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Why outrage over CEO pay but not over public sector union pay?

D

Deudalus

Golden Member
I'm just curious as to how this line of thinking works personally.

I think there are a ton of CEO's that are grossly overpaid based on what they provide, there is no doubt about that.

However, they negotiate that pay with PRIVATE companies and if that is what they are willing to pay them then so what? If the stockholders dislike the CEO or how much he is being paid they can always sell their stock and hit companies in the wallet where it hurts.

But the same people cry out to help the public sector workers. Granted they aren't making millions, but THE MAJORITY are also way overpaid and the money that is wasted on tens of thousands of union members getting over paid dwarfs the figure that a handful of CEO's are paid. They get benefits and wages far beyond what their skills and education should be paying them.

Futhermore, they negotiate these contracts with politicians who are spending PUBLIC money.


I have no problem with unions fighting in PRIVATE corporate America for what they feel that they deserved. That is between them and management.


Where I have a problem is when people are marching on Wall Street for how someone else wastes THEIR OWN money but they 100% support THEIR OWN TAXPAYER money being wasted in the same fashion.


Can anyone explain that to me?
 
There is no outrage over CEO pay by the majority as it is a private company using private money in whatever way they see fit.

There is outrage over public sector pay as that is done with public funds (taxpayer dollars) and is significantly higher than what people with the skill set of many public employees should be making.
 
You really think there is no outrage over public sector union pay? There is but I agree that the outrage is generally does not come from the same people that attack CEO pay.

I see plenty of hate on private sector unions as well though.
 
Deudalus said:
I'm just curious as to how this line of thinking works personally.

I think there are a ton of CEO's that are grossly overpaid based on what they provide, there is no doubt about that.

However, they negotiate that pay with PRIVATE companies and if that is what they are willing to pay them then so what? If the stockholders dislike the CEO or how much he is being paid they can always sell their stock and hit companies in the wallet where it hurts.

But the same people cry out to help the public sector workers. Granted they aren't making millions, but THE MAJORITY are also way overpaid and the money that is wasted on tens of thousands of union members getting over paid dwarfs the figure that a handful of CEO's are paid. They get benefits and wages far beyond what their skills and education should be paying them.

Futhermore, they negotiate these contracts with politicians who are spending PUBLIC money.


I have no problem with unions fighting in PRIVATE corporate America for what they feel that they deserved. That is between them and management.


Where I have a problem is when people are marching on Wall Street for how someone else wastes THEIR OWN money but they 100% support THEIR OWN TAXPAYER money being wasted in the same fashion.


Can anyone explain that to me?
Click to expand...

Let's take this one point at a time.

The out cry over CEO pay is twofold. One while they raped the US Gov't and us, they took enormous chunks of pay for FAILURE. Second when you or I does something wrong, like lie to our boss or to the government we go to jail. These CEO's lied to their boards, their stockholders, the government and still got big checks.

Next before you start to grouse about public union pay, remember these are the same people that: educate your kids, police your streets and neighborhoods, come to your aid when your property and life are at risk. The fault really is with the the local officials that you elected. They negotiate the contracts that gave them the large pensions. Look at this way. If your boss came to your group and said, 'Hey the company is doing great right now, so we are going to give you extra pension benefits and money' would you turn that down? In the case of the unions, they secured these agreements with contracts, which last I looked are legal agreements which both sides receive services or pay for work rendered.

Finally what is overpaid? How much is a person that protects your life and property worth? Who educates your child? Honestly if you are going to go cheap, don't expect your kids to function in today's world or that cop not to turn a blind eye, while a crack addict busts in your door.

Jim
 
jstern01 said:
Let's take this one point at a time.

The out cry over CEO pay is twofold. One while they raped the US Gov't and us, they took enormous chunks of pay for FAILURE. Second when you or I does something wrong, like lie to our boss or to the government we go to jail. These CEO's lied to their boards, their stockholders, the government and still got big checks.

Next before you start to grouse about public union pay, remember these are the same people that: educate your kids, police your streets and neighborhoods, come to your aid when your property and life are at risk. The fault really is with the the local officials that you elected. They negotiate the contracts that gave them the large pensions. Look at this way. If your boss came to your group and said, 'Hey the company is doing great right now, so we are going to give you extra pension benefits and money' would you turn that down? In the case of the unions, they secured these agreements with contracts, which last I looked are legal agreements which both sides receive services or pay for work rendered.

