark Ticehurst
8:39 - Honda S2000 (sport auto 01/00)
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic, 344 PS/1505 kg (sport auto 07/97) (Crash involving civilian later in the lap)
8:42 - Audi S4 265 hp [citation needed]
8:42 - Lotus Exige, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/00)
8:47 - Honda Civic Type-R (Sport Auto 11/01)
8:48 - Opel Corsa OPC, 192 HP/1203 kg, Manuel Reuter, supermini record
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe [citation needed]

You were saying?

 

[IcePickFreak]

Wait, was the guy driving an HHR on the street or a Cobalt SS around the Nurburgring?

 

[daw123]

*snip*

Nurburgring times:

8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR prototype, 280 PS/40.8 kgf·m/1420 kg, Takayuki Kinoshita (Best Motoring International video "Carrera Invasion")

*snip*

Wow, the Lancer did well when you compare it to some of the other cars on that list.

 

[Arkaign]

Wow, the Lancer did well when you compare it to some of the other cars on that list.

Suspiciously so, when compared to other Evo times. Probably a combo of higher than stock boost and/or racing tires.

 

[SparkyJJO]

After having several Chevrolet vehicles including a new camaro, I've found they all suck at handling and what you're experiencing is fairly normal, especially if you hit a little bump when turning.

Generalizations suck and are generally wrong.

Even my 11 year old Camaro "which is only for straight lines" so say so many people does decently around turns without breaking traction, live rear axle, not very grippy tires, and all.

More likely the reason for the guy's issue in the HHR was most likely driver error than anything else, not because it is a Chevy

 

[zerocool84]

That's why I said I won't go into it, and I mentioned front wheel drive instead. The post I was quoting specifically pointed out the Cobalt like it was somehow different and more awesome/above the others. The stock suspension is still floaty in the rear. Drive one on a track and you'll see what I mean when you take some fast corners or slalom.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Fleabag's cousin???