Why wasn't the LHC built in the US?

[Ichinisan]

bullshit, they're experts on science:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAaDVOd2sRQ

What's wrong with that one? CO2 is demonized and called "toxic" when it's basically the stuff of life. EPA wants to regulate it so they can regulate *us*.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cesSRfXqS1Q#t=1m20s

 

[dmcowen674]

The US did however upgrade Fermilab's Tevatron

Dude, Fermilab was shut down, I know because I live 15 minutes from it.

I was just on Campus for a weather seminar.

 

[LightRider]

I visited the SCSC while it was being built. We took a class field trip to one of the sensor facilities. I had a poster of it on my wall as a kid. I was excited about science.

Then the politicians decided to kill off intellectual curiosity in this country.

 

[alkemyst]

US is too hard to build anything like this in. Time to clip our lawyers a bit.


the phrase here is NIMBY!

 

[amdhunter]

Because small-minded Conservatives wouldn't want their precious beliefs threatened by a so-called "God" particle.

Why is it even called that?

 

[zinfamous]

Instead, it was built in Europe. Seems like we're ceding our title, assuming we had it in the first place, of most technologically advanced country in the world when we allow such things to happen.

:\

http://www.damninteresting.com/americas-discarded-superconducting-supercollider/

It was being built in the US, but Congress pulled the plug on the funding after the USSR collapsed. (This was Texas/NM/Arizona, I think?)

The tunnels are still there, deep underground.

(seriously--congress was truly convinced that it was a worthwhile project simply because it could potentially lead to some super weapon to defeat the Rooskies. The project managers were eventually cajoled into playing along with such silly questions during congressional hearing regarding the funding. "Um, yeah--I suppose there is a potential that this could lead to...." "There, he said it! here's another pile of money!")

Fermi lab near Chicago was the largest up until CERN went online.

 

[Born2bwire]

Dude, Fermilab was shut down, I know because I live 15 minutes from it.

I was just on Campus for a weather seminar.

Jesus Christ, do you actually bother to read or are you just trying to find something to make you look smart? Fermilab shutdown in the late 90's to add the main injector and other upgrades to the line. When they started up the run again in the early 2000's, that was during the time that CERN shutdown to upgrade to the LHC. In terms of the science, as long as one of these is running we can get a good continual output of data that can be analyzed. The two accelerators, for quite a long time, have roughly complimented each other as the process of expanding and ratcheting up the lines take years during which the other accelerator is generally doing the hallmark research.

The question should be, what does the US specifically lose by not having the LHC? The US, and the world at large, still benefits from the results just like CERN benefited when it was the US that found particles like the top quark. The US still helped fund the LHC (along with a great many other nations) and the US helped build and staff it (many of the magnets were built at Fermilab not to mention contributions from other labs). The US also has several other accelerators in places like Argonne, Lincoln Labs, Berkely, Brookhaven, Stanford, etc. that are active and run experiments for US scientists and institutions. I don't think that in the specific case of having the LHC in the US or in Europe that it matters too much. It seems that it is more of a prestige issue than a scientific one.

 

[chusteczka]

It is often inefficient to buy into each generation of a product. If we already have one, we tend not to purchase the next until there is significant improvement. We wait for two or three levels of improvement before it seems cost-efficient.

Most people tend to wait 4-12 years between car purchases since there is no need to purchase a 2012 if you already own a 2011 or 2010.

Same thing with video cards and processors, I need at least two stages of improvement before rationalizing the need to upgrade.

We already have the Fermilab Accelerator, with plans to help design the next generation accelerator/collider.

http://www.fnal.gov/faw/future/fermilabs-future.shtml

The next-generation particle collider

In collaboration with industry and DOE national laboratories, Fermilab is developing superconducting acceleration technologies. These SRF technologies have future proton and electron beam applications, including Project X and next-generation energy-frontier particle colliders. Scientists are developing proposals for several future colliders, including the International Linear Collider and a muon collider (see animation). Discoveries at CERN's LHC will soon determine which direction will best advance energy-frontier research. Beyond 2015, U.S. scientists will continue to make crucial contributions to the CMS experiment at the LHC thanks to Fermilab's Grid Computing Center and LHC Remote Operations Center.