Finally what is overpaid? How much is a person that protects your life and property worth? Who educates your child? Honestly if you are going to go cheap, don't expect your kids to function in today's world or that cop not to turn a blind eye, while a crack addict busts in your door.

Jim
Click to expand...

Spot on.
I can see the fingers going into their ears now.
 
Want to know why the ourage? At least why it pisses me off. The economy SUCKS and in 2009 most companies profits dropped like a rock. What happened in 2009? CEO pay jumped 27% while worker pay stalled and people got laid off. They get rewarded for failure.

I could give a shit what they make. I do give a shit when I see co-workers losing their jobs due to a companies failures while the CEO gets a pay raise. It is not right in any way.
 
I see non-union public administrators that are making way more than any union member would ever get.
 
her209 said:
I see non-union public administrators that are making way more than any union member would ever get.
Click to expand...

Agreed

Where is the outrage?

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/02/0216_college_pres/1.htm

Highest-Paid Presidents of Public Universities, 2007-08

1. E. Gordon Gee

Ohio State University

Total annual compensation: $1,346,225

Package includes:
$775,000 salary
$225,000 deferred compensation
$36,225 retirement pay
$310,000 performance bonus
Use of house and car
Club dues
 
mchammer187 said:
Agreed

Where is the outrage?

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/02/0216_college_pres/1.htm

Highest-Paid Presidents of Public Universities, 2007-08

1. E. Gordon Gee

Ohio State University

Total annual compensation: $1,346,225

Package includes:
$775,000 salary
$225,000 deferred compensation
$36,225 retirement pay
$310,000 performance bonus
Use of house and car
Club dues
Click to expand...

Well, that's ok though because Ohio State is the "poster child for [NCAA] compliance".
 
CEO pay isn't 'the issue'.

The issue is an absurd concentration of wealth, leading to the non-productive use of capital that denies opportunity to most Americans, that has the power to corrupt our political system and to extract wealth from everyone else, to turn the US into a plutocracy in a cycle of increasing concentration allowing even more concentration.

CEO compensation is just one symptom of the issue that sticks out.

The top 1% have more than doubled their share of income from 10% to 24%. The top 400 individuals have more wealth than the bottom half of America (150 million).

Concentrated ownership is parasitical, draining from America. Distributed ownership is broad prosperity.

As the economy has more than doubled since Reagan took office, every penny after inflation has gone to the top 20%, and that's very concentrated to the top part of 1%.

Higher union wages are indicative of the wealth being more distributed to the public, they increase the share for union and non-union people. Hence, a lack of outrage.

Having a problem copying the chart, but look at this chart for why the outrage:

http://lanekenworthy.net/2010/07/20/the-best-inequality-graph-updated/
 
Dulanic said:
Want to know why the ourage? At least why it pisses me off. The economy SUCKS and in 2009 most companies profits dropped like a rock. What happened in 2009? CEO pay jumped 27% while worker pay stalled and people got laid off. They get rewarded for failure.

I could give a shit what they make. I do give a shit when I see co-workers losing their jobs due to a companies failures while the CEO gets a pay raise. It is not right in any way.
Click to expand...

It's not just CEOs. While the economy tanked and the people are much worse off on average, corporate profits for the big corporations were way up, Wall Street made record profits. For an industry that is supposed to be an 'overhead' for our economy, that makes no sense; when the economy suffers, Wall Street should too - not increase.
 
Deudalus said:
I'm just curious as to how this line of thinking works personally.

I think there are a ton of CEO's that are grossly overpaid based on what they provide, there is no doubt about that.

However, they negotiate that pay with PRIVATE companies and if that is what they are willing to pay them then so what? If the stockholders dislike the CEO or how much he is being paid they can always sell their stock and hit companies in the wallet where it hurts.

But the same people cry out to help the public sector workers. Granted they aren't making millions, but THE MAJORITY are also way overpaid and the money that is wasted on tens of thousands of union members getting over paid dwarfs the figure that a handful of CEO's are paid. They get benefits and wages far beyond what their skills and education should be paying them.

