Why is taxing the rich considered so taboo by the non-rich?

[spidey07]

Government expenditures are nearly half of the GDP. I think it is fair to say that almost all of that money creates jobs. It isn't like the US is taxing people and going out back and burning the cash.

To address the OP's question - It is just a bogeyman argument that people pick up and run with even though they reside in the 99% group. I think it is fair to tax rich people more, since there is less of a burden as they make more money. Those lower class and lower middle class households have little expendable income and their tax rates (fed, state and local - not just income tax) eat up a sizable portion of the money they need to live well. Taxing more as people have more luxuries doesn't hurt their ability to live well, just slows down excess. The main difference is taxation can be a burden for the poor, but only a bother for the rich.

Lower and lower middle class pay no federal income tax and in most instances get a tax credit which is free money. Not a tax rebate, a credit to where their federal income tax liability is negative and they get money from the government. But one can tell what you really want to do, "slow down" people from living well so we all live the same communist life. This is AMERICA, that's not how it's done in this country.

 

[IBMer]

Lower and lower middle class pay no federal income tax and in most instances get a tax credit which is free money. Not a tax rebate, a credit to where their federal income tax liability is negative and they get money from the government. But one can tell what you really want to do, "slow down" people from living well so we all live the same communist life. This is AMERICA, that's not how it's done in this country.

I think you don't know where the Lower middle class starts...

 

[Throckmorton]

Lower and lower middle class pay no federal income tax and in most instances get a tax credit which is free money. Not a tax rebate, a credit to where their federal income tax liability is negative and they get money from the government. But one can tell what you really want to do, "slow down" people from living well so we all live the same communist life. This is AMERICA, that's not how it's done in this country.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

because it's a diversion from the real issue which is closing loopholes.

they can raise taxes all they want but people will still use those loopholes.

 

[Amused]

Something tells me this chart does NOT include the negative outflow created by the earned income tax credit. Anyone in the bottom 50% with kids is getting more back from the government than they paid in federal income taxes.

 

[IBMer]

Something tells me this chart does NOT include the negative outflow created by the earned income tax credit. Anyone in the bottom 50% with kids is getting more back from the government than they paid in federal income taxes.

That would be incorrect. There are several people at my work place making in the 40s that did not get back all of their taxes from the earned income tax credit.

 

[Bowfinger]

My mother-in-law owes federal income tax each year on her $23K pension. The right wing dogma that "Lower and lower middle class pay no federal income tax" is more propaganda used to dupe the ignorant and the ideologues into supporting policies contrary to their own interests.

 

[HendrixFan]

Something tells me this chart does NOT include the negative outflow created by the earned income tax credit. Anyone in the bottom 50% with kids is getting more back from the government than they paid in federal income taxes.

It absolutely does. That is why income tax numbers are so stilted.

The EIC is basically welfare, but the negative taxation is computed into the tax rates so it appears that groups are not shouldering the load as they truly are. If you have two people in the bottom 50% of taxpayers, and one pays $3000 in fed income tax for the year and the other ends up netting $3000 because of the EIC, the statistics will say that they paid no taxes.

There are plenty of handouts from the government, but only the EIC counts as a "tax".

 

[Amused]

That would be incorrect. There are several people at my work place making in the 40s that did not get back all of their taxes from the earned income tax credit.

Okay, I'll concede to that. I may have over stated the % a bit. However, the bottom 40% does, and the rest get back much if not most.

 

[Amused]

It absolutely does. That is why income tax numbers are so stilted.

The EIC is basically welfare, but the negative taxation is computed into the tax rates so it appears that groups are not shouldering the load as they truly are. If you have two people in the bottom 50% of taxpayers, and one pays $3000 in fed income tax for the year and the other ends up netting $3000 because of the EIC, the statistics will say that they paid no taxes.

There are plenty of handouts from the government, but only the EIC counts as a "tax".

But the chart shows income tax RATES. It does not appear to show tax burden AFTER the EIC.

 

[HendrixFan]

Lower and lower middle class pay no federal income tax and in most instances get a tax credit which is free money. Not a tax rebate, a credit to where their federal income tax liability is negative and they get money from the government. But one can tell what you really want to do, "slow down" people from living well so we all live the same communist life. This is AMERICA, that's not how it's done in this country.

I'll try again. The taxation that affects lower and middle class workers becomes burdensome. I'm talking about all levels of taxation, not just some cherry picked one. Afterall, it isn't like the people who "pay" zero in taxes aren't paying medicare and SS taxes which go into the same pot for government expenditures. Not to mention state and local taxes.

When a household has a small percentage of income above what is needed to shelter, clothe and feed a family, yet they pay 20% of their income in taxes it makes a huge difference in their quality of life. The tax, while smaller as a percentage, is tremendously larger in how it negatively impacts the lives of those paying it. It isn't a matter of percentages, it is a matter of impact. And the impact made by taxation is larger for those who have less. Someone who has plenty of money, and pays a larger percentage of income to taxes, will feel less of a burden from it.

 

[HendrixFan]

But the chart shows income tax RATES. It does not appear to show tax burden AFTER the EIC.

It show total tax income, which would be after EIC, deductions, refunds, etc. That is why the total equals 100% of taxes. Sales taxes wouldn't be included until they are received/made.

 

[Attic]

raise tax rates and add decutions. Start taxing sitting money to over certain amounts. add decutions for on shore investment onlys or even purchases.

Basically the rich need to be forced to spend that wealth they have been hogging up back into the economy.

This post deserves a sticky so the board members can see just how scary/stupid the thought behind the progressive movement is.

"The tenet of "progressivism": There is no "problem" that cannot be "solved" by a large & powerful central government which has the power to strip or grant rights as it sees fit, redistribute wealth as it sees fit, and socially engineer its sphere of influence as it sees fit. The ends justify the means, and the end will be "equality" and "happiness" for everyone."

