Why There won't be Peace In the Middle East

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Czar
dna,
do those children go out of their way to Israeli checkpoints to attack them?

or could it be that this is their neighborhood and an Israeli tanks and all that follows just happen to be there to disrupt their lives and.. maybe kill pe.. I mean "accidentally" kill people they know

this is no life the Israelis are allowing the Palestinians to live and you know that

the Palestinian children are "brainwashed" (from a Western perspective) into challenging and attacking the Israeli soldiers. There have been many times that the adults then use the children as cover to attack the Israelis. The intention seems to be to either have the Israelis hold back a response due to the children or to generate a sympathy factor of the due to the fact the children are injured/killed by the response.

Rocks can be deadly also as well as bullets. Rocks are also used with slings.

It has been demonstrated that the militants are willing to use the women and children as shields to protect themselves and are willing to allow their deaths to "advance" their cause (or generate the sympathy factor).

When such incidents are reports, no-one in the media is interested in looking at the factors leading to the incident.

The battle is a losing one militarily; the instigators and armchair warriors on the Arab (not just Palestinian) side are hoping to win the media war. World pressure brought the state of Israel into existence, they feel that it will put them out. The "mighty" Arab armies could not win against Israel and politically, no other Arab wants a strong independent Palestinian state

 

[Narmer]

The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"? You honestly expect us to believe that it has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye"? Do you think the rest of the world is that stupid?

Well, we're not and we see right through to your lust for revenge. Therefore, enjoy your thirst for blood. God willing, may you and your enemies shed an infinite amount.

 

[smashp]

Why There won't be Peace In the Middle East

Oil

next thread

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"? You honestly expect us to believe that it has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye"? Do you think the rest of the world is that stupid?

Well, we're not and we see right through to your lust for revenge. Therefore, enjoy your thirst for blood. God willing, may you and your enemies shed an infinite amount.

You sound like a freaking nutjob.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"? You honestly expect us to believe that it has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye"? Do you think the rest of the world is that stupid?

Well, we're not and we see right through to your lust for revenge. Therefore, enjoy your thirst for blood. God willing, may you and your enemies shed an infinite amount.

You sound like a freaking nutjob.

No, I'm being honest while you're being dishonest to yourself and others. You have no problem with death and destruction, so long as it's certified. I do, but if it can't be helped I wish the parties the best in killing each other. Hopefully, they will destroy each other in the process.

Now, are you willing to admit that the first paragraph is true or will you focus on the need to convince me that one type of political violence is legitimate while another isn't?

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"? You honestly expect us to believe that it has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye"? Do you think the rest of the world is that stupid?

Well, we're not and we see right through to your lust for revenge. Therefore, enjoy your thirst for blood. God willing, may you and your enemies shed an infinite amount.

You sound like a freaking nutjob.

No, I'm being honest while you're being dishonest to yourself and others. You have no problem with death and destruction, so long as it's certified. I do, but if it can't be helped I wish the parties the best in killing each other. Hopefully, they will destroy each other in the process.

Now, are you willing to admit that the first paragraph is true or will you focus on the need to convince me that one type of political violence is legitimate while another isn't?

Are you saying that there is no such thing as legitimate violence, or that you just don't think that either side is using violence legitimately?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"? You honestly expect us to believe that it has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye"? Do you think the rest of the world is that stupid?

Well, we're not and we see right through to your lust for revenge. Therefore, enjoy your thirst for blood. God willing, may you and your enemies shed an infinite amount.

You sound like a freaking nutjob.

No, I'm being honest while you're being dishonest to yourself and others. You have no problem with death and destruction, so long as it's certified. I do, but if it can't be helped I wish the parties the best in killing each other. Hopefully, they will destroy each other in the process.

Now, are you willing to admit that the first paragraph is true or will you focus on the need to convince me that one type of political violence is legitimate while another isn't?

Are you saying that there is no such thing as legitimate violence, or that you just don't think that either side is using violence legitimately?

I think that all political violence deserves to be avenged. I don't think the means matter. What I have a problem with is when different people start arguing over what is acceptable violence, when the end is the same. The problem with the argument is that the two sides are almost never equal so they will use whatever means they have based on their environment and history.

But to escape the cycle of violence, there has to be a genuine understanding between the two parties. In other words, they have to be completely honest with each other.

In this situation, if the Pals really want the territories mandated to them, they must say so. If the Israelis don't want to give up all of that land, they must be honest about that as well. If either side is going to use rhetoric or ideology to distort their true intentions, then they aren't being honest.

