Why outrage over CEO pay but not over public sector union pay?

[Zorba]

I see non-union public administrators that are making way more than any union member would ever get.

This bothers me way more than even CEO pay and much more than public union pay. Look at the escalation of coaches pay at public universities over the last decade, it is insane. Plus administrator pay.

When I was in college, we brought in a new president. His first task was to create 16 new VP positions, which he filled with all his cronies from his last school. Each VP was paid over 200K, the president claimed the new VPs would create so much efficiency that they would pay for themselves 10 times over. The next year we had the largest tuition hike in school history, more than double the previous record.

 

[PeshakJang]

No one in government got a huge bonus because they fired thousands to mitigate their poor decisions.

Most "CEO"s in government (politicians) get huge 'bonuses' despite poor decisions that inevitably harm the economy and arguably are responsible for thousands of lost jobs.

Tell me how many politicians in Washington are not millionaires. Then tell me how many were millionaires before they showed up.

You complain about CEOs like they took their money from the hands of others, when the government does this by definition.

Why did Obama hire the CEO of one of the largest corporations in the world to advise him on jobs, and look the other way when that Corp paid zero in taxes? Why does he constantly chide big business, but lets his CEO help write his policy?


If you want to solve the problem of big business entangled with government, why not focus on the one side that has the power of the gun
Behind what they do?

 

[PeshakJang]

Dp

 

[senseamp]

Why all the outrage at union pay and no outrage at trickle down economics and free trade for the fact that middle class no longer gets good pay and benefits?

 

[glenn1]

I'm not outraged about public sector pay, which is generally pretty pathetic compared to private industry. I'm outraged that it's basically impossible to discipline, fire, or hold accountable a public sector employee once hired.

 

[BarneyFife]

A lot of engineering jobs in the public sector start in the 40's. Not sure where all of these "overpaid union jobs" are

 

[Zebo]

A lot of engineering jobs in the public sector start in the 40's. Not sure where all of these "overpaid union jobs" are

Engineers are non union usually unless you're talking about a fire station "engineer" who gets to drive the truck, he's union. Oh and he makes 3x what your real engineer makes.

 

[umbrella39]

Apples + Oranges = Fruit Thread.

 

[Engineer]

This bothers me way more than even CEO pay and much more than public union pay. Look at the escalation of coaches pay at public universities over the last decade, it is insane. Plus administrator pay.

I would tend to bet that most (if not all) of those coaches are paid with athletic associations that are self funded. I know that University of Kentucky's basketball program not only brings in far more than Coach Calipari and his staff's salaries, it also helps fund many of the other sports programs on campus. There are 10's of millions of dollars brought in "privately" through athletic associations and the like to pay these people. It's not "tax payer" money paying their salaries.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Most "CEO"s in government (politicians) get huge 'bonuses' despite poor decisions that inevitably harm the economy and arguably are responsible for thousands of lost jobs.

Tell me how many politicians in Washington are not millionaires. Then tell me how many were millionaires before they showed up.

You complain about CEOs like they took their money from the hands of others, when the government does this by definition.

Why did Obama hire the CEO of one of the largest corporations in the world to advise him on jobs, and look the other way when that Corp paid zero in taxes? Why does he constantly chide big business, but lets his CEO help write his policy?


If you want to solve the problem of big business entangled with government, why not focus on the one side that has the power of the gun
Behind what they do?

I'm not a particular fan of what government has become but the fact remains that millions are given to individuals because they lay people off etc. Now you can argue about how good or poorly government functions in any given context but the point remains. There is personal financial incentive to keep the jobless rate up or outsource labor. Show me the Congressman or President who got millions for screwing up? Show me the money trail where Congressmen became millionaires from their government salary for doing so? My corporation is making decisions which cut payroll, hurting the people who have no control, hurting the company itself because of their lack of vision and yes will get more money because of that. That's screwed up and Obama has nothing to do with it.

 

[DCal430]

Engineers are non union usually unless you're talking about a fire station "engineer" who gets to drive the truck, he's union. Oh and he makes 3x what your real engineer makes.

In the public sector non managering engineers are all union.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Stop this evil BoD and CEO conflict of interest already. If the American system is so corrupted, why is there more top US companies in the Fortune Global 500 companies than any other countries? If all CEO in US companies are hired based on relationship and not capability, why is America economy the #1 in the world?

Let's see one country with limited CEO salary and absolutely zero CEO/BoD relationship that works better than the US. Come on, show us.

Could it be because our nation has the world's 3rd highest population (by a large margin) and that after World War II devastated the other industrialized countries in the world we came out ahead? Very few other industrialized first world countries are in our league as far as population goes. Could it also be a result of decent economic policies in past decades?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

(quietly enters room)
Its just no right bout these CEOs makin all this money.
How dare a CEO make millions of dollars at a BILLION dollar company.
That money should go to mail room people or that guy in the corner complaining about the stapler...or something.

