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Why it's good to send US jobs to India

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Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Are you guys going to show any proof or just agree with each other??

I've been showing evidence to support my well researched views...

Show me where the best jobs are not found in America, show me where US post-secondary institutions are sub-par; if not, please go away as you are adding nothing new to the discussion.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Stunt
Are you guys going to show any proof or just agree with each other??

I've been showing evidence to support my well researched views...

Show me where the best jobs are not found in America, show me where US post-secondary institutions are sub-par; if not, please go away as you are adding nothing new to the discussion.

You're research is obviously based on old data.

Simply note where the most recent research, product and health innovation breaktrhoughs are coming from and it is not from the U.S. anymore.

U.S. schools don't even believe in and teach science anymore.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Stunt
Are you guys going to show any proof or just agree with each other??

I've been showing evidence to support my well researched views...

Show me where the best jobs are not found in America, show me where US post-secondary institutions are sub-par; if not, please go away as you are adding nothing new to the discussion.
You're research is obviously based on old data.

Simply note where the most recent research, product and health innovation breaktrhoughs are coming from and it is not from the U.S. anymore.

U.S. schools don't even believe in and teach science anymore.
If my data is old (ie. Sep 8th 2005), you can surely point me in the right direction with this NEW staggering information that totally contradicts my "old" data.

Again, you are running off assumptions and perception instead of facts.

*STILL* waiting for facts....
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
IBM seems to be worried that the US is losing it's lead.

International Business Machines Corp., worried the United States is losing its competitive edge, will financially back employees who want to leave the company to become math and science teachers.


From here...(original article not found)

The US may indeed have a lead, but it's slipping. Fewer numbers of engineering and science students in the US while the rest of the world catches up.

Has anyone noticed the number of foreign (Chinese, Indian, etc) grad students in American Universities? I don't have a statistic, but I would guess pushing 50% of the post graduate studies are pursued by these people who then take the education back to their home country.

Losing manufacturing
Losing the lead on selling products aborad
Losing the lead on education particularally in science and engineering

With an acceleration of technology jobs leaving for the same reason as manufacturing - lower wages ....

Farming replaced by manufacturing

manufacturing replaced by technology..

technology replaced by what?
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
farming used technology to produce more allowing opportunities in manufacturing.
manufacturing used technology to produce more allowing opportunities in service.

It has been the natural progression of humans to make things cheaper, more efficient and more volumes. One factory in the US can make 5 times as much as it did when it first opened. Is this a bad thing? Of course not, did it close 4 other factories in doing so...yup. It is a natural progression, if your goal is to save jobs through an inefficient, expensive, sanctioned economy; go right ahead.

I'll tell you right now...inefficient, expensive, sanctioned doesn't create a superpower but an isolationist and regressive society.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Originally posted by: Stunt
farming used technology to produce more allowing opportunities in manufacturing.
manufacturing used technology to produce more allowing opportunities in service.

It has been the natural progression of humans to make things cheaper, more efficient and more volumes. One factory in the US can make 5 times as much as it did when it first opened. Is this a bad thing? Of course not, did it close 4 other factories in doing so...yup. It is a natural progression, if your goal is to save jobs through an inefficient, expensive, sanctioned economy; go right ahead.

I'll tell you right now...inefficient, expensive, sanctioned doesn't create a superpower but an isolationist and regressive society.


Just curious..since I don't recall what you've posted before. Exactly what type of jobs are going to be replacing these jobs?

Does the trade deficit not matter (as many believe the budget deficit doesn't matter)?

If the trade deficit doesn't matter, what about the negative flow of money/capital as a result?

What about the US losing it's edge in science and technology ( as articles above indicate)?

Technology services going to be the future? It will go the way of manufacturing on it's way to US extinction.

The only people to benefit long term from this are typcially upper class people owing the corporations. The lower and middle class will be pushed lower as their livelyhoods are sent to India, China, etc.


Just where did I say anything about inefficient? I've advocated saving jobs in the US by being MORE efficient HERE, not by offshoring to China. Real life has shown that labor is so cheap that even estimates of what it takes to ship it there doesn't matter. Every platform that my company has shipped to Mexico has an average of 2.6 times as many people working on them as they would have had being in the US. It takes 2.6 times as many people in the Mexico plants to do the same "transferred" work from the US. Why? Because of ineffienties and the fact that the labor is so cheap that the company doesn't care if it hires 2.5 times as many people there for the same job. There are other alternatives to cheap labor, but you, and others, seem to want to let them go by the wayside to pursue cheap 3rd world labor instead of developing and expanding the efficenties and technology base of the US to produce more with less.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: Engineer
1)Just curious..since I don't recall what you've posted before. Exactly what type of jobs are going to be replacing these jobs?