If that's the case, they they should continue their violence until there is an absolute winner, which is almost never the case. Therefore, both sides know they cannot win unilaterally, so they must make tough choices.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"?

Now let's note an interesting detail casually overlooked by Narmer the Un-biased: the reason why the people behind the suicide bombing are in that "crowded neighborhood"; it is the same detail that 3cordcharlie avoids addressing.

Also, notice how he used the term "thousand pound bomb" for dramatic effect, as if much smaller bombs or missiles do not exist.

And yes, a bomb that takes out the house where a suicide bombing planner resides is targeted killing; if there are any of his relatives in that house, well, that's his reponsibility for exposing them.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"?

Now let's note an interesting detail casually overlooked by Narmer the Un-biased: the reason why the people behind the suicide bombing are in that "crowded neighborhood"; it is the same detail that 3cordcharlie avoids addressing.

Also, notice how he used the term "thousand pound bomb" for dramatic effect, as if much smaller bombs or missiles do not exist.

And yes, a bomb that takes out the house where a suicide bombing planner resides is targeted killing; if there are any of his relatives in that house, well, that's his reponsibility for exposing them.

They can surrender at any time, and stop the death of their people.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"?

Now let's note an interesting detail casually overlooked by Narmer the Un-biased: the reason why the people behind the suicide bombing are in that "crowded neighborhood"; it is the same detail that 3cordcharlie avoids addressing.

Also, notice how he used the term "thousand pound bomb" for dramatic effect, as if much smaller bombs or missiles do not exist.

And yes, a bomb that takes out the house where a suicide bombing planner resides is targeted killing; if there are any of his relatives in that house, well, that's his reponsibility for exposing them.

Now you're transferring responsibility awat from Israel to the militant, blaming them for the deaths of his family and neighbors? By that logic, then you agree with me that the people of Israel have no one to blame but themselves for voting in leaders that carry out such strikes against their enemies, and getting blown away when the terrorists come. In other words, each side is responsible for their own actions. I think you and I agree on something.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Now you're transferring responsibility awat from Israel to the militant, blaming them for the deaths of his family and neighbors?

I see... so you're saying that the fact that they use human-shields they should not be attacked.

Dearest me, wasn't it only a few days ago that you were aghast at some Israeli soldiers for allegedly using a human shield?

Oh, the hypocrisy....

.... and the drama: one would think that 20 houses are obliterated off the face of the earth after such a strike.

EDIT: One reading your comments can conclude that you don't think that the militants are responsible of anything. Peculiar indeed.

By that logic, then you agree with me that the people of Israel have no one to blame but themselves for voting in leaders that carry out such strikes against their enemies, and getting blown away when the terrorists come. In other words, each side is responsible for their own actions. I think you and I agree on something.

Just keep talking and convincing yourself of whatever you want.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"?

Now let's note an interesting detail casually overlooked by Narmer the Un-biased: the reason why the people behind the suicide bombing are in that "crowded neighborhood"; it is the same detail that 3cordcharlie avoids addressing.

Also, notice how he used the term "thousand pound bomb" for dramatic effect, as if much smaller bombs or missiles do not exist.

And yes, a bomb that takes out the house where a suicide bombing planner resides is targeted killing; if there are any of his relatives in that house, well, that's his reponsibility for exposing them.

Now you're transferring responsibility awat from Israel to the militant, blaming them for the deaths of his family and neighbors? By that logic, then you agree with me that the people of Israel have no one to blame but themselves for voting in leaders that carry out such strikes against their enemies, and getting blown away when the terrorists come. In other words, each side is responsible for their own actions. I think you and I agree on something.

The difference is that the Israeli leaders are carrying out strikes on terrorist leaders. They are killing those who are killing them so they can't kill anymore. The terrorists are killing anyone they can. Aside from that glaring difference is the fact that if the terrorists stopped coming, the strikes on terrorist leaders would stop. Sure, it looks like a cycle, but it's not really. Stop attacking and you will stop being attacked. The terrorists want the end of Israel, not peace with Israel. Which is the main reason why the new unity 'government' in Gaza will still not recognize Israel. How is it possible to make peace with groups who don't believe you have a right to exist?

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"?

Now let's note an interesting detail casually overlooked by Narmer the Un-biased: the reason why the people behind the suicide bombing are in that "crowded neighborhood"; it is the same detail that 3cordcharlie avoids addressing.

Also, notice how he used the term "thousand pound bomb" for dramatic effect, as if much smaller bombs or missiles do not exist.

And yes, a bomb that takes out the house where a suicide bombing planner resides is targeted killing; if there are any of his relatives in that house, well, that's his reponsibility for exposing them.

