Why There won't be Peace In the Middle East

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Aimster
Do you lack reading comprehension skills?

I said Israel and Lebanon have been fighting a battle for 6 years now military to military.
You think this is the first time Hezbollah has striked Israeli forces or Israeli forces have bombed Lebanon or attacked Hezbollah positions?

Sorry but cluster bombs are not a valid weapon in war when the enemy only numbers in 10,000 range and using 1.2 million cluster bombs scattered all over Lebanon. Israeli generals even said they flooded the South with them. The UN is picking up the pieces now and 30 civilians died as a result after the war and this was in January.

Hezbollah is not an Islamic group that wants Jews dead. It has Christian supporters
You seem to lack the purpose of Hezbollah

Your the one who has no clue what Hezbollah is or is about. Show us some documentation that it has Christian supporters.

As for cluster bombs or what not, whats next, restricting the size of bombs that can be dropped? How about we say that bombs can only be dropped from 4 to pm local time?

Well guess what, its a freaking war. Civilians die in wars. Read my previous point, if you get the civilians to realize that supporting directly or indirectly the maniacs bringing the war to your doorstep is a big negative then they just might put an end to their support and help remove the problem.

Hence, if they are willing to tolerate Hezbollah using their lands for launching attacks against another they they by default deserve the hell they get in return. Life doesn't work that way. You can stop their ability to wage war by demoralizing them or killing them, sometimes it takes a lot of both. That is how WW2 was ended. This war between Lebanon and Israel will never end until one side or the other is unable to continue.

I think you have a point on restricting the kind of bombs used. Bombs strapped on Mothers should have no restrictions too. We want to be morally balanced, no?

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't give .02 about Hezbollah or their cause. You can bomb the M.E to pieces and I won't care.

There you go -- just like Narmer.

Just like 95% of everyone in the U.S

I speak for the majority

nobody gives a ****** about the M.E, including Israel

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
The difference is that the press held Israel accountable for civilian deaths even when accidental but excused Hezbollah from purposely targetting civilian areas.

Who the hell excused Hezbollah? The media doesn't focus on Hezbollah because nobody is debating that they are evil. They focus on Israel because thats where the controversy is.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
I don't give .02 about Hezbollah or their cause. You can bomb the M.E to pieces and I won't care.

There you go -- just like Narmer.

Just like 95% of everyone in the U.S

I speak for the majority

nobody gives a ****** about the M.E, including Israel

Most of us really don't. When Bush uses the excuse we went into Iraq for the people there most of us could give a sh!t because we know that they care for us about as much as we care for them which is not much at all. We look at them as barbaric assholes whose cultiure is subhuman(just look how they butcher each other). On the other hand we do have some fondness for Israel because their culture is more like that of the Western Civilizations but if Israel's survival was not dependent on our support I sincerly doubt they care much for us

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
You do not have to wave flags, their sympathy and ideals are much more important to fight for and carry around in your head. That is exactly what you do; you fight tooth and nail for them and their victory. You also lie to support them, as stated above.

Do you honestly believe that? You have to be delusional to read Aimster's posts and think "wow this guy loves Hezbollah?"

 

[imported_dna]

Aimster has been trying very hard to rationalize Hezbollah's actions, despite the fact that Nasrallah has declared -- after Israel got out in 2000 -- that they will not implement 1559, i.e. not disarm. That organization never had any intentions of stopping its "resistance", as it it dances to Syria's and Iran's tune.

Furthermore, Aimster seems to find fault in any response taken by Israel, but not in Hezbollah's action that endanger civilians in Lebanon; with him it's always Israel's responsibility not miss, while Hezbollah's human-shiled tactics are implicitly acceptable.

 

[Aimster]

I have clearly pointed out the wrongs of Hezbollah

You just don't see it because all you keep blabbering about is how wonderful Israel is. Of course I am going to respond to that with the wrongs of Israel.

Why the hell would you or I ever talk about the wrongs of Hezbollah when all you do is praise Israel in every single one of your posts?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dna
Aimster has been trying very hard to rationalize Hezbollah's actions, despite the fact that Nasrallah has declared -- after Israel got out in 2000 -- that they will not implement 1559, i.e. not disarm. That organization never had any intentions of stopping its "resistance", as it it dances to Syria's and Iran's tune.

Furthermore, Aimster seems to find fault in any response taken by Israel, but not in Hezbollah's action that endanger civilians in Lebanon; with him it's always Israel's responsibility not miss, while Hezbollah's human-shiled tactics are implicitly acceptable.

I'd have a ahrd time condoning the Palestinians actions against Israel but then I'm a white male living in the USA, among the most priviledged group in the world and I wouldn't even have a clue what it's like to be oppressed.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Young children, whose mother has committed a suicide bombing act, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal

Young children and adults, whose father dropped napalm on innocent farmers in Viet Nam, whose mother dropped bombs killing some of the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal.

bolded.

cute sentence. in fact, it's a textbook example of rhetoric.

