Why no one should consider voting for Jeb Bush.

[Fanatical Meat]

I thought the Capitol Police were still doing their rounds? (please correct me if I'm wrong. I am going from memory and I am not 100% on this)

They were (if I remember correctly) but the extra hours required to cover the monuments (maybe parks too) essentially broke their budgets and it was unclear how long the shut down would last. I think it was a force management choice, cover a broad area with fewer but keep it simple and keep people away.
I could be wrong but I followed it well back then, I was doing tech sales and I had accounts that did most of their business with the Government.

 

[rudeguy]

No that does sound familiar and right.

Thanks!

 

[boomerang]

Conservatives just can't ever grasp that their ill-advised actions have consequences, usually to other people.

Iraq - conservatives in action
Closed parks - conservatives in action
Bad trade deals with wholesale loss of American jobs - more conservatives in action

The track record of conservativism is one long, bloody, depressing failure. They dress real nice though.

How's that war on poverty thing going? Talk about ill-advised actions.

 

[IronWing]

How's that war on poverty thing going? Talk about ill-advised actions.

The poor got cellphones so it's working. Next?

 

[rudeguy]

The poor got cellphones so it's working. Next?

How much corruption is there in that program?

I can't go to the grocery store without some guy in a tent trying to give me an Obama phone for free. Well until they find out I'm not on food stamps at least....

 

[Jhhnn]

Don't forget about the Government shut down, it was Obama's fault that the park service was closed and ww2 vets couldn't visit the monuments.

^^^vandalism could be a reason to keep it closed.

Regardless it was known they would have to close it without funds being assigned. Parks & Monuments need money to keep open they are not free.

Spot on the trade part.

The whole whine at the time followed the usual right wing "Pain for thee but none for me!" routine.

They'd rather kids go hungry than deny anybody access to national parks & monuments they want to sell off anyway.

 

[rudeguy]

The whole whine at the time followed the usual right wing "Pain for thee but none for me!" routine.

They'd rather kids go hungry than deny anybody access to national parks & monuments they want to sell off anyway.

Here we go!

Tell us how they want our kids to breath dirty air and drink dirty water too. And don't forget how they want gramma to starve!


/hyperbole

 

[mindmajick]

The poor got cellphones so it's working. Next?

How much corruption is there in that program?

I can't go to the grocery store without some guy in a tent trying to give me an Obama phone for free. Well until they find out I'm not on food stamps at least....

You mean the Lifeline assistance program? You guys need to do some research. Hmmm... Who was in office in 1985 when the plan was created?

https://www.fcc.gov/lifeline

Oh, and by the way... Why would the poor need cell phones? (besides the fact that they're cheaper than land lines, provide internet access and allow them to look for a job)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/14/cellphones-for-poor-people/2805735/

Edit: here's the answer- good old Saint Reagan was in office. Yup- the same "small government" guy who made the NSA and CIA what it is today.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The poor got cellphones so it's working. Next?

That was a Bush post Katrina program it has ended.

 

[rudeguy]

You mean the Lifeline assistance program? You guys need to do some research. Hmmm... Who was in office in 1985 when the plan was created?

https://www.fcc.gov/lifeline

Oh, and by the way... Why would the poor need cell phones? (besides the fact that they're cheaper than land lines, provide internet access and allow them to look for a job)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/09/14/cellphones-for-poor-people/2805735/

Lifeline did not give free cell phones until Obama.

Lifeline for the most part was a great program. I sold phones, both cell and landline for a very long time and Lifeline helped out untold numbers of people who really needed it. Back then you got whatever phone you wanted (land or cell) then submitted a very short application with the required documents (a benefit letter usually) and in a very short time, your bill got a very nice credit. It was great.

Now...now not so much.

 

[mindmajick]

Lifeline did not give free cell phones until Obama.

Lifeline for the most part was a great program. I sold phones, both cell and landline for a very long time and Lifeline helped out untold numbers of people who really needed it. Back then you got whatever phone you wanted (land or cell) then submitted a very short application with the required documents (a benefit letter usually) and in a very short time, your bill got a very nice credit. It was great.

Now...now not so much.

