Why is the whole transgender bathroom getting so much news coverage?

[FIVR]

Oh Goat Man I didn't even read your post. I got up to the part where you think girls will skip sports to avoid showers with other possible boys? I gotta finish it later but all I can say so far is LOL

 

[UglyCasanova]

Oh Goat Man I didn't even read your post. I got up to the part where you think girls will skip sports to avoid showers with other possible boys? I gotta finish it later but all I can say so far is LOL

You don't think that's the case? Do you think there are girls out there with body and self image issues? Or the fact they might sit out instead of showering in the presence of a male due to religious reasons?

I don't think that's far fetched at all.

 

[raildogg]

I think George Takei said this isn't about bathrooms any more than the civil rights movement was about drinking fountains.... which I thought was a good way to put it.

You are comparing the rights of blacks with the so-called bathroom privileges of transexuals? In what way are these even in the same sentence?

Also, please tell me in what way the transexuals are discriminated against on a similar level to that of blacks during the pre-1960s? Blacks are around 13% or so of population while transexuals are maybe .3% of population. I could go on about huge differences here but this transexual issue that is being pushed by celebrities is not comparable to that of the civil rights movement.

By the way, I don't care if they make gender neutral bathrooms personally. It will another way of the government telling us to be "good." Morality dictated by our supreme lords, The Government.

But what I think will happen is that more people will be turned off by this issue and it will create more division among people. If the goal here is to bring transexual lifestyle to being "normal" and accepted, I'm not sure if this bathroom issue is going to help at all.

 

[UglyCasanova]

You are comparing the rights of blacks with the so-called bathroom privileges of transexuals? In what way are these even in the same sentence?

Also, please tell me in what way the transexuals are discriminated against on a similar level to that of blacks during the pre-1960s?

It's just saying the scope of this goes beyond simply the bathroom. I don't think he nor Takai are comparing it to blacks and segregation, I could be wrong.

 

[raildogg]

It's just saying the scope of this goes beyond simply the bathroom. I don't think he nor Takai are comparing it to blacks and segregation, I could be wrong.

But to even bring it up in the same context shows how far people take these things.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Let me clarify one other related topic for a lot of you folks that are enjoying the 1st world and never traveling outside of it....

Repeat After Me: You do not have a right to a bathroom.

Everyone in this country is spoiled by the fact that they expect every place they step into to have a clean and fully functioning publicly usable bathroom. There are plenty of places in the world where they don't give a shit what gender you are, because the only usable public bathrooms are ones you have to pay to use.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Let me clarify one other related topic for a lot of you folks that are enjoying the 1st world and never traveling outside of it....

Repeat After Me: You do not have a right to a bathroom.

Everyone in this country is spoiled by the fact that they expect every place they step into to have a clean and fully functioning publicly usable bathroom. There are plenty of places in the world where they don't give a shit what gender you are, because the only usable public bathrooms are ones you have to pay to use.

I'm not getting whatever point you are trying to make. I'm not sure if it's been codified into law but people want bathrooms for obvious reasons so they aren't going away.

 

[Commodus]

You are comparing the rights of blacks with the so-called bathroom privileges of transexuals? In what way are these even in the same sentence?

Also, please tell me in what way the transexuals are discriminated against on a similar level to that of blacks during the pre-1960s?

It's fairly easy to explain. Here's the choice that a transphobic society gives a transgender person using the bathroom:

(I'd link the Tumblr source, but it appears to have been taken down)

If you protect their ability to use the bathroom that reflects their gender identity, they go in the "get yelled at" door. Still sucks, but it's name-calling; they're used to that, as horrible as it is, and can weather the storm. Anti-transgender laws like North Carolina's soon-to-depart law, meanwhile, force transgender people to go into the "get beat up" door. No, it doesn't guarantee violence, but do you really think a transgender woman walking into the men's room is going to be welcome in certain states?

According to 2015 survey data, 12 percent of transgender people were harassed or attacked recently -- recently! -- in the washroom. Meanwhile, 59 percent of them have avoided using public washrooms precisely to avoid harassment and violence, and 31 percent skip eating to avoid having to use a public washroom. They're literally hurting themselves (through starvation and urinary tract infections) because they know they could easily be threatened.