Now you're transferring responsibility awat from Israel to the militant, blaming them for the deaths of his family and neighbors? By that logic, then you agree with me that the people of Israel have no one to blame but themselves for voting in leaders that carry out such strikes against their enemies, and getting blown away when the terrorists come. In other words, each side is responsible for their own actions. I think you and I agree on something.

The difference is that the Israeli leaders are carrying out strikes on terrorist leaders. They are killing those who are killing them so they can't kill anymore. The terrorists are killing anyone they can. Aside from that glaring difference is the fact that if the terrorists stopped coming, the strikes on terrorist leaders would stop. Sure, it looks like a cycle, but it's not really. Stop attacking and you will stop being attacked. The terrorists want the end of Israel, not peace with Israel. Which is the main reason why the new unity 'government' in Gaza will still not recognize Israel. How is it possible to make peace with groups who don't believe you have a right to exist?

The first problem with your argument is that you called them terrorists. The second problem is that you fault them for killing the most powerful people in Isreal, the citizen. The third problem is that you listen to the extreme elements while ignoring the moderates.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Narmer
The first problem with your argument is that you called them terrorists. The second problem is that you fault them for killing the most powerful people in Isreal, the citizen. The third problem is that you listen to the extreme elements while ignoring the moderates.

... while your single problem is that you didn't address the substance of what he wrote.

Good work Narmer, your arguments are getting more and more ridicilous.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: ThePresence

The difference is that the Israeli leaders are carrying out strikes on terrorist leaders. They are killing those who are killing them so they can't kill anymore. The terrorists are killing anyone they can. Aside from that glaring difference is the fact that if the terrorists stopped coming, the strikes on terrorist leaders would stop. Sure, it looks like a cycle, but it's not really. Stop attacking and you will stop being attacked. The terrorists want the end of Israel, not peace with Israel. Which is the main reason why the new unity 'government' in Gaza will still not recognize Israel. How is it possible to make peace with groups who don't believe you have a right to exist?

The first problem with your argument is that you called them terrorists. The second problem is that you fault them for killing the most powerful people in Isreal, the citizen. The third problem is that you listen to the extreme elements while ignoring the moderates.

You can call them terrorists or freedom fighters.
The big problem is that those on the Palestinian side have publicly stated multiple times that they do not want peace with Israel.

As long as they hold that line and continue to support/encourage the militants, then they ensure that peace can not come about. They do not want peace, it will undermine their power. Look at the internal "civil war" earlier within the Palestinian ranks.

Israel should not sit back and take it (the strikes); it defeats the purpose of a government protecting it's people.

Rocket strikes need to be stopped - Israel returned parts of the Gaza based on such a promise. Where did it get them. Attacks further into the heart os Israel.

When a wall has been put up, the suicide attacks have dropped. But why should a wall have to have been built?

If Israel was not treating the overall Palestinian situation with kid gloves, there would be no problem. It is not difficult to go in a scorch earth the cities in Gaza to remove the problem/pest from that area. The Arab countries had no qualms about doing so for 30+ years, it was only Israel that kept offering a helping hand even though it kept being bitten.

 

[QuantumPion]

If the Palestinians put down their arms and said "enough is enough, let's talk", tomorrow there would be peace.

If Israel put down their arms and said the same, tomorrow there would be no Israel.

 

[johnnobts]

You can call them terrorists or freedom fighters.
The big problem is that those on the Palestinian side have publicly stated multiple times that they do not want peace with Israel.

As long as they hold that line and continue to support/encourage the militants, then they ensure that peace can not come about. They do not want peace, it will undermine their power. Look at the internal "civil war" earlier within the Palestinian ranks.

Israel should not sit back and take it (the strikes); it defeats the purpose of a government protecting it's people.

Rocket strikes need to be stopped - Israel returned parts of the Gaza based on such a promise. Where did it get them. Attacks further into the heart os Israel.

When a wall has been put up, the suicide attacks have dropped. But why should a wall have to have been built?

If Israel was not treating the overall Palestinian situation with kid gloves, there would be no problem. It is not difficult to go in a scorch earth the cities in Gaza to remove the problem/pest from that area. The Arab countries had no qualms about doing so for 30+ years, it was only Israel that kept offering a helping hand even though it kept being bitten.
_________________________________________

can't have peace without compromise. and can't compromise with fanatics who deny your right to exist as a sovereign state. bottom line. i'm sympathetic to the children of palestine, who have to suffer b/c of the foolish actions of their parents in voting in a terrorist group to power.

