Why is the Ford-Edsel 390 so weak?

[EightySix Four]

If you can pick up that Cyclone GT for me I'd really appreciate it!

If you pay upfront, I'll do it.

 

[TehMac]

If you can pick up that Cyclone GT for me I'd really appreciate it!

I want it :x

Seriously, that Cyclone with a 390, or if you're feeling sassy, a 351 cleveland with new heads...or even a 302 with new heads, that thing will be seriously epic. If anyone buys it, they have to take pics, both before and after restoring.


The '73 Mach 1 Q Code looks pretty cool too, although it needs more aggressive cams, better heads and so forth.

 

[BUTCH1]

I want it :x

Seriously, that Cyclone with a 390, or if you're feeling sassy, a 351 cleveland with new heads...or even a 302 with new heads, that thing will be seriously epic. If anyone buys it, they have to take pics, both before and after restoring.


The '73 Mach 1 Q Code looks pretty cool too, although it needs more aggressive cams, better heads and so forth.

My brother had a '72 Mach one, metallic blue with silver lettering, it was f-ing gorgeous. Interesting in describing the Boss it had a Windsor in it, if I remember the Boss had a fairly ballsy version of the 302, not the Windsor, maybe someone blew the original and installed that one. By '73 the EPA and insurance co's were really on the car makers so a motor of that year may indeed need better heads, my brother's '72 had a Cleveland, dual-points, 4 bolt main ect., it was fairly quick but a friend's 340 duster could beat it (but not by much)..

 

[TehMac]

Good stuff, I wonder if your bro has any pictures, that'd be awesome.

As far as the Boss vs. Windsor 302 goes, the Boss 302 was a Windsor 302 with Cleveland heads and a more aggressive cam. As far as I am aware, that's about as far as the mods went. But new heads from the incoming Cleveland helped a lot.

The Boss 302 was officially rated at 290 bhp, but really produced around 400. Some say more, some less. Magazines said it was the true successor to the '65 GT350.

I wish when Shelby came back to the Mustang that he had toyed with the Eco-boost. His new GT350 is far worse than even the '69 and '70. Complete crap, it's hard to believe this man built the GT350 with just the Mustang shell.

 

[BUTCH1]

Good stuff, I wonder if your bro has any pictures, that'd be awesome.

As far as the Boss vs. Windsor 302 goes, the Boss 302 was a Windsor 302 with Cleveland heads and a more aggressive cam. As far as I am aware, that's about as far as the mods went. But new heads from the incoming Cleveland helped a lot.

The Boss 302 was officially rated at 290 bhp, but really produced around 400. Some say more, some less. Magazines said it was the true successor to the '65 GT350.

I wish when Shelby came back to the Mustang that he had toyed with the Eco-boost. His new GT350 is far worse than even the '69 and '70. Complete crap, it's hard to believe this man built the GT350 with just the Mustang shell.

Sorry but no pics, this was way back in the day. Another friend had a SS 396 camaro (69) which he sold and bought a '70 Boss, he let me drive both and the boss felt lighter on it's feet and almost as quick as the SS 0-60 although to be fair the SS did have a 4:11 rear end..

 

[compman25]

I want it :x

Seriously, that Cyclone with a 390, or if you're feeling sassy, a 351 cleveland with new heads...or even a 302 with new heads, that thing will be seriously epic. If anyone buys it, they have to take pics, both before and after restoring.


The '73 Mach 1 Q Code looks pretty cool too, although it needs more aggressive cams, better heads and so forth.

I was thinking more along the lines of a Jon Kaase 521 Boss Nine with a Frank Merkl C6 backing it up.

 

[TehMac]

I was thinking more along the lines of a Jon Kaase 521 Boss Nine with a Frank Merkl C6 backing it up.

That sounds a bit too...extreme. I hate having to mangle the lines of a mustang so I can fit in a giiigantic engine. I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at, but I just can't understand people who want to do that to their cars.

 

[TehMac]

just an interesting article I found, published back in 2008, but a pretty fascinating read.

They took a 390, put new heads on it, stroked it to around 446 cubic inches and the thing produces around 500 hp--whether or not that is gross or net I'm not sure, but I'd guess it's net.

very cool read, check it out.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Good stuff, I wonder if your bro has any pictures, that'd be awesome.

As far as the Boss vs. Windsor 302 goes, the Boss 302 was a Windsor 302 with Cleveland heads and a more aggressive cam. As far as I am aware, that's about as far as the mods went. But new heads from the incoming Cleveland helped a lot.

The Boss 302 was officially rated at 290 bhp, but really produced around 400. Some say more, some less. Magazines said it was the true successor to the '65 GT350.

I wish when Shelby came back to the Mustang that he had toyed with the Eco-boost. His new GT350 is far worse than even the '69 and '70. Complete crap, it's hard to believe this man built the GT350 with just the Mustang shell.

Boss 302 was nowhere close to 400hp. Lucky if it had 330hp. They were not that fast. The Boss 351 was a bit under-rated....they would dust the hell out of a 302, and they were only rated at 330...now THAT was a low rating.

 

[Pacfanweb]

just an interesting article I found, published back in 2008, but a pretty fascinating read.