You can't create perfect parallels between 1950s racism and modern transphobia, because discrimination doesn't repeat itself neatly. But there is at least one similarity: in both cases, the discriminatory system forces the victims to choose between humiliation and violence. When you protect equality, you eventually reduce humiliation and violence by both eliminating the obvious venue for conflict and gradually erasing stigmas. When you get used to being around "the other" in society, you're less likely to see that once-marginalized group as a threat.

 

[raildogg]

This "transphobic" society actually has many, many phobias and those phobias probably affect far more people than this bathroom issue. But anyway, since this issue is very popular now, it's what in front of us to discuss.

Those stats they used actually are from the supposed transexuals themselves. Not saying that they feel like victims but let's just say that if a person or a group feels oppressed and victimized, would they more likely report cases of supposed violence or aggression due to perception or reality? Not saying that they are lying. But we have to ask these questions whenever such studies are published. Also, in what way were those questions asked? The answer can be manipulated by the type of questions asked (maybe not in this study, though).

From what I've seen and observed, it certainly is not what the media tells us. If we were to go based on what the sensationalist media tells us, it would appear as if there was a war going on against transexuals. This is far from reality.

Your really pushing it with your "violence against transexuals" statements.

Of course the transexuals will be margianalized because they are .3% of society! By this, I don't mean that they should be treated worse. Not whatsoever.

 

[desura]

That's the outlier not the norm desura, and I don't think anyone that looks at it with an open mind thinks instances like that would be commonplace.

What would become more and more common is lawsuits. We live in an era where not only does everyone want easy money, they also want to make a "difference" and be part of the narrative. You can't be a warrior on social justice without a battle, so they look for one. As a result you'll have school districts allocating scarce resources to a non-existent problem out of fear they'll be sued. This takes away from the other 99.99% of the students.

Not to mention the slippery slope, it's not just where you pee. Girls would potentially have to shower with a male present because they identify as female. This will result in them finding ways to avoid the showers and as a result sports because at that age many of them are very insecure about themselves and their bodies, and having a boy present (even one who thinks they are a girl) would certainly compound on that.

Then there's the issue of hormones and does that count as a PED in regards to sports, who should get to play on what team. Is a male allowed to play against females because that's who they identify with? Even though their body biologically gives them an unfair advantage and potentially puts the other females at a greater risk of injury? What about this example where the girl wrestler forfeits rather than wresting with a girl transitioning to a boy and taking hormones: http://www.startribune.com/transgender-boy-2-wins-away-from-girls-state-wrestling-title/414775124/


This is something best left up to the school districts to deal with on a case by case basis rather than at the federal level. Will everyone always agree with the outcome? No, of course not, but that's going to be the case no matter what. By letting the school districts solve it if and when there's a need to (which the bulk of the time is not the case, most schools don't have a transgender student) it has the least impact on the rights and education of the other students. The warriors need to pick another battle.

Of course it isn't the norm. But it still happened, and we could expect more such situations to happen with this trend.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Of course it isn't the norm. But it still happened, and we could expect more such situations to happen with this trend.

Maybe. But instances like that still are going to be exceedingly rare. Transgenders beating up women isn't the reason to be opposed to what Obama did and for Trymo reeling it back imo, federal government overreach causing greater problems than it "solves" is.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It's fairly easy to explain. Here's the choice that a transphobic society gives a transgender person using the bathroom:

(I'd link the Tumblr source, but it appears to have been taken down)

If you protect their ability to use the bathroom that reflects their gender identity, they go in the "get yelled at" door. Still sucks, but it's name-calling; they're used to that, as horrible as it is, and can weather the storm. Anti-transgender laws like North Carolina's soon-to-depart law, meanwhile, force transgender people to go into the "get beat up" door. No, it doesn't guarantee violence, but do you really think a transgender woman walking into the men's room is going to be welcome in certain states?

According to 2015 survey data, 12 percent of transgender people were harassed or attacked recently -- recently! -- in the washroom. Meanwhile, 59 percent of them have avoided using public washrooms precisely to avoid harassment and violence, and 31 percent skip eating to avoid having to use a public washroom. They're literally hurting themselves (through starvation and urinary tract infections) because they know they could easily be threatened.

You can't create perfect parallels between 1950s racism and modern transphobia, because discrimination doesn't repeat itself neatly. But there is at least one similarity: in both cases, the discriminatory system forces the victims to choose between humiliation and violence. When you protect equality, you eventually reduce humiliation and violence by both eliminating the obvious venue for conflict and gradually erasing stigmas. When you get used to being around "the other" in society, you're less likely to see that once-marginalized group as a threat.