 

[johnnobts]

most muslims in the Middle East hate Palestinians. I was in Saudi visiting family. you should have heard the racist venom being spewed out of their mouths about Palestinians.... the only reason they appear to be sympathetic is b/c they happen to hate Israel more than Palestinians.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: dna
Here you go: image

Perhaps that will explain to you why so many "children" get hurt -- they are the cannon fodder that the terrorist organizations use as a shield, and to garner the sympathy of naive westreners (remeber Al-Durrah?).

EDIT
By the way, I'm still waiting to hear from you as to where the militants usually operate from. I'm sure it's not from the house @ 784 Terrorist Road.

It doesn't matter where they operate.

You claim that Palestinian actions give Israel the moral high ground. When it is proven to you that Israel does far more killing, you say this is okay because Israel has the moral high ground.

While it's admirable that you've made yourself believe this 'logic' in the face of all sanity and facts, it still doesn't make it valid.

Do you think the average American knows that Israel kills many times more Palestinians than the other way around? That they kill a higher proportion of children?

Do you think Americans would support Israel if they knew this?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
You claim that Palestinian actions give Israel the moral high ground. When it is proven to you that Israel does far more killing, you say this is okay because Israel has the moral high ground.

Sorry buddy, never said that. I only pointed out the reason why many children die.

BTW, check EagleKeeper's remark on page #3.

Do you think Americans would support Israel if they knew this?

You'll just do anything to avoid addressing the fact that those militants use their own people to shield themselves.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
You claim that Palestinian actions give Israel the moral high ground. When it is proven to you that Israel does far more killing, you say this is okay because Israel has the moral high ground.

Sorry buddy, never said that. I only pointed out the reason why many children die.

BTW, check EagleKeeper's remark on page #3.

Do you think Americans would support Israel if they knew this?

You'll just do anything to avoid addressing the fact that those militants use their own people to shield themselves.

Not at all - you believe that it is okay to blow up anything and anyone, if you can claim there was a target somewhere in the pile.

I would say the fact that any suicide bomber can be sure a member of the Israeli military is in the cafe they are about to blow up has about the same validity - i.e. none at all.

Eaglekeeper's remarks are very touching, and encapsulate the illogic and hatred that surrounds all sides of the Israel fight.

It must be very easy for you, when you assume the moral superiority of your own murderers.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: dna

Do you think Americans would support Israel if they knew this?

You'll just do anything to avoid addressing the fact that those militants use their own people to shield themselves.

What do you want him to say? That the militants are bad people? I don't think 3chordcharlie is debating that point, I think he's debating the perception that Israel is somehow justified in every one of its actions. Israel has been downright careless in many of its responses to attacks and this only enrages the Palestinians even more.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: Narmer
The Israeli apologists are clowns if they think that we don't know what is happening when, after a suicide bombing, Israel strikes with a thousand pound bomb in a crowded neighborhood? You honestly expect us to believe that that is "targeted killing"?

Now let's note an interesting detail casually overlooked by Narmer the Un-biased: the reason why the people behind the suicide bombing are in that "crowded neighborhood"; it is the same detail that 3cordcharlie avoids addressing.

Also, notice how he used the term "thousand pound bomb" for dramatic effect, as if much smaller bombs or missiles do not exist.

And yes, a bomb that takes out the house where a suicide bombing planner resides is targeted killing; if there are any of his relatives in that house, well, that's his reponsibility for exposing them.

They can surrender at any time, and stop the death of their people.

When the Nuke goes off in Israel, it there are Jews living there, then that will be their problem. The Palestinians can surrender and the Jews can give up the land.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: dna

Do you think Americans would support Israel if they knew this?

You'll just do anything to avoid addressing the fact that those militants use their own people to shield themselves.

What do you want him to say? That the militants are bad people? I don't think 3chordcharlie is debating that point, I think he's debating the perception that Israel is somehow justified in every one of its actions. Israel has been downright careless in many of its responses to attacks and this only enrages the Palestinians even more.

You're much smarter than he looks just at the moment.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: blackllotus
What do you want him to say? That the militants are bad people? I don't think 3chordcharlie is debating that point, I think he's debating the perception that Israel is somehow justified in every one of its actions. Israel has been downright careless in many of its responses to attacks and this only enrages the Palestinians even more.

No, 3chordcharlie isn't debating any perception -- if you had read any of his previous comments you would've seen how hard he has been trying to prove something by pointing out the disparity in the numbers of Palestinian to Israeli deaths.

It's funny how you guys are talking about moral highground, etc, etc ... while you have no qualms passing judgement over Israel's responses. What should Israel do? Ask the Palestinians to do some arrests? Ask th UN to move in?

Let me know when you have some proposals.