Why is the whole transgender bathroom getting so much news coverage?

[xthetenth]

People are teaching kids now to choose what sex they want to be. Or in another words, implanting an idea in their heads that maybe they were born into a gender they were not supposed to be. I mean, we now have stories of very young children identifying as transexual or whatever other term they are using now. The very modern, very open minded and very educated parents don't seem to realize that maybe, just maybe these sorts of things may not be totally healthy for a developing mind.

But it's just another way of bringing these issues to the mainstream. Just like Milo was discussing his sexual fantasies, etc openly. Pushing a certain agenda.

None of this happens by accident.

You do realize that there are people who were documented in the 1600s as being born female and living as men, right? Off the top of my head the easiest to look up is Catalina de Erauso. Modern prudishness is surprisingly often an invention of the 1700s and 1800s.

Of course it isn't the norm. But it still happened, and we could expect more such situations to happen with this trend.

You're right. Nobody should ever be made to be in a bathroom with a member of a group who's punched someone before. Single person bathrooms for all. The problem with these arguments is that things like that already happen. After all, in that example, there's a cis woman breaking open a stall door, and that's kind of a problem!

This is more about saying that concerns about Trans violence is real. This actually happened. This woman actually got six teeth knocked out of her face by a transgender man in the ladies room. This man was still a man, fundamentally. He was a messed up man, possessing man strength, with man temper. Everyone likes to put on this fiction that once they declare their gender, that is what they are. But how can anyone know that they should be male or female? More likely is that it is some weird sexual fetish, where there is stimulation in cross-dressing.

Thanks, person who has no experience talking with trans people, for your insightful thoughts on the matter. I'm sure all the people who put enough thought into this and the therapists they talk to will be greatly relieved to hear all the things they discussed are irrelevant because you have opinions.

Also seriously, tone down the misandry. It's amazing how people flip right around when the subject of trans people comes up and turn into worse misandrists than the worst caricatures of feminists.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Why are you calling transgender people assholes?

Sorry I was addressing the GOP, not you personally.

 

[agent00f]

That's the outlier not the norm desura, and I don't think anyone that looks at it with an open mind thinks instances like that would be commonplace.

What would become more and more common is lawsuits. We live in an era where not only does everyone want easy money, they also want to make a "difference" and be part of the narrative. You can't be a warrior on social justice without a battle, so they look for one. As a result you'll have school districts allocating scarce resources to a non-existent problem out of fear they'll be sued. This takes away from the other 99.99% of the students.

Not to mention the slippery slope, it's not just where you pee. Girls would potentially have to shower with a male present because they identify as female. This will result in them finding ways to avoid the showers and as a result sports because at that age many of them are very insecure about themselves and their bodies, and having a boy present (even one who thinks they are a girl) would certainly compound on that.

Then there's the issue of hormones and does that count as a PED in regards to sports, who should get to play on what team. Is a male allowed to play against females because that's who they identify with? Even though their body biologically gives them an unfair advantage and potentially puts the other females at a greater risk of injury? What about this example where the girl wrestler forfeits rather than wresting with a girl transitioning to a boy and taking hormones: http://www.startribune.com/transgender-boy-2-wins-away-from-girls-state-wrestling-title/414775124/


This is something best left up to the school districts to deal with on a case by case basis rather than at the federal level. Will everyone always agree with the outcome? No, of course not, but that's going to be the case no matter what. By letting the school districts solve it if and when there's a need to (which the bulk of the time is not the case, most schools don't have a transgender student) it has the least impact on the rights and education of the other students. The warriors need to pick another battle.

Typical conservative attempting to blame their reactionary bigotry on everyone else. "Help I'm being oppressed by the SJW's!"

 

[xthetenth]

Typical conservative attempting to blame their reactionary bigotry on everyone else. "Help I'm being oppressed by the SJW's!"

If they didn't have the temerity to ask to be treated like human beings and instead been happy second class citizens who don't threaten my fragile worldview I wouldn't have to oppress them, now would I? I am the victim forced to act in a certain way for reasons outside my control, but let me tell you why they should change their behavior to fit my demands.

 

[Chiropteran]

It's fairly easy to explain. Here's the choice that a transphobic society gives a transgender person using the bathroom:

(I'd link the Tumblr source, but it appears to have been taken down)

BS. It's all BS, every word you wrote.

>If you protect their ability to use the bathroom that reflects their gender identity, they go in the "get yelled at" door.