They are still going to get yelled at and beat up though no matter what because kids are kids. Obama made it so that no special accomadations can be made, so there's no door number 3. Schools can solve these issues without the federal government getting involved, that only makes the situation worse.

 

[Commodus]

They are still going to get yelled at and beat up though no matter what because kids are kids. Obama made it so that no special accommodations can be made, so there's no door number 3. Schools can solve these issues without the federal government getting involved, that only makes the situation worse.

How much of that is kids (and adults, really) being isolated from the transgender community, though? It reminds me a bit of the "boys will be boys" argument that people use to justify doing little about sexual assault: you'll never know if you can improve the situation by treating it as inevitable.

And while a third bathroom would theoretically create a safer environment, it has its own problems. First, it lumps all transgender people into an "other" category they don't usually want to be in; it says their gender doesn't really count, that they're to be kept apart from everyone else. Also, this increases the possibility of targeted harassment, since you'll know that anyone coming out of that bathroom is transgender. Again, I know you're trying to be considerate, but it's tricky.

 

[desura]

How much of that is kids (and adults, really) being isolated from the transgender community, though? It reminds me a bit of the "boys will be boys" argument that people use to justify doing little about sexual assault: you'll never know if you can improve the situation by treating it as inevitable.

And while a third bathroom would theoretically create a safer environment, it has its own problems. First, it lumps all transgender people into an "other" category they don't usually want to be in; it says their gender doesn't really count, that they're to be kept apart from everyone else. Also, this increases the possibility of targeted harassment, since you'll know that anyone coming out of that bathroom is transgender. Again, I know you're trying to be considerate, but it's tricky.

They already are an other category. Biology is real. Transgender people cannot bear children. Their muscle and bone structure is still their birth gender. Their relationships with the "opposite" gender is still going to be a queer relationship. If you took a sampling of their DNA and cloned it, you would get a male or female that they were at birth. Your premise is the absurdity that they are in fact their desired gender.

They can be accommodated simply by having single-person bathroom, for disabled as well or families who simply want privacy. Custom would dictate that this bathroom should be special use only. There was one at a place I worked, I liked going in there actually haha.

 

[UglyCasanova]

It is tricky, which is why one size doesn't fit all and the Feds need to stay out of it.

 

[desura]

Maybe. But instances like that still are going to be exceedingly rare. Transgenders beating up women isn't the reason to be opposed to what Obama did and for Trymo reeling it back imo, federal government overreach causing greater problems than it "solves" is.

This is more about saying that concerns about Trans violence is real. This actually happened. This woman actually got six teeth knocked out of her face by a transgender man in the ladies room. This man was still a man, fundamentally. He was a messed up man, possessing man strength, with man temper. Everyone likes to put on this fiction that once they declare their gender, that is what they are. But how can anyone know that they should be male or female? More likely is that it is some weird sexual fetish, where there is stimulation in cross-dressing.

 

[UglyCasanova]

They already are an other category. Biology is real. Transgender people cannot bear children. Their muscle and bone structure is still their birth gender. Their relationships with the "opposite" gender is still going to be a queer relationship. If you took a sampling of their DNA and cloned it, you would get a male or female that they were at birth. Your premise is the absurdity that they are in fact their desired gender.

They can be accommodated simply by having single-person bathroom, for disabled as well or families who simply want privacy. Custom would dictate that this bathroom should be special use only. There was one at a place I worked, I liked going in there actually haha.

They can be, but forcing schools to spend resources building more bathrooms isn't the solution. If the school wants to, great, but money doesn't grow on trees and many schools don't have the resources. Not to mention most schools don't have a transgender student in them in the first place. Having the schools answer to DC about this simply opens the floodgates for lawsuits for a problem best served at the local level.

 

[repoman0]

This is more about saying that concerns about Trans violence is real. This actually happened. This woman actually got six teeth knocked out of her face by a transgender man in the ladies room. This man was still a man, fundamentally. He was a messed up man, possessing man strength, with man temper. Everyone likes to put on this fiction that once they declare their gender, that is what they are. But how can anyone know that they should be male or female? More likely is that it is some weird sexual fetish, where there is stimulation in cross-dressing.