Futhermore, they negotiate these contracts with politicians who are spending PUBLIC money.


I have no problem with unions fighting in PRIVATE corporate America for what they feel that they deserved. That is between them and management.


Where I have a problem is when people are marching on Wall Street for how someone else wastes THEIR OWN money but they 100% support THEIR OWN TAXPAYER money being wasted in the same fashion.


Can anyone explain that to me?
Click to expand...

You must not be aware of the Koch bros/ALEC agenda.
 
Ohio State is about as profitable a college as you'll find - his pay is in no way, shape or form at outrage at all compared to the CEO/Union discussion which this thread is supposed to be about.

There is outrage about CEO pay in good economic times and bad.

There is outrage about Union-job pay all the time as well. The difference is in magnitude. While some idiot you know who does nothing but press a button all day on an assembly line (yes, union job stereotype) may make 20% more than Joe non-union guy - the CEO in question makes 2000 times more than Joe common guy - and despite Joe common guy being ungodly bad at math, even he comprehends that difference.
 
I'm not outraged about public sector union pay because I've looked into these positions during my job search, the salary is posted in every ad and it is not impressive, the benefits aren't really extraordinary anymore either, but this could be unique to my state.
 
Theb said:
I'm not outraged about public sector union pay because I've looked into these positions during my job search, the salary is posted in every ad and it is not impressive, the benefits aren't really extraordinary anymore either, but this could be unique to my state.
Click to expand...

Actually the pay is pretty low for the area where the jobs are. For example a teacher starting in Ohio might get 37K a year, in Florida its about 22.5K, most of that is due to cost of living, educational requirements (Bachelor's vs Master's), and the strength of the union that negotiated the contract.

Two of my nieces who graduated in the past 4 years, both went into teaching, it lasted 1 year for both. Teachers in Florida can not live on just their teaching pay. After they deduct the cost of the classroom materials it worked out to less then 20K for my nieces. So with that level of income, it was worth more to them to find better paying jobs in the private sector.

Jim
 
NeoV said:
Ohio State is about as profitable a college as you'll find - his pay is in no way, shape or form at outrage at all compared to the CEO/Union discussion which this thread is supposed to be about.

There is outrage about CEO pay in good economic times and bad.

There is outrage about Union-job pay all the time as well. The difference is in magnitude. While some idiot you know who does nothing but press a button all day on an assembly line (yes, union job stereotype) may make 20% more than Joe non-union guy - the CEO in question makes 2000 times more than Joe common guy - and despite Joe common guy being ungodly bad at math, even he comprehends that difference.
Click to expand...

Ohio state is a public state school (IE not for profit) and he is still an employee of the state.
 
bfdd said:
absolutely. Government pay needs to come down across the board in varying degrees.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because we need to make sure that everyone competent takes a private sector job instead. That way we ensure that government performs worse, and we can then point to government incompetence as a reason to get rid of government programs.
 
Deudalus said:
I'm just curious as to how this line of thinking works personally.

I think there are a ton of CEO's that are grossly overpaid based on what they provide, there is no doubt about that.

However, they negotiate that pay with PRIVATE companies and if that is what they are willing to pay them then so what? If the stockholders dislike the CEO or how much he is being paid they can always sell their stock and hit companies in the wallet where it hurts.

But the same people cry out to help the public sector workers. Granted they aren't making millions, but THE MAJORITY are also way overpaid and the money that is wasted on tens of thousands of union members getting over paid dwarfs the figure that a handful of CEO's are paid. They get benefits and wages far beyond what their skills and education should be paying them.

Futhermore, they negotiate these contracts with politicians who are spending PUBLIC money.


I have no problem with unions fighting in PRIVATE corporate America for what they feel that they deserved. That is between them and management.


Where I have a problem is when people are marching on Wall Street for how someone else wastes THEIR OWN money but they 100% support THEIR OWN TAXPAYER money being wasted in the same fashion.


Can anyone explain that to me?
Click to expand...

i agree with your confusion and outrage. That's why i support the governor of WI in his giving the unions the hard time this year..... although as long as there is FAIR NEGOTIATION there wouldn't be an issue with public unions in the first place.
 
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