Why? Why would a trans person get yelled at for using the bathroom? How do the "yelling" people even know that the trans person is trans? Don't ask don't tell might have been a stupid policy for the military, but when you are using a public fucking bathroom with people you have never seen before and never will see again why the fuck would you find it necessary to announce your perceived gender? Just walk in, do what you need to do, walk out. If anyone yells at you in this case it has nothing to do with your gender or lack thereof, because there is no legitimate reason for anyone in there to be aware of your gender.

If you are wearing a dress and using the men's room, that is your own fucking fault. The clothes you choose to wear ARE A CHOICE, even if you think your "internal gender" isn't.

>According to 2015 survey data, 12 percent of transgender people were harassed or attacked recently -- recently! -- in the washroom. Meanwhile, 59 percent of them have avoided using public washrooms precisely to avoid harassment and violence, and 31 percent skip eating to avoid having to use a public washroom. They're literally hurting themselves (through starvation and urinary tract infections) because they know they could easily be threatened.

What the fuck? Why don't these morons use the bathroom at home? I avoid using public bathrooms too, because they are generally filthy and disgusting. I don't literally hurt myself in the process though- I just go to the bathroom at work, or at home, and if I really need to go in public I go where I know there are clean bathrooms. If I wanted privacy I could go where I know there are private bathrooms. When did lack of common sense become a societal crisis?

>You can't create perfect parallels between 1950s racism and modern transphobia, because discrimination doesn't repeat itself neatly. But there is at least one similarity: in both cases, the discriminatory system forces the victims to choose between humiliation and violence. When you protect equality, you eventually reduce humiliation and violence by both eliminating the obvious venue for conflict and gradually erasing stigmas. When you get used to being around "the other" in society, you're less likely to see that once-marginalized group as a threat.

Another MASSIVE difference is any discrimination is brought on by personal decisions and actions the trans person chooses to take, instead of race being sort of an unwilling choice. That is a pretty important difference.

 

[Commodus]

BS. It's all BS, every word you wrote.

Why? Why would a trans person get yelled at for using the bathroom? How do the "yelling" people even know that the trans person is trans? Don't ask don't tell might have been a stupid policy for the military, but when you are using a public fucking bathroom with people you have never seen before and never will see again why the fuck would you find it necessary to announce your perceived gender? Just walk in, do what you need to do, walk out. If anyone yells at you in this case it has nothing to do with your gender or lack thereof, because there is no legitimate reason for anyone in there to be aware of your gender.

If you are wearing a dress and using the men's room, that is your own fucking fault. The clothes you choose to wear ARE A CHOICE, even if you think your "internal gender" isn't.

"You don't belong here." "Get out." "Go use the other bathroom."

And if you hadn't noticed, some transgender people are more identifiable as such than others. They don't have to announce it -- they just have to look a bit different. And if you believe that they're not going to be yelled at for going to a gender-appropriate bathroom, then you should have absolutely no objections to the protections that Obama's administration implemented, right?

What the fuck? Why don't these morons use the bathroom at home? I avoid using public bathrooms too, because they are generally filthy and disgusting. I don't literally hurt myself in the process though- I just go to the bathroom at work, or at home, and if I really need to go in public I go where I know there are clean bathrooms. If I wanted privacy I could go where I know there are private bathrooms. When did lack of common sense become a societal crisis?

Because you can't always use the bathroom at home. And why should they be forced to hold it in simply because of who they are? You're passing on public washrooms purely out of choice -- they're passing because they don't want to face harassment or violence. There's a big goddamn difference between "I don't feel like it" and a survival tactic.

Another MASSIVE difference is any discrimination is brought on by personal decisions and actions the trans person chooses to take, instead of race being sort of an unwilling choice. That is a pretty important difference.

Transgender people didn't choose gender dysphoria, so no, this is not voluntary.

 

[Paratus]

...

Another MASSIVE difference is any discrimination is brought on by personal decisions and actions the trans person chooses to take, instead of race being sort of an unwilling choice. That is a pretty important difference.

A difference you've created solely in your mind.

 

[Chiropteran]

A difference you've created solely in your mind.

Are you saying skin color is in my mind, or are you saying that trans people change skin color, or what?

 

[xthetenth]

"You don't belong here." "Get out." "Go use the other bathroom."

And if you hadn't noticed, some transgender people are more identifiable as such than others. They don't have to announce it -- they just have to look a bit different. And if you believe that they're not going to be yelled at for going to a gender-appropriate bathroom, then you should have absolutely no objections to the protections that Obama's administration implemented, right?

Cis people have already been harassed and followed into bathrooms by strangers just because they don't look "feminine" enough by some other person's standards.

 

[Chiropteran]

And if you hadn't noticed, some transgender people are more identifiable as such than others. They don't have to announce it -- they just have to look a bit different.