It sounded to me like the "real" female had a man temper too. The linked story said she kicked in the door of the stall, which was then followed by the rest of the altercation.

There are plenty of "real" females who would knock out some teeth if another woman kicked the door of their stall in.

By the way, do you have any sources for the last statement? Or are you talking out of your ass?

 

[desura]

It is tricky, which is why one size doesn't fit all and the Feds need to stay out of it.

The feds have this crusading quality to them. If you watch stuff on Vox regarding the issue, notice how they quickly gloss over inconvenient facts and simply don't address them in the video, putting forth one POV and acting like it is the truth no questions. Lots of the culture war issues they've waged recently are like this, where they act like there is no debate and it is obviously settled reality. This is why I tell people on here that Vox, Slate, and The Atlantic are supremely biased, as biased as Milo Yiannapoulis.

 

[UglyCasanova]

This is more about saying that concerns about Trans violence is real. This actually happened. This woman actually got six teeth knocked out of her face by a transgender man in the ladies room. This man was still a man, fundamentally. He was a messed up man, possessing man strength, with man temper. Everyone likes to put on this fiction that once they declare their gender, that is what they are. But how can anyone know that they should be male or female? More likely is that it is some weird sexual fetish, where there is stimulation in cross-dressing.

Whatever you say mate 🙄

 

[momeNt]

I bet you wear a fedora too.

It's like every new generation forgets what the past generation learned and has to change something just to make it their own. What is more likely is modern stresses, hormones in foods, is causing a tiny percentage of people to malfunction.

Don't wear a fedora. Grade school thru college all private catholic as well.

Don't care about hormones in food, I eat canned chicken almost every day. Don't care about making things my own I just would like people to stop bitching about bathrooms. So I'm all for a "deal with it" approach, and I believe a single bathroom might be the cheapest solution. Requires no honor system, no genital inspection, no nothing.

 

[werepossum]

Because today they come for the queers. Who will they come for tomorrow?

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—but they didn't recognize me 'cause I was a girl that day.

Nobody wants to sit around waiting for these assholes to pick their next target.

Fixed that for you.

 

[werepossum]

Don't wear a fedora. Grade school thru college all private catholic as well.

Don't care about hormones in food, I eat canned chicken almost every day. Don't care about making things my own I just would like people to stop bitching about bathrooms. So I'm all for a "deal with it" approach, and I believe a single bathroom might be the cheapest solution. Requires no honor system, no genital inspection, no nothing.

Single occupancy bathrooms are the only possible choice once a society has degenerated to the point of being unable to determine sex.

Frankly, once people are adults I could not care less. But for minors, I think there should absolutely be some protection for girls who do not wish to share a locker room or showers with a boy who feels like he is a girl. Kids have a hard enough time with body issues anyway. And frankly, had this option been available to me in high school, I would have become as messed up as I needed to be to shower with the girls, being something of a lech and an exhibitionist anyway. Sad puppy that I missed my chance to have the state force girls to shower with me.

On the other hand, I got to live after penicillin and before AIDS & hepatitis became real things, so yeah!

 

[momeNt]

Single occupancy bathrooms are the only possible choice once a society has degenerated to the point of being unable to determine sex.

Frankly, once people are adults I could not care less. But for minors, I think there should absolutely be some protection for girls who do not wish to share a locker room or showers with a boy who feels like he is a girl. Kids have a hard enough time with body issues anyway. And frankly, had this option been available to me in high school, I would have become as messed up as I needed to be to shower with the girls, being something of a lech and an exhibitionist anyway. Sad puppy that I missed my chance to have the state force girls to shower with me.

On the other hand, I got to live after penicillin and before AIDS & hepatitis became real things, so yeah!

I think eventually the modesty and body issues will kind of fall to the wayside because we will have less to worry about. Separate everything probably only adds to body and sex anxiety.

 

[nakedfrog]

https://archive.is/1Wu9k

280 lb "transgender" Patrick Hagan punched an actual female in the woman's bathroom. She lost six teeth.

Here he is:

In 1997... and five teeth.

Hagan took the stand to say he punched Partsch in self-defense after she kicked open the door to the bathroom stall he was in.

You know, I feel like maybe it's reasonable to punch someone in the mouth if they kick open the door to your stall in the bathroom, regardless of gender. Troll on, trollerson.