2)Does the trade deficit not matter (as many believe the budget deficit doesn't matter)?

3)If the trade deficit doesn't matter, what about the negative flow of money/capital as a result?

4)What about the US losing it's edge in science and technology ( as articles above indicate)?

5)Technology services going to be the future? It will go the way of manufacturing on it's way to US extinction.

6)The only people to benefit long term from this are typcially upper class people owing the corporations. The lower and middle class will be pushed lower as their livelyhoods are sent to India, China, etc.
1)Service jobs will replace the manufacturing jobs. If you look at current numbers: farming, manufacturing, forestry, mining make up only 25% of the US economy. This conversion has been happening for decades...you act as though this is a *new* thing. The US economy is very versitile, it will shine even with the reduced workforce. (ie. consolidation of domestic plants and offshoring)

2)Trade deficit does matter, but in the whole scheme of things, the US economy grows almost as fast as the deficit and is actually overtaking the deficit with the lower US dollar. The deficit isn't a huge concern at the moment with the impressive growth the US is experiencing (3% GDP growth a year). As for budget deficit, this is a whole other topic; i have no idea why you have brought this up. Maybe because of similar words?...I have no idea.

3)US is not losing its edge in science and technology. It is still by far the leader and Europe is lagging significantly. As for asia, good for them, they are in the technology development stage that the US experienced many decades ago. To compare an average engineer/technician in US to one in China is a moot point.

4)Technology services will be the next core employer. What you fail to see is that all these sectors exist in the US economy, and are thriving. It is just costing less to make and the final stages of the value stream continue to be in the US. Fact is, most of the money is to be made closer to the consumer, and the US is doing very well at maintaining this profitability divide.

5)The upper class has always benifited, i want you to show me a time where they haven't. This is not surprising, the lower and middle class will continue to thrive as the rich require services and products from the middle class and similarily the middle class from the lower class. If you think the lower class is more poor than it once was...you need to dig into your history books. Look at the number of peasants and people who took roles as slaves for the rich of the past.

I don't know what to say Engineer...this issue has followed man throughout his existance.
This is not a bad thing, at least take satisfaction in the idea that what we cannot do efficiently and competitively is being filled by those who can. If down the road i lose my job to 5 people in india that can do it better than me; I have to accept it. Am I scared?...no, the 1st world's economies have been able to withstand this shift and even with a small 25% manufacturing/mining jobs; we still have 5-7% unemployment.

If you somehow think the manufacturing jobs somehow demand higher wages, you are confusing yourself with the power of unions and wage increases of older companies. Technically you don't need to be any more smart to push buttons in a plant relative to pushing buttons at McD's. How is one more benifitial to society?
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Sorry but until this guy gets laid off a few times cause his job went overseas his opinion means jack d!ck.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Stunt
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Stunt
America has tons of good jobs...actually, the BEST jobs are there; this will be maintained with superior education programs and instiutions.
Hence why China, Japan and India are overtaking the US in science and engineering. Also why "white collar" jobs are also being offshored.
It's called competitive advantage.
If you cannot compete...you are destined to fail.

The more descriptive term is 'comparative advantage', and that's not what it means at all.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Engineer, if it makes you feel any better; some interesting information applicable to our discussion:

% manufacturing/mining workforce:

US: 24%
Canada: 18%
Germany: 36%
France: 28%
UK: 20%
Mexico: 24%
China: 22%
India: 17%

The US is very well positioned, having low unemployment as well as high manufacturing numbers. The reason germany has such high percent industry I imagine is due to higher unemployment making for a smaller workforce. When you look at the facts, the US isn't even close to Canada and the UK.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Side question on US manufacturing:

We've all seen the numbers in which this is the first economic recovery in the US with a reduction in manufacturing jobs. Over 4,000,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost/offshored in less than 5 years.

However, during that time, there has been a "boom" of temporary service workers hired. How many permanent manufacturing jobs have been replaced by temporary workers? I've heard that Toyota has used temporary workers for up to 3 years before considering offering them a full time position. Could it be possible that many US manufacturing jobs aren't leaving at all, but being replaced by temporary service workers that are NOT considered to be in Manufacturing?

I've asked this before but have not seen any follow-up information. I know that my company has hired many temporary workers throughout the last few years, but I don't get to keep track of how long they work or if they are offered full time employment.