Also, by geographically separating the research centers, the scientific community allows greater exposure to research opportunities for a larger number of people, while simultaneously distributing operation, control, and funding.

 

[CrackRabbit]

You frequent P&N, Shirley you have to remember the debate a few years ago when Bush decided to close down Femilab in Chicago and let the Europeans gain all Science dominance.

Yes, I do, and don't call me Shirley.

 

[PottedMeat]

^^ Yup, the superconducting super collider was cancelled due to politics.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider#Comparison_to_the_Large_Hadron_Collider

i think i'd rather have the SSC than the ISS. could always send up automated labs and such. but why the hell would they put in waxahachie?

with 14 miles of tunnels that place would be an awesome lair/meth lab/grow op/bunker.

 

[Gibsons]

i think i'd rather have the SSC than the ISS. could always send up automated labs and such. but why the hell would they put in waxahachie?

with 14 miles of tunnels that place would be an awesome lair/meth lab/grow op/bunker.

I agree about SSC>ISS. The science output of the ISS is very low.

As for Waxahachie, land is fairly cheap, it's flat and not too rocky. The real reason is probably that the Texas lobby beat out other lobbies.

 

[Gibsons]

oh just saw this

 

[AMCRambler]

Because we're broke.

 

[shortylickens]

I love how Europeans love shitting on us cuz we spend half our money in the DoD, but have absolutely no problem asking to borrow it on a regular basis.

 

[0roo0roo]

Because we're broke.

no, we're stupid. we have kick starter funds that raise 200,000 a day because some bus monitor lady was "bullied", or some stupid feminist rant on game characters documentary gets 100k+ as well, the moneys out there, just being thrown away.

 

[disappoint]

Because the scientists' proposal for the SSC made no mention of the "god particle". Oh they mentioned the higgs boson, but that's not as catchy as the "god particle".

All those huge cathedrals, churches and scientology lairs throughout history didn't get their funding by proposing to do any of that weird sciency like stuff. Yo.

 

[allisolm]

Dude, Fermilab was shut down, I know because I live 15 minutes from it.

I don't think the Fermilab knows it was shut down.

http://www.fnal.gov/

 

[disappoint]

Dude, Fermilab was shut down, I know because I live 15 minutes from it.

I was just on Campus for a weather seminar.

I don't think the Fermilab knows it was shut down.

http://www.fnal.gov/

Dude, dmcowen was shut down, I know because I live 15 ms from the internet.

 

[JimmiG]

If it can't be used to make warheads, the US is not interested.

 

[Kadarin]

There's a partially built one in Texas, but it was cancelled because it wasn't known what immediate application it would have.

We're talking about the same Texas that wants to eliminate critical thinking from its educational curriculum because it interferes with "fixed belief systems" and "parental authority"?

This country's future is no longer looking very bright.

 

[BladeVenom]

We're talking about the same Texas that wants to eliminate critical thinking from its educational curriculum because it interferes with "fixed belief systems" and "parental authority"?

Texas didn't want the project cancelled. It was being built in their state.

 

[Wreckem]

We were in the middle of a recession and the project was poorly funded and likely to go well over its original budget.

The final house vote on closing it was bipartisan at 332-81. The majority of those voting against shutting it down had districts with financial/economic ties to it. Most were also republican.

 

[jman19]

bullshit, they're experts on science:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAaDVOd2sRQ

So dumb it hurts. A total nutter who just spews ignorance.

 

[LTC8K6]

You can't build anything like that in the US without a 10 year impact study and settling 45 separate lawsuits.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Instead, it was built in Europe. Seems like we're ceding our title, assuming we had it in the first place, of most technologically advanced country in the world when we allow such things to happen.

:\

Ask Bill Clinton. His belief that the USA should no longer be responsible for basic science research during his campaign was the death throws for Physics in the United States.

My junior class (of about 28) all had plans on going into graduate school for Physics, but after that political decision 1 (one) continued on and the rest gave up. Even my graduate coordinator told me the chances of someone graduating with a PhD in Physics of getting a research/university job in 56-10 years and he laughed.

BTW, this was the University of Florida and not some place like Stanford, MIT, etc., but the facts were simple and many folks already in the field began to worry about their futures. Go research SSC in Texas.