Lifeline doesn't give out the phones. The phone companies do. They've just found more efficient ways to spend the same money. Do you think they all have iphones? No.. They have cheapo phones worth about $5 in today's market.

And guess what? Back in the 80s.. A LOT of land line companies have away free phones.

I'm really strange.. I know the statistics and realize most of the people on assistance aren't abusers of the system. There are always going to be a few trying to game things. Of course, you probably agree with my governor Rick Scott that we should drug test welfare recipients too.

Edit: last thing-cellphones being given to the poor started with Bush. Look it up.

Edit2: more FACTS if you're interested-http://lifelinefacts.com/lifeline-facts/

Your "alternative media" had led you astray

 

[boomerang]

Of course, you probably agree with my governor Rick Scott that we should drug test welfare recipients too.

What's your stance on drug testing for employment?

 

[mindmajick]

What's your stance on drug testing for employment?

Could care less. Doesn't come out of my pocket.

Freedom means i have a right to do drugs and they have a right to test.

Edit: if the government does it i consider that "illegal search and seizure". But my real problem with Florida doing it is the amount of $$ it cost us taxpayers. Only 1% failed the tests. The other 99% i paid for. Another "small government" republican. Of course he's still in office after they found out he had a stake in the drug testing company

 

[werepossum]

So you are denying you ate paint chips?



I wish just having fun with you. Lighten up Suzy.

lol He can't lighten up - he has HDS.

Personally I believe that's because he's a piece of poorly written code that searches out buzzwords and regurgitates the tabulated proggie pablum associated with those words, but who knows? I've never met a real person that stupid, but then I've not met everyone . . .

They were (if I remember correctly) but the extra hours required to cover the monuments (maybe parks too) essentially broke their budgets and it was unclear how long the shut down would last. I think it was a force management choice, cover a broad area with fewer but keep it simple and keep people away.
I could be wrong but I followed it well back then, I was doing tech sales and I had accounts that did most of their business with the Government.

C'mon dude. Everyone knows this was a purely political decision. Instead of posting guards to watch over the monuments, they posted guards to keep people out. If you want to argue that shutting the government is catastrophic, you have to do things that people will at least notice, yet by law the things people really value must go on regardless.

 

[rudeguy]

Lifeline doesn't give out the phones. The phone companies do. They've just found more efficient ways to spend the same money. Do you think they all have iphones? No.. They have cheapo phones worth about $5 in today's market.

And guess what? Back in the 80s.. A LOT of land line companies have away free phones.

I'm really strange.. I know the statistics and realize most of the people on assistance aren't abusers of the system. There are always going to be a few trying to game things. Of course, you probably agree with my governor Rick Scott that we should drug test welfare recipients too.

Edit: last thing-cellphones being given to the poor started with Bush. Look it up.

I have to be kind of careful with what I say and how I phrase them.

The Obama phone program is being abused. Everyone knows it. It is not a secret.

"In the old days" a cell phone, even a cheap cell phone, had a cost. For a cheap analog phone it was around $80. Now even a cheap flip phone has a cost. Lets say the cost of the phone is $50, which is the cheapest phone I know of from first hand knowledge.

The way it works is the dealer gets a kickback as commission for the sale. The lifeline program gave roughly an $18 discount back when I was doing the selling. A rate plan with an $18 monthly would give maybe a $20 kickback. Certainly not enough to cover the cost of a phone and certainly not enough to make money doing it. So the question is, what kind of kickback is the program giving? 500 minutes plus unlimited text for a normal plan would be around $30/month. We would pay our dealers $30 for that. Not nearly enough to give them a $50 phone and still make money.

Sorry friend but there are no $5 phones. $5 phones come from subsidies. What about the cheap prepaid phones you ask? Those are the ones I know the most about....

 

[mindmajick]

I have to be kind of careful with what I say and how I phrase them.

The Obama phone program is being abused. Everyone knows it. It is not a secret.

"In the old days" a cell phone, even a cheap cell phone, had a cost. For a cheap analog phone it was around $80. Now even a cheap flip phone has a cost. Lets say the cost of the phone is $50, which is the cheapest phone I know of from first hand knowledge.