So what? Lots of "nerds" or "geeks" look different without being transgender. If people are being yelled at because they look different, this isn't a transgender problem.



>And if you believe that they're not going to be yelled at for going to a gender-appropriate bathroom, then you should have absolutely no objections to the protections that Obama's administration implemented, right?

Protections, lol.

Because you can't always use the bathroom at home.

That is where you are wrong, kiddo.

And why should they be forced to hold it in simply because of who they are? You're passing on public washrooms purely out of choice -- they're passing because they don't want to face harassment or violence. There's a big goddamn difference between "I don't feel like it" and a survival tactic.

How can there be any gender-based harassment or violence unless the lack of gender is so fucking obvious everyone can see it? That is choice.

Transgender people didn't choose gender dysphoria, so no, this is not voluntary.

Clothing isn't voluntary? What madness is your mind infected with exactly?

 

[VRAMdemon]

This is one of the many reason's I am no longer a registered Republican. This bathroom bullshit is some of the stupidest laws proposed in history. Some of these people, so afraid of the Trans people have probably already takin a shit right next to one of them in a public restroom and didn't even know it. They walked out of the bathroom the same person as they were when they walked in. Their precious special little lives weren't traumatized one little bit

 

[nakedfrog]

That is where you are wrong, kiddo.

Well, I think you've reached a new low. You are literally saying that people can always, always just use the bathroom at home.

 

[Chiropteran]

Well, I think you've reached a new low. You are literally saying that people can always, always just use the bathroom at home.

You are ignoring the context of the conversation. I originally said you can go at home, or at work, or at any place that has private public bathrooms. Commodus simplified and ignored the meat of my argument, which is where he went wrong.

 

[Chiropteran]

This is one of the many reason's I am no longer a registered Republican. This bathroom bullshit is some of the stupidest laws proposed in history. Some of these people, so afraid of the Trans people have probably already takin a shit right next to one of them in a public restroom and didn't even know it. They walked out of the bathroom the same person as they were when they walked in. Their precious special little lives weren't traumatized one little bit

This argument just doesn't make sense to me.

On the one hand, you are pushing the idea that the trans person will be so traumatized or damage if he/she is forced to actually use the proper bathroom.

Yet, at the same time, you are pushing the idea that there is nothing wrong with a trans man going in the ladies room or vice-versa, no matter how many concerned parents are worried that their kid will be traumatized by being forced to share a bathroom with someone of opposite natural gender.


How is it that the right of the trans is so much more important than the right of the parents and children who actually make up the majority? Why is it okay to traumatize millions as long as the 1% special snowflakes can be happy? What is so terrible about a consistent ruling that is as fair is it can be for the most people?

 

[Commodus]

So what? Lots of "nerds" or "geeks" look different without being transgender. If people are being yelled at because they look different, this isn't a transgender problem.

You know exactly what I mean. Neither is okay, but there's a big difference between harassment for looking like a geek and being transgender. The former is personality; the second is the very essence of who you are.

That is where you are wrong, kiddo.

Mind bringing up some evidence, or are you sincerely hoping that calling me "kiddo" will make me change my mind? Sorry, but you can never dispute the fact that there are times you can't just hold it in. And even if you can, it will never be acceptable to assume that a person must hold it in because of something they can't change.

Clothing isn't voluntary? What madness is your mind infected with exactly?

I'm not saying that they must wear certain clothes -- I'm saying that they should feel comfortable wearing clothes that reflect their gender identity when entering the bathroom. Imagine if I told you that you should wear a skirt to go to the washroom, even though you'd never wear a skirt normally -- you'd tell me to get bent, wouldn't you? Why should a transgender person be obliged to dress "neutrally" or against their gender identity just to avoid harassment?

 

[werepossum]

Cis people have already been harassed and followed into bathrooms by strangers just because they don't look "feminine" enough by some other person's standards.

I deduct 50 points of perceived IQ for using the made-up word "cis". Otherwise, I agree.

 

[Commodus]

I deduct 50 points of perceived IQ for using the made-up word "cis". Otherwise, I agree.

It's not a made-up word. It's a simple way of describing someone whose birth sex reflects their gender; that's it, that's all.

 

[werepossum]

This argument just doesn't make sense to me.

On the one hand, you are pushing the idea that the trans person will be so traumatized or damage if he/she is forced to actually use the proper bathroom.

Yet, at the same time, you are pushing the idea that there is nothing wrong with a trans man going in the ladies room or vice-versa, no matter how many concerned parents are worried that their kid will be traumatized by being forced to share a bathroom with someone of opposite natural gender.