Like these guys
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/top100/49005606.html
How dare those huge companies pay their CEO's huge salaries.

Come on...
Stephen B Burke makes 17m a year ...THE OUTRAGE!!!
Comcast is just a little company. That 17m a year should be used on cloning unicorn testicles not CEO pay.

Instead of being so cute, why don't you come out and make an explicit argument in favor of high CEO pay?

 

[Elfear]

A lot of engineering jobs in the public sector start in the 40's. Not sure where all of these "overpaid union jobs" are

QFT. Coming out of school I went public sector and my classmates went private. My starting salary was ~25% less than theirs. It was worth it to me for the extra job security but I knew I would never be rolling in the Benjamins.

 

[jstern01]

What Have Unions Done for America?
by BILL JAQUETTE on MARCH 4, 2011
Labor unions have been getting somewhat of a bad rap lately, and partly rightly so, most not so much. Labor unions were formed to protect workers and demand equal treatment. It's a contract negotiation between two parties. Some things that have come from such negotiations are unsustainable benefits and poor managerial of resources, but much of that is the fault of poor negotiations. Not "greedy union bosses". Most union members don't want to rip off the company. They realize that if the company can't make money, the company can't have any workers, regardless of union contracts. The unions should also pay attention themselves and know when too much is being asked, in case there's a repeat of Detroit Auto, where the benefits ruined the futures of many of it's own union members because the companies couldn't afford it.But what good have labor unions done for America as a whole?
End child labor
8 hour work day
40 hour work week
Paid Overtime
Weekends (yes, they didn't exist as days off before unions)
Workers compensation for people injured on the job
Unemployment insurance
Paid sick leave, vacations, and holidays as standard benefits for most workers
Health Insurance for many workers
Pensions or 401Ks for many workers
Improve workplace safety and reduce on the job fatalities
Pushed for Civil Right Acts and Title VII which outlaws job discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin
Occupational Safety and Health Act
Family Medical Leave Act
Push for livable minimum wage
While discussing what role unions have in America today, lets not forget what benefits most workers in America have today that's taken for granted. Those of you saying "Thank God it's Friday!", also remember to thank unions or there's a good chance you'd be working tomorrow.


Read more: http://billjaquette.net/what-have-unions-done-for-america#ixzz1aJc56OW6

 

[Zorba]

I would tend to bet that most (if not all) of those coaches are paid with athletic associations that are self funded. I know that University of Kentucky's basketball program not only brings in far more than Coach Calipari and his staff's salaries, it also helps fund many of the other sports programs on campus. There are 10's of millions of dollars brought in "privately" through athletic associations and the like to pay these people. It's not "tax payer" money paying their salaries.

That is always the claim, but it has some and's, if's and but's. For example, at my school the issued bonds against student fees to expand the stadium, $5/credit hour. Also for graduation the university has to pay the athletic department over $1M to rent the facilities. The local high school also has their graduation there, it costs them $5K. It was also widely believed that the university paid for the utilities for the athletic department, because it was not a ledger item on their budget.

So although the university isn't directly paying for their salaries and it appears athletics is self funded, it is in fact not, probably at nearly every public university in the country with a large athletic program.

 

[Engineer]

That is always the claim, but it has some and's, if's and but's. For example, at my school the issued bonds against student fees to expand the stadium, $5/credit hour. Also for graduation the university has to pay the athletic department over $1M to rent the facilities. The local high school also has their graduation there, it costs them $5K. It was also widely believed that the university paid for the utilities for the athletic department, because it was not a ledger item on their budget.

So although the university isn't directly paying for their salaries and it appears athletics is self funded, it is in fact not, probably at nearly every public university in the country with a large athletic program.

Athletics in general may very well not but but if you're a coach in college athletics making big time money, that means you're in a big time program that brings in enough money to pay your salary. You didn't mention ALL athletic departments (that I recall) when you posted, you pointed out certain individual coaches. Big time coaches bring in big time money for their schools. As for ALL of athletics being a money winner...I'm sure that many are not.

 

[Zorba]

Athletics in general may very well not but but if you're a coach in college athletics making big time money, that means you're in a big time program that brings in enough money to pay your salary. You didn't mention ALL athletic departments (that I recall) when you posted, you pointed out certain individual coaches. Big time coaches bring in big time money for their schools. As for ALL of athletics being a money winner...I'm sure that many are not.

Yeah, I did just say coaches salaries. But if the program isn't truly self sufficient, I don't really believe the staff salaries are. I mean if the program gets 5% of its money through the back door from the university, I would say 5% of the salaries were from that money as well.

Either way it is still money that can not be used by the university/athletic program for other things. Just like CEO pay or high administrator pay.

