Why is the Ford-Edsel 390 so weak?

[EightySix Four]

It's also the crank layout. IIRC most BMW V8 engines use a flat-plane crank while most US V8 engines use a cross-plane crank. This causes quite a bit of difference in how the engines sound.

ZV

I said it once before, and I'll say it again... the current M3's V8 uses a cross-plane crank.

Now, look at the crankshaft. Compare the farthest one on the right to the one next to it. Those are not on the same plane.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I retract my earlier statement about the M3's crank

 

[TehMac]

Does anyone know if it's possible to install a frame chassis in, say an old 60's mustang? They're unibody construction, and I don't think that is so hot.

What sort of chassis does the M3 use?

 

[EightySix Four]

Does anyone know if it's possible to install a frame chassis in, say an old 60's mustang? They're unibody construction, and I don't think that is so hot.

What sort of chassis does the M3 use?

Here we go again lol.

 

[exdeath]

Does anyone know if it's possible to install a frame chassis in, say an old 60's mustang? They're unibody construction, and I don't think that is so hot.

What sort of chassis does the M3 use?

Unibody with front struts and double wishbone rear, same as IRS equipped Mustangs or pretty much most all cars on the road.

Mustangs (and 3 series to my knowledge) have always been unibody since birth.

What's not hot about it? It's lighter, more rigid, and stronger.

 

[Zenmervolt]

I said it once before, and I'll say it again... the current M3's V8 uses a cross-plane crank.

Now, look at the crankshaft. Compare the farthest one on the right to the one next to it. Those are not on the same plane.

This is why I said, "IIRC" and, "most". I tend to associate flat-plane V8 engines with European manufacturers, but it's been a long time since I actually looked into the specs of one.

ZV

 

[EightySix Four]

This is why I said, "IIRC" and, "most". I tend to associate flat-plane V8 engines with European manufacturers, but it's been a long time since I actually looked into the specs of one.

ZV

It's rare I get a chance to give you a hard time, had to take it

AFAIK, very few manufacturers run flat plane anymore. The majority of those manufacturers being exotics such as Ferrari. Lamborghini has no V8 car right now, TVR is dead, Maserati uses cross plane cranks in Ferrari motors... I can't think of any other exotic manufacturers that do their design in house...

Racing engines are a different story. Audi got into a lot of trouble at one point for saying that a their flat plane crank race car only had a "twisted" crank from a street car thus it still fit the spec series. Lol

 

[Demon-Xanth]

It's rare I get a chance to give you a hard time, had to take it

AFAIK, very few manufacturers run flat plane anymore. The majority of those manufacturers being exotics such as Ferrari. Lamborghini has no V8 car right now, TVR is dead, Maserati uses cross plane cranks in Ferrari motors... I can't think of any other exotic manufacturers that do their design in house...

Racing engines are a different story. Audi got into a lot of trouble at one point for saying that a their flat plane crank race car only had a "twisted" crank from a street car thus it still fit the spec series. Lol

Top Fuelers once experimented with flat cranks but stopped because they had what was described as "a wicked vibration". If you watch top fuelers warming up, you'll start to wonder how bad the vibration is that they would call it wicked. But I'm guessing that they did some recent tests of flat plane cranks in top fuel engines in Haiti, Chile, and Mexicali.

 

[EightySix Four]

Top Fuelers once experimented with flat cranks but stopped because they had what was described as "a wicked vibration". If you watch top fuelers warming up, you'll start to wonder how bad the vibration is that they would call it wicked. But I'm guessing that they did some recent tests of flat plane cranks in top fuel engines in Haiti, Chile, and Mexicali.

Well the gist of it is you are going from 4 v-twins to 2 I4's. I4's aren't exactly known for being vibration free without heavy balancing weights, which I would assume you'd avoid in top fuel.

 

[TehMac]

Here we go again lol.

I'm just curious lol, I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just get answers, that's all.

Unibody with front struts and double wishbone rear, same as IRS equipped Mustangs or pretty much most all cars on the road.

Mustangs (and 3 series to my knowledge) have always been unibody since birth.

What's not hot about it? It's lighter, more rigid, and stronger.

Oh, I thought it would flex a lot more, but I guess you're right. I saw a Corvette chassis as well, and it actually looks like it's a unibody constructed car as well.

I guess I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of a bolt on suspension--I have experienced personally their weakness, but I'm not sure what holds the M3's IRS in place, i.e. how many brackets etc.

 

[EightySix Four]

I'm just curious lol, I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just get answers, that's all.




Oh, I thought it would flex a lot more, but I guess you're right. I saw a Corvette chassis as well, and it actually looks like it's a unibody constructed car as well.

I guess I just don't feel comfortable with the idea of a bolt on suspension--I have experienced personally their weakness, but I'm not sure what holds the M3's IRS in place, i.e. how many brackets etc.

Unibody Solstice

 

[TehMac]

Corvette Chassis looks like

 

[EightySix Four]

Interestingly TehMac, the Sky Redline/Solstice GXP are very close in size/weight to the early Mustangs except for length. Stretch one of those frames and push it under a mustang body

 

[TehMac]

Doesn't dynacorn offer some sort of chassis for '60's muscle car classics? I think so...

I can't imagine a pontiac solstice being any good...

 

[EightySix Four]

Doesn't dynacorn offer some sort of chassis for '60's muscle car classics? I think so...

I can't imagine a pontiac solstice being any good...

Lol, don't say that around me or shabby.

 

[TehMac]

Lol, don't say that around me or shabby.

?????

 

[EightySix Four]

?????

I have a lightly modded Sky Redline (with some fun parts laying around to be installed) and Shabby has a nicely modded Solstice GXP.

 

[TehMac]

Oh I wasn't aware enthusiasts enjoyed that car. Interesting. What I'd like to do to an old gutted mustang is install high grade aluminum frames like what the corvette has and so forth. One thing I was wondering about them was how they make an aluminum frame stronger

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Generally the people that do that go for a tube frame+cage with chro-moloy steel, and basically forget about considering their car a street car.

 

[TehMac]

Generally the people that do that go for a tube frame+cage with chro-moloy steel, and basically forget about considering their car a street car.

Well, I'd forget the cage. I'm not a race car driver... lol

 

[Demon-Xanth]

The cage is usually part of the framework and provides rigidity.

...and that is a "Mustang".

 

[TehMac]

The cage is usually part of the framework and provides rigidity.

...and that is a "Mustang".

Well, the roll cage is pretty explicit, it doesn't look like it's going to be tucked away under the shell or body panels, and it's obstructing entry way into the car.

It also looks like this car is a drag race with probably 700-1000 hp, so I imagine such rigidity would be needed for proper power transfer.

 

[exdeath]

Well, the roll cage is pretty explicit, it doesn't look like it's going to be tucked away under the shell or body panels, and it's obstructing entry way into the car.

It also looks like this car is a drag race with probably 700-1000 hp, so I imagine such rigidity would be needed for proper power transfer.

Try 2000+ HP. That's probably going to be a 6-7 second class outlaw car. Look at the size of that water-air intercooler and the piping, that thing will probable have 500+ cubes and a 100mm+ single turbo at 30+ psi.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Close, two turbos and I believe a small block, but it does mid 6's at about 220-230MPH.

 

[TehMac]

Wow, that is ridiculous lol.