They took a 390, put new heads on it, stroked it to around 446 cubic inches and the thing produces around 500 hp--whether or not that is gross or net I'm not sure, but I'd guess it's net.

very cool read, check it out.

500-550hp for 6g's Kind of steep, if you ask me. You can get that out of a 383 Small Block Chevy for less, and will be far more reliable.

Just further proof of what a turd FE engines were.....even with today's technology, they are still behind the curve.

But if you're a Ford fanatic and love those old cars they came in, I think it's a great thing that there are still parts being made for you.

 

[TehMac]

Boss 302 was nowhere close to 400hp. Lucky if it had 330hp. They were not that fast. The Boss 351 was a bit under-rated....they would dust the hell out of a 302, and they were only rated at 330...now THAT was a low rating.

I have read on Howstuffworks.com that their hp was "around 400 hp." Of course that probably means gross hp. Net hp is probably around 370 and then factor in rwhp.

But maybe not, Idk. Considering how people don't think the 302 is much without new heads, then I'm not sure. I know Cleveland heads were better than the Windsors, but I'm not sure if they were 300+ hp better.

 

[Pacfanweb]

They barely broke 15's in the quarter. That doesn't take a gross of 370hp. I'm thinking 325 or so.

 

[TehMac]

They barely broke 15's in the quarter. That doesn't take a gross of 370hp. I'm thinking 325 or so.

Could aerodynamics play a role, or not at those speeds? What about tires, traction bars, any of that stuff?

Or was it that these engines just didn't have the grunt?

 

[Pacfanweb]

Could aerodynamics play a role, or not at those speeds? What about tires, traction bars, any of that stuff?

Or was it that these engines just didn't have the grunt?

Only thing that matters at those times is the engine, and a 302 simply can't produce power in stock form with the Boss heads.....they were WAY too much head for that little engine the way Ford built them.

They needed to turn over 7k rpm's to make any power with those heads.

 

[TehMac]

500-550hp for 6g's Kind of steep, if you ask me. You can get that out of a 383 Small Block Chevy for less, and will be far more reliable.

Just further proof of what a turd FE engines were.....even with today's technology, they are still behind the curve.

Well, I think it's 6G combined costs...so around 3k per engine. But yea that is still steep. At the same time, rebuilding my 3.8L V6 piston heads, lowering compression ratios, and installing two turbos would be around 10k.

 

[compman25]

Well, I think it's 6G combined costs...so around 3k per engine. But yea that is still steep. At the same time, rebuilding my 3.8L V6 piston heads, lowering compression ratios, and installing two turbos would be around 10k.

It was $6k for just the street version, $8.5k for the strip version. The FE is a turd today, you would be way ahead if you spent the money building a 460.

 

[TehMac]

It was $6k for just the street version, $8.5k for the strip version. The FE is a turd today, you would be way ahead if you spent the money building a 460.

I've seen 460 mustangs on youtube, and the owners had to butcher their cars to cram the engine in...that's what it looks like anyway.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I've seen 460 mustangs on youtube, and the owners had to butcher their cars to cram the engine in...that's what it looks like anyway.

You'd have to do the same thing to get an FE engine in a newer Mustang.....if you're going to have to chop it up, might as well go with the better engine.

Or, if you don't want to chop it up, you can always drop a Small Block Chevy in there......then say "Ford makes it, Chevy shakes it".

 

[TehMac]

Or, if you don't want to chop it up, you can always drop a Small Block Chevy in there......then say "Ford makes it, Chevy shakes it".

haha, no I wouldn't do that. I'm not much of one, but the little purist there is inside of me says keep everything Ford/Chevy/Chrysler relative to the type of car.

 

[Pacfanweb]

haha, no I wouldn't do that. I'm not much of one, but the little purist there is inside of me says keep everything Ford/Chevy/Chrysler relative to the type of car.

Most folks won't do that.....I was just giving the Mustang fans the option that gives them the best of both worlds....their favorite car, and the best engine ever made.

 

[compman25]

Most folks won't do that.....I was just giving the Mustang fans the option that gives them the best of both worlds....their favorite car, and the best engine ever made.

You made a mistake then.

 

[Pacfanweb]

You made a mistake then.

Why? Are you one of those foreign car fanboys? Maybe I should have said "Domestic", or "American". That way, there's no doubt.

 

[TehMac]

Most folks won't do that.....I was just giving the Mustang fans the option that gives them the best of both worlds....their favorite car, and the best engine ever made.

Well I wouldn't say the disparity is so far and away dramatic as that.

I'm not trying to make a dragster, just a car with some umph. As it is, I like the classics, but I'd like to make my own tribute of the classics, so I'd only be getting maybe 400 net hp out of whatever engine I'm using. If I were to buy/restore a '69 Mach 1, I'd put in that new Ford block with aluminum intake manifold and heads for example.


If I were trying to be make a 600-900 hp dragster, yea I'd probably use a GM engine.

 

[compman25]

Why? Are you one of those foreign car fanboys? Maybe I should have said "Domestic", or "American". That way, there's no doubt.

Foreign fanboy? Far from it. Just because any idiot can put a SB Chevy together doesn't make it the greatest engine.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Foreign fanboy? Far from it. Just because any idiot can put a SB Chevy together doesn't make it the greatest engine.

You're right....what makes it the greatest engine is that it's won more than any other engine, across more forms of racing.