 

[Engineer]

That is always the claim, but it has some and's, if's and but's. For example, at my school the issued bonds against student fees to expand the stadium, $5/credit hour. Also for graduation the university has to pay the athletic department over $1M to rent the facilities. The local high school also has their graduation there, it costs them $5K. It was also widely believed that the university paid for the utilities for the athletic department, because it was not a ledger item on their budget.

So although the university isn't directly paying for their salaries and it appears athletics is self funded, it is in fact not, probably at nearly every public university in the country with a large athletic program.

By the way, someone on a UK board just posted the basketball and football numbers:

Basketball: $15.56 million for FY2010 ($9.3 million in expenses)

Football: $25.7 million for FY2010 ($8.4 million in expenses)

Looks pretty self-sustaining to me (since those two coaches are the highest paid in the group on campus).

 

[Ausm]

What Have Unions Done for America?
by BILL JAQUETTE on MARCH 4, 2011
Labor unions have been getting somewhat of a bad rap lately, and partly rightly so, most not so much. Labor unions were formed to protect workers and demand equal treatment. It's a contract negotiation between two parties. Some things that have come from such negotiations are unsustainable benefits and poor managerial of resources, but much of that is the fault of poor negotiations. Not "greedy union bosses". Most union members don't want to rip off the company. They realize that if the company can't make money, the company can't have any workers, regardless of union contracts. The unions should also pay attention themselves and know when too much is being asked, in case there's a repeat of Detroit Auto, where the benefits ruined the futures of many of it's own union members because the companies couldn't afford it.But what good have labor unions done for America as a whole?
End child labor
8 hour work day
40 hour work week
Paid Overtime
Weekends (yes, they didn't exist as days off before unions)
Workers compensation for people injured on the job
Unemployment insurance
Paid sick leave, vacations, and holidays as standard benefits for most workers
Health Insurance for many workers
Pensions or 401Ks for many workers
Improve workplace safety and reduce on the job fatalities
Pushed for Civil Right Acts and Title VII which outlaws job discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin
Occupational Safety and Health Act
Family Medical Leave Act
Push for livable minimum wage
While discussing what role unions have in America today, lets not forget what benefits most workers in America have today that's taken for granted. Those of you saying "Thank God it's Friday!", also remember to thank unions or there's a good chance you'd be working tomorrow.


Read more: http://billjaquette.net/what-have-unions-done-for-america#ixzz1aJc56OW6

Right Wingers don't let facts get in their way or appreciate none of these benefits.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Unions are vilified.

CEOs get their nut sacks carried on the chins of idiot P&N fingermen swine.

The grundle lickers of these forums would rather admire and worship a person who projects class, power and money but is rotten to the fucking core. His/her "talents" are nothing more than fooling members of the board to hire them and make sweeping cuts on American jobs.

Someone who uses his/her hands and sweat to earn their living is made out to be a goon; one unions member does something bad - every union member is a thug.

Someone who uses powerpoint and repurposed facts/figures to "earn" their living is made out to be a god; when one of these CEOs gets busted - it's just one occurrence. Yet, most (not all) CEOs or businessmen have some sort of double dealings and skeletons in their closet; which if they don't get caught is even more reason to admire them.

So, it's clear; if you can lie to make money, get away with it and harm the American economy, you are loved by the buffoon capitalist fingermen whores. If you bust your hump to make a living, you are an idiot and looked down on.

Grats assholes, you are praising an unsustainable approach to wealth and growth - how many more jobs are going to be cut for the sake of maintaining the same growth in wealth for the next decades? It is not feasable.

 

[alkemyst]

Right Wingers don't let facts get in their way or appreciate none of these benefits.

Sadly these issues never affected anyone but the poor.

The more we cater to the poor the more the middle class shrinks.

What the people a whole don't understand is giving $100,000 to everyone in the country at once would instantly reset everyone to their same levels again...only a few would gain any limited benefit.

 

[Ausm]

Sadly these issues never affected anyone but the poor.

The more we cater to the poor the more the middle class shrinks.

What the people a whole don't understand is giving $100,000 to everyone in the country at once would instantly reset everyone to their same levels again...only a few would gain any limited benefit.

But aren't we seeing this very thing happening today as the Government seems to work for the Rich only?

 

[alkemyst]

But aren't we seeing this very thing happening today as the Government seems to work for the Rich only?

The government is overwhelmed working for the poor. The ultra rich simply get more breaks. Most of the 'rich' that are focused on are middle class struggling themselves.

Hell. Topeka, Kansas wants to stop prosecuting domestic violence cases.

 

[IronWing]

The government is overwhelmed working for the poor. The ultra rich simply get more breaks. Most of the 'rich' that are focused on are middle class struggling themselves.

Hell. Topeka, Kansas wants to stop prosecuting domestic violence cases.

No the ultra rich get far more than simple breaks. They get government services on a grand scale. "My abuse of workers in foreign lands has led to insurrection, send in the Marines to protect my investments, er, American interests." "You got it boss!"