Seriously, just Play Eve. It has all the "hardcore" aspects and much much more.
I played it for a few months. Some parts of it were interesting but overall it got boring fast. That, and I just couldn't get past the mickey mouse ship mechanics.
Seriously, just Play Eve. It has all the "hardcore" aspects and much much more.
Bullshit.In a nutshell, World of Warcraft happened. All original MMOs were stymied or tried to emulate WoW.
WoW sucked a lot of life out of me (but most of it was work from home ) and was a blast for a long time. But, the game gets repetitive. You can't really blame them - if you find a successful formula you should stick to it. It's not their fault I played all my time in a short period of time - I bet plenty of players get the same game time in over many more months or even years than I did.
In all, WoW is an excellent game. It's just had its time in the sun and people move on.
Seriously. People keep complaining there are no MMO's with all these hardcore aspects, and they never consider just playing Eve.
I don't "love" those 16 hour sessions where we are rage-roll wormholes looking for a target system where we siege.
I definitely don't "love" those week long sieges where we HAVE to get on at midnight and get off at 7am because we are trying to exploit time zone differences during these sieges.
I also hate the fact that I can lose 3 billion isk (about...120 dollars) in a single night by accidentally warping to an enemy POS when in a sleep deprived delirium.
I also "love" the massive lines of infrastructure and supply lines I have to upkeep somehow and spend an entire day or two every month keeping supplies ready for battle at tip top shape, and have to haul 500 million isk worth of supplies through enemy space where i can lose it all in a flash easily with no real way of fighting back.
I also love the political aspects where in one night, we lost half of our fighting strength (a couple of hundred players) including our military backbone and paved the way for other alliances to attempt to take our space in a moment of weakness.
Seriously, just Play Eve. It has all the "hardcore" aspects and much much more.
I don't think it is people that want a game like Eve. They want a game like Eve except as popular and "loved" as WoW. Nothing wrong with wanting that.
darkfall looks interesting ... is there a game similar where you can build out your own play house? I always thought those were neat.
darkfall looks interesting ... is there a game similar where you can build out your own play house? I always thought those were neat.
Sounds like all your "likes" for a game are pretty childish, actually. I didn't care too much for instancing but now I really appreciate it.
I came from FFXI where certain mobs were harvested for their drops. Problem was you were in competition with gil sellers, not people just playing the game. Was a pain in the neck to fight with someone (you couldn't just PvP them) when they just wanted to make money and not progress. The best you could do was get them aggro'ed but then they fixed that too.
Right, because anyone who doesn't want to put up with insecure teenagers "aren't good at MMOs".
EVE Online has all that in spades.
Good... MMORPGs? Has there ever been one? I'm pretty sure the very things necessary to make an MMORPG also prevent it from being a good game. Grinding, too easy ramping up to artificial difficulty as you progress, fetch quests, catering to the lowest common denominator. The problem is that with single player and to some extent regular multiplayer games, you don't have to be all-inclusive. You can say, "only certain types of gamers can play this game." Offer multiple difficulty levels and game modes and so on. But in MMORPGs, everyone plays together so everyone has to be able to play.
Eve is a very different game in a lot of ways. I don't think it, or anything like it, will ever have the mass appeal that WoW has had, but it didn't have to. It's an excellent example of how you can run a profitable game for a niche audience. From what I have read Darkfall (which I may try soon) is another.
I did not say Eve had to have that appeal. What I ment was people who keep asking for such a game don't look around at ones such as EvE and etc. because what they actually want is a WoW populated/sized MMO of that style, which as you said, is a niche audience and will never be at the popularity level WoW was at its prime.
Pretty much exactly this. Plus the whole bit that with a MMORPG you can't really be important in the world. Nothing you do really affects anything for more than a few seconds. I'm much rather play single player RPGs that allow online play with a friend or two.
I understood, but I guess what I was saying is that Eve is probably not really the model for what they want.
To compare Eve to Wow, imagine taking all the cities and making them just a screen with icons for the vendors, and then make the player character a ship. Lastly, remove everything from the world except the cities, the players, the mob spawns, and the resources. Stick that all in a pretty skybox, and spend all the time you would have spent creating a believable 3D world and instead put it into the various kinds of relationships that players can have with each other and corps.
As someone has said previously, you could play Eve in a spreadsheet without any of the graphics and it wouldn't change much. Just very different from what most people expect. It's almost more like an old school MUD in some ways.
Darkfall actually sounds a lot closer to the old school MMORPG that many of us speak about so fondly, which is why I will likely give it a try.
I don't "really" understand why people hate on Eve for being able to done in spreadsheets. Its more or less the most "hardcore " you can get. The point where graphics don't really matter except for prettiness or in rarer cases actual tactical information, and then only numbers matter is basically as hardcore as you can get.
I've made huge spreadsheets to deal with market stuff, as well as done tons of different entrepreneurial stuff, and investments into new opportunities.
It should be exactly what these hardcore people want. Unless they mean" I want my MMO's to be hardcore, but Eve is too hardcore"
I don't "really" understand why people hate on Eve for being able to done in spreadsheets. Its more or less the most "hardcore " you can get.
Who said you had to "put up with insecure teenagers" and
Instances allowed people to farm without me being able to kill them. Different races means I can't walk up to you and just talk shiit.
I didn't make any comment about EVE Online.
Why Oh Why Have Good MMORPGs Died?
They haven't, but don't expectto see anything new and great any time soon. I might be surpised, but I doubt it. The reason MMO's are being developed cautiously at the moment is because of the rise of free to play games.
Many people keep saying that if you want this or that type of experience, just play EVE. EVE has the hardcore mode and all of the sandbox features you would want.
This is true. However, I think what interferes in EVE's appeal is that you don't actually have a character that you move around. All you have is a ship, which is quite un-personal.
Also, many people are intrigued or excited by close, in your face combat.
Here is part of what you said is wrong with WoW:
Instances allowed people to farm without me being able to kill them. Different races means I can't walk up to you and just talk shiit.
Which is pretty much something that an insecure teenager would say.
Funnily enough, many people don't other players killing them whilst they farm and they don't want someone walking up to them and talking shit.
No, I know you didn't. I recommended it to you, which I wouldn't have done if you had mentioned it yourself.
It's chock full of the things that you seem to like in MMO.
I'm not hating on it. I think it's pretty cool from an abstract point of view. I just didn't find it fun to play over the long term, and I think a lot of people try it and find that it isn't their cup of tea for some of the reasons I mentioned.
Here is part of what you said is wrong with WoW:
Which is pretty much something that an insecure teenager would say.
Funnily enough, many people don't other players killing them whilst they farm and they don't want someone walking up to them and talking shit.
No, I know you didn't. I recommended it to you, which I wouldn't have done if you had mentioned it yourself.
It's chock full of the things that you seem to like in MMO.
Yeah this is what I meant with my childish statement.