GG!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Craig234

Young children, whose mother has committed a suicide bombing act, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal

Young children and adults, whose father dropped napalm on innocent farmers in Viet Nam, whose mother dropped bombs killing some of the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal.

bolded.

cute sentence. in fact, it's a textbook example of rhetoric.

GG!

Cool, I'll add it to all of ythe BS rhetoric that you post Pony Boy.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Craig234

Young children, whose mother has committed a suicide bombing act, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal

Young children and adults, whose father dropped napalm on innocent farmers in Viet Nam, whose mother dropped bombs killing some of the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal.

bolded.

cute sentence. in fact, it's a textbook example of rhetoric.

GG!

Cool, I'll add it to all of the BS rhetoric that you post Pony Boy.

first, are you denying the ridiculousness of that statement? After all, I'm sure that car accidents also killed "some" of them as well...

second, please link to similar statements made by moi. I'll be over here waiting...

third, GG with the personal attack. Par for the course?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Craig234

Young children, whose mother has committed a suicide bombing act, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal

Young children and adults, whose father dropped napalm on innocent farmers in Viet Nam, whose mother dropped bombs killing some of the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq, have been brainwashed to believe that such actions are normal.

bolded.

cute sentence. in fact, it's a textbook example of rhetoric.

GG!

Cool, I'll add it to all of the BS rhetoric that you post Pony Boy.

first, are you denying the ridiculousness of that statement? After all, I'm sure that car accidents also killed "some" of them as well...

second, please link to similar statements made by moi. I'll be over here waiting...

third, GG with the personal attack. Par for the course?

Are you offended that I reffered to you are "Pony Boy"? That's not any sillier than "Pale Horse" or "Red Dawn"!

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Aimster
You just don't see it because all you keep blabbering about is how wonderful Israel is. Of course I am going to respond to that with the wrongs of Israel.

Give it a rest already... I'm not out here saying that Israel is wonderful, merely pointing out that given the circumstances it comes out ahead -- a fact that you will not accept because of the usual "think of teh childran" rhetoric.

Here's a simple question for you: Israel got out of Lebanon in 2000. Has Hezbollah made any attempts at some sort of peaceful co-existance? Any public statements regarding willingness to work it out?

Do take into account Lebanon's occupation by Syria when formulating a response.

 

[Aimster]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
You just don't see it because all you keep blabbering about is how wonderful Israel is. Of course I am going to respond to that with the wrongs of Israel.

Give it a rest already... I'm not out here saying that Israel is wonderful, merely pointing out that given the circumstances it comes out ahead -- a fact that you will not accept because of the usual "think of teh childran" rhetoric.

Here's a simple question for you: Israel got out of Lebanon in 2000. Has Hezbollah made any attempts at some sort of peaceful co-existance? Any public statements regarding willingness to work it out?

Do take into account Lebanon's occupation by Syria when formulating a response.

Show me one post where you said something negative about anything inside Israel.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israeli soldiers with machine guns rarely shoot at innocent civilians.
They do however fire at apartment buildings that have civilians in them and cars that have family members of their suspects riding with them.

And at schools. And at people crossing the street. And at foreign peace workers in fluorescent jackets. Etc...

I see the suicide bombers as being as evil as a lot of the settlers and soldiers.

The stuff Fox won't show:

Settler vs Palestinian part 1
Settler vs Palestinian part 2
Drunken settlers vs British filmcrew
Settler kids vs Human Rights crew
Channel 4 documentary

What happened to the Israeli soldiers who carried out those attacks?

Praised? Medals? Investigated? Arrested?

Palestinians praise their bombers. Do Israelis do the same?

To those attacking Palestinians nothing.

The one who had killed the foreign worker it took several years of international protests before they finally decided to give the soldier a slap on the wrist. They stuck to the story of it being a camouflaged armed man aiming at the soldier shooting all that time, eventhough the whole event was captured on video.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Shivetya

Originally posted by: Narmer
It's ok to kill them with machine guns and Apache helicopters but not with suicide bombs? WTF is the difference? A dead man is a dead man all the same. You get no sympathy from us.

the difference is that Israel does not purposely target civilians, the other side purposely targets them. That is the difference between a civilized society and a barbaric one.

Too bad for most of the world that many muslims fall into the barbaric side, worse for the majority of muslims who live in fear of these maniacs as well

You really don't understand anything do you? I feel like you get all your information from the caps of ice tea bottles.

Terrorist acts against civilians are weapons of the weak. I don't mean weak like weak of courage or whatever.. I mean tools of people who have limited other means to attack their enemies. If the palestinians had an air force, or laser guided bombs, or tomahawk missiles... they would launch them instead of launching teenagers with a backpack full of C4 and nails. They attack civilians because they can't effectively attack the IDF... they would get slaughtered. So, they attack where Israel is weak.

Blowing up someone's house with a hellfire missile from an apache is no more civilized then blowing up someone's house with a suicide bomb, regardless of who is inside. Both Israel and the Palestinians are barbarians.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
A military that hides among its people, deserves to have no people at all. Any location proving aid/comfort to a fighter is a legitimate target and it is the duty of Israel to strike it.

