Why there's no such thing as "Reverse Racism"

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I cut and pasted a very good article that demonstrates some powerful points on the nonsensical claim of reverse racism.

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Tim Wise just wrote a great diary on right wing racism. As usual, though, in the comments some folks started claiming that white folks could be the victims of "racism" too. Even though I thought, from Tim's article, that the impossibility of that was clear, it's a point that's very hard to get across.

Coincidentally, an ex-student of mine wrote to me last night and asked me to remind her of my explanation of the impossibility of "Reverse Racism" -- she's in an M.A. program and found herself in a heated argument with some of her peers. So I wrote it down for her and sent it off. I thought, though, that it might be a useful document to post on DailyKos, so here it is...

Tim Wise just wrote a great diary on right wing racism. As usual, though, in the comments some folks started claiming that white folks could be the victims of "racism" too. Even though I thought, from Tim's article, that the impossibility of that was clear, it's a point that's very hard to get across.

Coincidentally, an ex-student of mine wrote to me last night and asked me to remind her of my explanation of the impossibility of "Reverse Racism" -- she's in an M.A. program and found herself in a heated argument with some of her peers. So I wrote it down for her and sent it off. I thought, though, that it might be a useful document to post on DailyKos, so here it is...

In any discussion of racism and it's alleged "Reverse," it's crucial to start with the definitions of prejudice and discrimination, to lay the foundation for understanding racism in context. There's a reason these three terms exist, and a very good reason not to conflate them, as I'll demonstrate below.

Prejudice is an irrational feeling of dislike for a person or group of persons, usually based on stereotype. Virtually everyone feels some sort of prejudice, whether it's for an ethnic group, or for a religious group, or for a type of person like blondes or fat people or tall people. The important thing is they just don't like them -- in short, prejudice is a feeling, a belief. You can be prejudiced, but still be a fair person if you're careful not to act on your irrational dislike.

Discrimination takes place the moment a person acts on prejudice. This describes those moments when one individual decides not to give another individual a job because of, say, their race or their religious orientation. Or even because of their looks (there's a lot of hiring discrimination against "unattractive" women, for example). You can discriminate, individually, against any person or group, if you're in a position of power over the person you want to discriminate against. White people can discriminate against black people, and black people can discriminate against white people if, for example, one is the interviewer and the other is the person being interviewed.

Racism, however, describes patterns of discrimination that are institutionalized as "normal" throughout an entire culture. It's based on an ideological belief that one "race" is somehow better than another "race". It's not one person discriminating at this point, but a whole population operating in a social structure that actually makes it difficult for a person not to discriminate.

A clear cut example is a slave-holding culture: people are born into a society where one sort of person is "naturally" a master, and another sort of person is "naturally" a slave (and sometimes not considered a person at all, but a beast of burden). In a culture like that, discrimination is built into the social, economic and political fabric, and individuals -- even "free" individuals -- don't really have a choice about whether they discriminate or not because even if they don't believe in slavery, they interact every day with slaves and the laws and rules that keep slaves bound.

In a racist society, it takes a special act of courage and willingness to subject oneself to scandal or danger to step outside that system and become an abolitionist. It's not the "fault" of every member of the master class that slavery exists, and some might wish it was gone. But the fact is that every single member of the master class benefits from the unpaid labor of slaves at every level of society because they simply can't avoid consuming the products that slavery produces, or benefiting from the exploitation of slave labor. So unless members of the master class rise up and oppose the system and try to overthrow it (abolitionists, for example), they're going to be complicit in the slave system: even abolitionists will profit -- against their will -- in the slave system because they still have to wear clothes or use other things the system produced.

The above is an extreme, clear example, which I use to make it easier to see the fuzzier, more complex situations in which we operate today. Despite the fact that slaves were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation, and that the 14th Amendment gave African Americans voting rights, the institutional structures of racism were not overturned. Even after the 14th was passed, white people still had the power to prevent black people from voting by instituting the poll tax, the grandfather clause, and the "understanding" clause which required blacks to recite any segment of the Constitution the registrar wanted them to recite. In the Sixties, the Civil Rights Voting Acts were passed, which knocked down those obstacles to voting. But black Americans still do not have political power in proportion to their presence in the population (even though there's a black President).