I apologize if your post was made in jest, one can hope.

 

[HendrixFan]

This post deserves a sticky so the board members can see just how scary/stupid the thought behind the progressive movement is.

"The tenet of "progressivism": There is no "problem" that cannot be "solved" by a large & powerful central government which has the power to strip or grant rights as it sees fit, redistribute wealth as it sees fit, and socially engineer its sphere of influence as it sees fit. The ends justify the means, and the end will be "equality" and "happiness" for everyone."

I apologize if your post was made in jest, one can hope.

Agreed, but it is no worse than someone claiming that cutting taxes for the rich helps the poor. Honesty would be better, but it sounds bad to say "its mine - go f yourself".

 

[spidey07]

Agreed, but it is no worse than someone claiming that cutting taxes for the rich helps the poor. Honesty would be better, but it sounds bad to say "its mine - go f yourself".

Then let me make this very, very clear.

It's my fucking money, go F yourself.

I'm dead serious, go F yourself. It's my hard earned money. I don't care about you, the poor or anybody else. It's MY MONEY!

 

[HendrixFan]

Then let me make this very, very clear.

It's my fucking money, go F yourself.

I'm dead serious, go F yourself. It's my hard earned money. I don't care about you, the poor or anybody else. It's MY MONEY!

Hey, I'm happy with the honesty. Seriously. It is the intentional obfuscation of the issue that bothers me (or any other issue).

I personally believe that any gains we see as a society come in large part from the infrastructure we have in place. Standing on the shoulders of giants and whatnot.

As an individual, a big part of me not having to forage through the plains looking for sustenance is the collectivism that society has used to create better things. The interconnectedness of everyone and everything allows for technological advances that put us where we are today.

Do I wish we would slash the budget?

Yes.

Do I wish that politicians kept their hands off of most functions, since they are almost never experts in those fields?

Yes.

But I also feel that there is some need to hold society together, and keep the lowest out of abject despair, and if possible, make them able to contribute to society in some way. Of course, there can be debates over what is "despair", and how much should someone have to extend their hand out to help others. There are many, many, many things wrong with our government as it stands today. I think tax rates for the top 1% are low on the list of issues that need addressed. Arguing over how much they should pay keeps everyone from ignoring the elephant in the room.

Government spending is half of GDP.

Start there and work backwards solving things.

 

[Brainonska511]

Then let me make this very, very clear.

It's my fucking money, go F yourself.

I'm dead serious, go F yourself. It's my hard earned money. I don't care about you, the poor or anybody else. It's MY MONEY!

I'm waiting for the day you move out into the woods and start sending out mail bombs.

 

[LegendKiller]

Then let me make this very, very clear.

It's my fucking money, go F yourself.

I'm dead serious, go F yourself. It's my hard earned money. I don't care about you, the poor or anybody else. It's MY MONEY!

What gave you the ability to earn the money? All of this "stuff" in this country, like modern roads, the internet, and a massive amount of technology, came about from government spending and higher taxes decades ago. Somebody paid higher taxes for you to have the ability to make that money.

Refusing to perpetuate that cycle will deny the cycle to future generations.

You are intellectually dishonest if you think anything but.

 

[CallMeJoe]

...You are intellectually dishonest if you think anything but.

It's not dishonesty, it's derangement.

 

[spidey07]

What gave you the ability to earn the money? All of this "stuff" in this country, like modern roads, the internet, and a massive amount of technology, came about from government spending and higher taxes decades ago. Somebody paid higher taxes for you to have the ability to make that money.

Refusing to perpetuate that cycle will deny the cycle to future generations.

You are intellectually dishonest if you think anything but.

Yes, yes, yes. The tired argument - "Government allows and provides you to make money". You live in new york, so of course you are happy to be able to live and make money, thanks to goverment.

This is the difference. I live in KY where I can sell my services and make a pretty penny with no help.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Yes, yes, yes. The tired argument - "Government allows and provides you to make money". You live in new york, so of course you are happy to be able to live and make money, thanks to goverment.
This is the difference. I live in KY where I can sell my services and make a pretty penny with no help...

...no roads, no schools, no police protection, no fire department...

 

[HendrixFan]

Yes, yes, yes. The tired argument - "Government allows and provides you to make money". You live in new york, so of course you are happy to be able to live and make money, thanks to goverment.

This is the difference. I live in KY where I can sell my services and make a pretty penny with no help.

You weren't born in a hospital? You never drove on a public road? You never attended any public education institution? You never read a book or were taught a class by someone who had a public education? You built your house with your bare hands, refusing to take into account the many marvels of math, science and construction that came via society working together? Just how do you use this internet, you know, the one built by the government and opened up by the government to commercial interests thanks to Al Gore?

 

[Hacp]

My mother-in-law owes federal income tax each year on her $23K pension. The right wing dogma that "Lower and lower middle class pay no federal income tax" is more propaganda used to dupe the ignorant and the ideologues into supporting policies contrary to their own interests.

We're handing out 23K a year. For doing nothing. For not being productive. THIS is what is wrong with this country.

 

[Hacp]

You weren't born in a hospital? You never drove on a public road? You never attended any public education institution? You never read a book or were taught a class by someone who had a public education? You built your house with your bare hands, refusing to take into account the many marvels of math, science and construction that came via society working together? Just how do you use this internet, you know, the one built by the government and opened up by the government to commercial interests thanks to Al Gore?

If I tried to build my own road, government would arrest me and send me to jail.

 

[LegendKiller]

We're handing out 23K a year. For doing nothing. For not being productive. THIS is what is wrong with this country.

Says the guy who lives with his parents.