So you are saying that any Palestinian who wants to target off-duty Israeli soldiers is allowed to blow up busses, restaurants, market places and anything else, as long as he was aiming for the soldiers and not at innocents? Guess you actually do think both the Palestinian suicide bombers and the Israeli soldiers killing innocents are heroes.

 

[Skotty]

Interesting how the arguments in this thread parallel the Israeli/Palestinian conflict itself. Can this thread be brought to a peaceful resolution?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Show me one post where you said something negative about anything inside Israel.

Look a couple of pages back; I said some of the settlers with religious zeal are morons.

So, are you gonna answer my question about Hezbollah, or will you go *poof*?

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Terrorist acts against civilians are weapons of the weak.

I think you're the one who doesn't get it: even while the peace process was in full swing, the palestinian "resistance" groups still committed suicide bombings.

Weapons of the weak? I think not.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
I've already said what I think a 'measured response' from Israel would be. But it wouldn't solve anything anymore than what they are doing now.

Your so-called measured-response is not a valid option; this ain't a Rambo movie.

It doesn't need to be. But if it 'does', then don't do it.

Why don't you tell me what an acceptable outcome is, and how to acheive it?

As someone already noted in an earlier comment: if the Palestinian stop this "resistance", then there will be fairly quick progress due to internal pressure in Israel, and external pressure. In terms of autonomy, it will take a bit of time to let things cool down, so that Israel can be certain they are not up to their old shenanigans, but in terms of the economy, the Palestinian will have a blast.

So if Palestine accepts all of Israel's claims, and gives up all of their own, then this would be a good solution. Got it.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
It doesn't need to be. But if it 'does', then don't do it.

So they should just bend over and take it, since anything they do is "disproportionate".

Geez, that makes a lot of sense.

So if Palestine accepts all of Israel's claims, and gives up all of their own, then this would be a good solution. Got it.

No, they should elect more leaders that deposit aid money into their bank accounts in Zurich, while talking about how everyone should lay down their lives for "the cause".

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
It doesn't need to be. But if it 'does', then don't do it.

So they should just bend over and take it, since anything they do is "disproportionate".

Geez, that makes a lot of sense.

Fortunately, you're quite wrong when you suggest that there are no better alternatives, so 'do nothing' is not a relevant suggestion.

So if Palestine accepts all of Israel's claims, and gives up all of their own, then this would be a good solution. Got it.

No, they should elect more leaders that deposit aid money into their bank accounts in Zurich, while talking about how everyone should lay down their lives for "the cause".

So take out their leaders, properly.

 

[imported_dna]

Like I said, this ain't Hollywood: you can't drop a guy in the dead of night with only a toothpick and some breath mints, and expect him to take out several militants by tea time the next day.

You've yet to suggest any practical alternative -- only the assertion that there are alternatives, so I see no point debating this with you any further.

As for their leaders, now it's Israel's responsibility to weed out corrupt Palestinian leaders? What a novel idea.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
A military that hides among its people, deserves to have no people at all. Any location proving aid/comfort to a fighter is a legitimate target and it is the duty of Israel to strike it.

So you are saying that any Palestinian who wants to target off-duty Israeli soldiers is allowed to blow up busses, restaurants, market places and anything else, as long as he was aiming for the soldiers and not at innocents? Guess you actually do think both the Palestinian suicide bombers and the Israeli soldiers killing innocents are heroes.

They already commit those acts of war. You already cover for them by bashing Israeli?s responses and defending the terrorist acts. This is not right or wrong, it?s survival.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Aimster
Show me one post where you said something negative about anything inside Israel.

Look a couple of pages back; I said some of the settlers with religious zeal are morons.

So, are you gonna answer my question about Hezbollah, or will you go *poof*?

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Terrorist acts against civilians are weapons of the weak.

I think you're the one who doesn't get it: even while the peace process was in full swing, the palestinian "resistance" groups still committed suicide bombings.

Weapons of the weak? I think not.

That's because Israel wanted a weak Palestinian authority. You also forgot the Israel action of 1988 when they openly supported the birth of Hamas, to counter the PLO. But the underlying problem in all of this is the settlers, the white elephant in the room. You and The Presence have admitted that Israel does not want to leave the territories. If you don't want to leave a land that the Palestinians count on for their future state, why are the two sides even talking to each other? For peace? Peace for Israel? What's the point when a nation will be nothing more than bantustans?

How about you stop pointing fingers at each other and start being completely honest to the Palestinians if you really want peace. I'm going to ask you this and I want no obfuscation:

In order to have a secure and peaceful Palestine and Israel, is Israel ready to leave all of the occupied territories, EXCEPT Jerusalem?

Yes or No?

Originally posted by: dna
Like I said, this ain't Hollywood: you can't drop a guy in the dead of night with only a toothpick and some breath mints, and expect him to take out several militants by tea time the next day.

You've yet to suggest any practical alternative -- only the assertion that there are alternatives, so I see no point debating this with you any further.

As for their leaders, now it's Israel's responsibility to weed out corrupt Palestinian leaders? What a novel idea.

Does Israel want a strong Palestinian leader that can control all the militants or a pliant one?