If you look at important voting bodies like the Federal and the State senates and congresses, or at the Federal and State supreme courts, or at the CEO list of major corporations, or at any other body that wields substantial power in the U.S., you will count only a few black faces (and in some cases, none). Out of the number of black faces you count, most of them will not be representing the views of the majority of black people in this country, but the views of the white majority. On the other hand, if you count the number of black people in poverty, and in prisons, or the number of people who are unemployed or lack health care, there are far more black people in these categories than is proportionate to their numbers in the larger society.

Unless you are going to argue that blacks are "naturally" inferior to whites (which is an outright racist position), you have to admit that there is some mechanism that is limiting black opportunity. That's the mechanism we call "racism" -- the interacting social, political, and economic rule systems that all discriminate, either overtly (racial profiling, for example) or covertly (i.e., white majority governments redrawing district voting lines so that black majority areas are politically split up and don't have the electoral power to vote in black candidates; or, white-run banks using zip codes as a criteria for excluding people who apply for loans, and just "happening" to exclude all the majority black neighborhoods in a city, a practice called "red-lining"). One could go on for hours about these various mechanisms, and I'm sure you can think of plenty on your own which discriminate against blacks, Hispanics, "Arab-looking" people, Native Americans, & so on.

Now to "Reverse Racism." It's crucial to maintain the distinction between the above three terms, because otherwise white people tend to redefine "Discrimination" as "Racism". Their main argument is that because both blacks and white can discriminate against each other, that "Reverse Racism" is possible. But the truth of the matter is that black people: 1) have far less opportunity to discriminate against whites than whites have to discriminate against blacks, overall; and 2) black people lack a system of institutionalized support that protect them when they discriminate against whites.

It took black and white people working together for one hundred years to get programs like Affirmative Action installed in the U.S., but it took one white man (Alan Bakke) only a single Supreme Court case to get those programs dismantled because he felt he didn't gain entry into medical school based on his white race.

"Reverse Racism" would only describe a society in which all the rules and roles were turned upside down. That has not happened in the U.S., however much white right wing ideologues want to complain that they're being victimized by the few points of equality that minorities and women have managed to claim. White people who complain about "Reverse Racism" are actually complaining about being denied their privileges, rather than being denied their rights. They feel entitled to be hired and not to be discriminated against, even though the norm is white people discriminating against blacks. If, in a rare instance, a black employer discriminates against a white job applicant, that's not "reverse" anything -- it's simple discrimination. It's to be condemned on principle, but it's not evidence of some systematic program by which whites are being deprived of their rights.

The right wing popularized the term "Reverse Racism" because they were really angry at having their white privileges challenged. Anyone who uses that phrase, whether they are right wing or not, furthers the right wing's cause. This is what I tell Democrats and progressives who I hear using the term -- not only are they being inaccurate, but they're helping out their opponents.

The above arguments can be applied to any institutionalized structure of oppression, affecting any race, ethnic or religious group, and can be used to to oppose claims of "Reverse Sexism" too.

I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Author: Hepshida
Feb 26th 2013
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
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LOL

Their main argument is that because both blacks and white can discriminate against each other, that "Reverse Racism" is possible. But the truth of the matter is that black people: 1) have far less opportunity to discriminate against whites than whites have to discriminate against blacks, overall;
Less opportunity means it doesn't happen...really:D

and 2) black people lack a system of institutionalized support that protect them when they discriminate against whites.

*cough*NAACP*cough*
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
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lol

while the article is fucking idiotic. Only point that is true is there is "reverse racism" there is just racism.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Of course there's reverse racism. Quanell X is proof of such.

"I say to Jewish America: Get ready … knuckle up, put your boots on, because we're ready and the war is going down. … The real deal is this: Black youth do not want a relationship with the Jewish community or the mainstream white community or the foot shuffling, head-bowing, knee bobbing black community. … All you Jews can go straight to hell."

"If you feel that you just got to mug somebody because of your hurt and your pain, go to River Oaks and mug you some good white folks. If you’re angry that our brother is put to death, don’t burn down your own community, give these white folks hell from the womb to the tomb.
 

sushiwarrior

Senior member
Mar 17, 2010
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Racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

It does not matter what color or race you are, whether oppressed or not, the instant you say you are better than another race then it is racist. To imply that "reverse racism" is impossible is equal to being racist in the first place and claiming that race A is inferior to race B.
 