The way it works is the dealer gets a kickback as commission for the sale. The lifeline program gave roughly an $18 discount back when I was doing the selling. A rate plan with an $18 monthly would give maybe a $20 kickback. Certainly not enough to cover the cost of a phone and certainly not enough to make money doing it. So the question is, what kind of kickback is the program giving? 500 minutes plus unlimited text for a normal plan would be around $30/month. We would pay our dealers $30 for that. Not nearly enough to give them a $50 phone and still make money.

Sorry friend but there are no $5 phones. $5 phones come from subsidies. What about the cheap prepaid phones you ask? Those are the ones I know the most about....

They usually get 250 minutes.

The retail cost of the phone is overblown, as I'm sure you know. The phone companies don't pay retail.

But let's say the phone companies get $18 a month. They overcharge everyone else so much they can afford to do it.

Put $8 a month towards the "cheapo subsidized" phone and the other $10 a month for phone service.

The phone companies constantly change their rates, are making an incredible profit AND they look like the good guys.

Edit: BTW folks. I'm not a liberal. But I've got nothing against helping others get a leg up. Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps is not always an option. I've never taken government assistance, but i was lucky to have family assistance. Not everyone has that option.

Edit2: reminder that bush started the "obamaphone"

Edit3: also check the other link i posted. This isn't funded by taxpayers.

Edit4: OK. I'm gonna stop now.
Since 2009, there has been an urban myth that Obama created a program to provide free phones to low-income Americans at taxpayer expense. There is, in fact, a government program that will provide low-income people with a free or low cost cell phone. It was*started in 2008 under George W. Bush.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Look at T-Mobile their phones are not subsidized. Basic android phones run about $60.

 

[rudeguy]

Look at T-Mobile their phones are not subsidized. Basic android phones run about $60.

I work for a cell phone wholesaler. His numbers are way off and I need to shut up now.

 

[mindmajick]

Look at T-Mobile their phones are not subsidized. Basic android phones run about $60.

This is your standard "obamaphone". Yeah. I'm sure that bad boy runs Android.

 

[mindmajick]

I work for a cell phone wholesaler. His numbers are way off and I need to shut up now.

Please don't. If I'm wrong then please prove it to me. So far I'm combating misconceptions.

The numbers were round ones for sure lol.

Edit: Wireless customers who don't participate in the program pay an average of $2.50 a month on their phone bills to subsidize Lifeline and other communications programs.

 

[rudeguy]

I'm not trying to be a dick. I have to be very careful when I talk about this stuff.

 

[mindmajick]

I'm not trying to be a dick. I have to be very careful when I talk about this stuff.

All good. I understand that completely and have enjoyed our discussion. So much better than this constant "party flame war" i always see.

I don't expect to convince anyone of anything except whatever party you're a part of doesn't have anyones best interest at heart.

 

[rudeguy]

:thumbsup:

When I sold phones, I made sure I knew as much as possible about lifeline. Back then we weren't allowed to actively promote it. When I worked for the cable co, sending out lifeline applications and giving accurate info was a must since the FCC wanted to smack us down. It's one thing I can for sure say I know.

But that was years ago and now I'm on the wholesale side of things. I do not know what the commission is on an Obama phone but I'm going to find out.

The system is being abused though. That is a given. I did support the free Katrina phones. That was the right thing to do to help out all those people who lost everything.

 

[mindmajick]

When I sold phones, I made sure I knew as much as possible about lifeline. Back then we weren't allowed to actively promote it. When I worked for the cable co, sending out lifeline applications and giving accurate info was a must since the FCC wanted to smack us down. It's one thing I can for sure say I know.

But that was years ago and now I'm on the wholesale side of things. I do not know what the commission is on an Obama phone but I'm going to find out.

The system is being abused though. That is a given. I did support the free Katrina phones. That was the right thing to do to help out all those people who lost everything.

AFAIK- the are no kick backs or commissions involved but if I'm wrong, let me know and I'll admit my error

 

[fskimospy]

How's that war on poverty thing going? Talk about ill-advised actions.

It's going pretty well, actually. Knowing that likely require getting your information from non-right wing sources though.