How is it that the right of the trans is so much more important than the right of the parents and children who actually make up the majority? Why is it okay to traumatize millions as long as the 1% special snowflakes can be happy? What is so terrible about a consistent ruling that is as fair is it can be for the most people?

For children, I agree completely, although to me it's more of an issue in showers or locker rooms where there are always stalls to use. For adults, dealing with uncomfortable situations like an adult is part of being an adult.

 

[woolfe9998]

Same reason as always: Pubs want to distract the poors and middle class from their systemic raping of the economy in favor of their favored elite and ultra-wealthy classes. Mom and Pop on Main street? LoL--don't you realize that we only like you guys when you incorporate? Go fuck yourselves until then!

But, please, make sure you stay angry about bathrooms and genitals. Nothing to see here.

Pretty much this. Social issues have always been the big lure for conservative voters. The GOP has them snowed. Conservative voters think that anyone who supports their views on issues like these are the right sort of people, the people who understand right and wrong the way they do. Accordingly, when those same people tell them it's in their best interests to cut the taxes of billionaires and de-regulate Wall Street, they believe them.

 

[werepossum]

It's not a made-up word. It's a simple way of describing someone whose birth sex reflects their gender; that's it, that's all.

Of course it's a made-up word. In the first place, there are no spontaneously appearing words. In the second place, this word only serves to attempt normalization of trans behavior by calling out normal behavior. 'Cis' is otherwise useless because the term 'cis person' means exactly the same as 'person'. It's a useless term because the population which is not suffering from gender dysphoria is virtually the entire population.

Using the term 'cis' is more stupid than making up a special word for people who don't have hepatitis, don't have red hair, or don't have DD breasts, since all of these are vastly more common than is gender dysphoria.

 

[werepossum]

Pretty much this. Social issues have always been the big lure for conservative voters. The GOP has them snowed. Conservative voters think that anyone who supports their views on issues like these are the right sort of people, the people who understand right and wrong the way they do. Accordingly, when those same people tell them it's in their best interests to cut the taxes of billionaires and de-regulate Wall Street, they believe them.

That view would be valid IFF we had always had transexuals sharing bathrooms and locker rooms. This is a national issue solely because Democrats chose to make it so.

 

[Chiropteran]

You know exactly what I mean. Neither is okay, but there's a big difference between harassment for looking like a geek and being transgender. The former is personality; the second is the very essence of who you are.

All I hear is you saying the plight of a geek or a nerd is their own damn problem, but if a trans has the exact same problem it becomes a national issue and needs to be fixed now by the government stepping in.

Whats your logic here?

Mind bringing up some evidence, or are you sincerely hoping that calling me "kiddo" will make me change my mind? Sorry, but you can never dispute the fact that there are times you can't just hold it in. And even if you can, it will never be acceptable to assume that a person must hold it in because of something they can't change.

Yeah, I can't change your mind because it's something you can't change.

I'm not saying that they must wear certain clothes -- I'm saying that they should feel comfortable wearing clothes that reflect their gender identity when entering the bathroom. Imagine if I told you that you should wear a skirt to go to the washroom, even though you'd never wear a skirt normally -- you'd tell me to get bent, wouldn't you? Why should a transgender person be obliged to dress "neutrally" or against their gender identity just to avoid harassment?

Every time I go outside with socks & sandals my wife harasses me. Similarly, if I went to a job interview in a tee-shirt and sweat pants, I'd almost certainly be passed up for the job. And if you walk into a public place while wearing a holster with a handgun, where open carry might be perfectly legal but not often exercised, you can expect a lot of panic and discrimination.

If you don't want to be harassed, dress appropriately the same as the majority, that is just how the world works.

 

[woolfe9998]

That view would be valid IFF we had always had transexuals sharing bathrooms and locker rooms. This is a national issue solely because Democrats chose to make it so.

I agree that democrats have made it a national issue. In fact, I'm not so sure it was a good political strategy for them to have done so. However, the argument remains valid nonetheless. Regardless of who made the issue national, the reps chose what position to take according to the strategy they've always used. They play to their base on social issues so that the base will support economic policies which are not in their interests.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I deduct 50 points of perceived IQ for using the made-up word "cis". Otherwise, I agree.

All words are made up, some just have tenure. And Cis has some logic to it. It comes from the Latin prefix 'Cis-' meaning "on the same side of" and, in Latin, it is the antonym of "Trans-" which means 'on the opposite side of'. So, Cis-gender and Trans-gender makes sense from the Latin roots.

 

[Paratus]

I deduct 50 points of perceived IQ for using the made-up word "cis". Otherwise, I agree.

Edit I stand corrected by SMOGZINN.