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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Wow, and some of you wanted me to read your shit online, yet you didn't bother to read this article.. figures.

There is no system of oppression in America that actively works to oppress and subjugate white people.. period.

If you experience discrimination, prejudice, or bigotry, it’s valid to be upset about it and want to talk about it. It is not valid to claim that it is reverse racism, and certainly not valid to claim that it is racism on par with anything like the institutionalized racism.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
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Wow, and some of you wanted me to read your shit online, yet you didn't bother to read this article.. figures.

There is no system of oppression in America that actively works to oppress and subjugate white people.. period.
LOL...so you're accepting and pushing a made up new definition of what racism is from some dipshit, feminist nothing writing crap online and you are surprised we call you on your bullshit?:D
 

Oldgamer

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Jan 15, 2013
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That's why I posted the link, and why the OP didn't:whiste:

It doesn't matter if I posted a link or not, the article makes very valid points which most of you are simply discounting.. which of course proves my points again about most of the P&N group.
 

corwin

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2006
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It doesn't matter if I posted a link or not, the article makes very valid points which most of you are simply discounting.. which of course proves my points again about most of the P&N group.
Yeah...no it really doesn't. Racism is racism, whether it's a black or white or mexican or asian or...well anyone with a brain could understand the pattern by now;) The definition of racism allows for it to be by any race, because some know nothing, feminist proggy wrote bullshit on a blog doesn't change the definition of the word
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
You are right. Their is no such thing as "reverse" racism. It is just plain racism.
This, exactly. Although the OP has the germ of a point locked in the insane drivel - the effects. If I am a black welder and white people in my area are all racist, I may be unable to get a good job even though I have great skills and work ethic. If I am a white welder and black people in my area are all racist, it's highly unlikely that all the employers are black. Same racism, but very different levels of damage.
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
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Glad I didn't have to click a link and provide that ass-hat any revenue to read his gibberish.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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There is no system of oppression in America that actively works to oppress and subjugate white people.. period.

Really? I'm pretty sure the monetary system in this country keeps everyone down that isn't green colored.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
34,550
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Racism, however, describes patterns of discrimination that are institutionalized as "normal" throughout an entire culture. It's based on an ideological belief that one "race" is somehow better than another "race". It's not one person discriminating at this point, but a whole population operating in a social structure that actually makes it difficult for a person not to discriminate.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism:
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1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination
-

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/racism?q=racism
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the belief that some races are better than others, or the unfair treatment of someone because of his or her race
-

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/racism?showCookiePolicy=true
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1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others

2. abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief
-

I'm not saying that there isn't institutional racism. There is. However, the author's redefinition of 'racism' to what is essentially institutional racism so as to render it impossible for a racial minority to be racist against a racial majority suggests to me that he has an agenda.
 

DeadFred

Platinum Member
Jun 4, 2011
2,740
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This whole racism topic brings a great Eagles song to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-Y7MAASkg

"you bitch about the present and blame it on the past, Id like to find your inner child and kick its little ass"

"GET OVER IT!"

"you dont wanna work you wanna live like a king, but the big bad world doesn't owe you a thing" "

GET OVER IT! - GET OVER IT!"
 

Vic Vega

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2010
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It doesn't matter if I posted a link or not, the article makes very valid points which most of you are simply discounting.. which of course proves my points again about most of the P&N group.

Only if you're incredibly stupid and selfish...
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
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White people who complain about "Reverse Racism" are actually complaining about being denied their privileges, rather than being denied their rights.
My gawd, what a load of fucking rubbish this article is. I'll admit I skimmed the article because it started off as nonsense and continued on in this vein, including redefining what racism is to fits its idiotic conclusion.

And Oldgamer disagreed with the one in my sig. Laughable in the extreme. Pitiable, though, as well.

Oldgamer, you have a highly advanced case of white guilt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_guilt

There is no system of oppression in America that actively works to oppress and subjugate white people.. period.
Guess you haven't been watching the news lately, like, at all. Unless you think there is no organized system at all behind the witch hunt against GZ right now just because he's half white.
 
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