Why is ID an issue?

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

It's a flashpoint in the vote thing, but why? Everyone needs some form of ID for most things in everyday life. Everyone can get some form of state issued ID issued, at no cost ... or very low cost.

I've always had to show some form of ID at polling places. Can never remember NOT having to. Exception was if the poll worker recognized you as happens in many rural areas. Prior to last year when our regular polling places were open, I'd walk in, say hello to the poll workers I knew, chat about their family for a second, get my ballot, fill it in, scan it through the reader and be out the door in ten minutes or less. This past year with things all different, I walked in and waited 15 minutes or so. When the previous voter left, they'd wave the next up to the counter. On my turn, they asked for my DL, looked at it, scanned it with a card reader on a computer, then handed it back to me. Handed me a ballot, I did my thing and was out a few minutes later.

No muss, no fuss.

I don't understand why people think presenting ID at a polling place is an issue. To me, it ensures one vote per person and that it was at the correct polling place, nothing more. It doesn't exclude anyone, or add any unreasonable burden. It can also help states to determine the percentage of residents who vote.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Search the countless threads already posted here on the same subject. It’s explained over... ame over... and...

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

It’s explained over... ame over... and...

And never provides a real answer. Only ... we don't feel we should need to. Opinions only.

 

[biostud]

It is an American thing, works fine in European democracies.

 

[Leeea]

It's a flashpoint in the vote thing, but why? Everyone needs some form of ID for most things in everyday life. Everyone can get some form of state issued ID issued, at no cost ... or very low cost.

I've always had to show some form of ID at polling places. Can never remember NOT having to. Exception was if the poll worker recognized you as happens in many rural areas. Prior to last year when our regular polling places were open, I'd walk in, say hello to the poll workers I knew, chat about their family for a second, get my ballot, fill it in, scan it through the reader and be out the door in ten minutes or less. This past year with things all different, I walked in and waited 15 minutes or so. When the previous voter left, they'd wave the next up to the counter. On my turn, they asked for my DL, looked at it, scanned it with a card reader on a computer, then handed it back to me. Handed me a ballot, I did my thing and was out a few minutes later.

No muss, no fuss.

I don't understand why people think presenting ID at a polling place is an issue. To me, it ensures one vote per person and that it was at the correct polling place, nothing more. It doesn't exclude anyone, or add any unreasonable burden. It can also help states to determine the percentage of residents who vote.

That is so nice you live in a rural area where everyone has an state issued ID. I also think it is fantastic you did not have to wait 5 hours in line to vote. Now lets talk about reality:


So, things are a bit different in urban areas. That state issued ID card? In most states in urban areas your going to need to make an appointment with heavily understaffed under resourced DMV. To do this, you will first need to print out the appointment paperwork, mail it into the DMV, and wait 4 to 6 weeks for the letter back from the DMV informing you when your appointment is six to nine months from now.

You will then need to take that day off of work. You will need to arrive at the DMV on the day of your appointment early in the morning, well prepared to stand in line outside for about 2 to 4 hours. Once inside, you may be able to sit while you wait an additional 1 to 3 hours. When your number is called you will need to have around $65 in cash (credit card is allowed, but has an extra $3.50 fee). You will also need to have all of your paperwork correct, and without error. Any errors will require you to reschedule your appointment with the DMV. If you get sick, reschedule your appointment. If you are unable to stand in line for six hours? no id for you.

Provided you have everything correct, your photo is taken, and then you are given a temporary state ID, until you get receive your actual card in the mail.



So, what happens if your address changes during this year of this process? What about homeless people? What if you cannot take off of work? What if the address on your ID does not match your current address?

Are you aware most jobs for the lower classes do not offer paid time off? These days people are temporary labor, provisioned by staffing agencies. I worked for one international who bragged about how everyone below a manager was a temp. They missed a day of work, and they were sent to a different far less desirable job. Expendable, replaceable, and lacking any innate value in the view of management. oh, and fyi, the management was all white. This is what manufacturing in the USA has become in many places. The sacrifice required to vote is far greater for a temp then it will ever be for you.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

^^^ You're assuming that the vast majority of people don't already have a photo ID of some form. Which is incorrect. By age 20, it is reasonably unlikely that a person can function in society without an ID. And no one says it has to be issued by any given state's version of DMV. Many Federal IDs are acceptable including Veterans. I got a Veteran's ID by mail, no office visit required.

You're making excuses, not providing real answers.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

It's not an issue of race, availability, cost or where a person lives. It's an issue of 'I don't feel I should have to. Everyone should trust me when I say who I am and where I live.'

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

^^^ You're assuming that the vast majority of people don't already have a photo ID of some form. Which is incorrect. By age 20, it is reasonably unlikely that a person can function in society without an ID. And no one says it has to be issued by any given state's version of DMV. Many Federal IDs are acceptable including Veterans. I got a Veteran's ID by mail, no office visit required.

You're making excuses, not providing real answers.

But that is an answer. Not the only one, but it is an answer. You don't get to call it an excuse just because you don't like it.

Better question: what problem are voter ID laws trying to solve, and are they more likely to suppress voter turnout than solve problems (thus redefining their true purpose)?

 

[mikeymikec]

It's a flashpoint in the vote thing, but why? Everyone needs some form of ID for most things in everyday life.

Really? The only time I can think of in recent memory that I was asked for ID was when I was picking up a parcel.

Brit here: We don't need ID when voting, why do you? It's not as if America even has a history of voter fraud.

I think what you really need to do is make yourself work from the beginning: What problem with voting needs solving? None. End of that discussion.

For a bonus prize you can mull over why Republicans constantly want to act like this is a crisis that needs solving and dreaming up ways of restricting voting.

For another bonus prize you can mull over why the average person allegedly has a burning desire to commit voter fraud, and what the risk/reward factors are. To make any meaningful difference to most elections in developed countries, many thousands of fraudulent votes would have to be cast.

As for why voter ID is an issue, it's because it's a tactic devised to discourage people from voting. Arrange your day to vote, get in a queue, wait for ages, realise you forgot your ID. Do you give up and go home? Do you have time to vote along with everything else you need to do that day? While I insist on taking my phone, keys and wallet (containing ID) with me almost every time I leave the house, many people don't.

I'm sure that if you put your mind to it, you can think of other bureaucratic hoops to make would-be voters jump through in order to vote, and you can also probably think of a similarly 'reasonable' reason for the pointless measure.

In the UK, each registered voter gets a card through the door a few weeks before voting time. You could mandate that voters take that card with them instead, stick a unique ID/barcode on the card, job done. Still though, why bother?

 

[Leeea]

^^^ You're assuming that the vast majority of people don't already have a photo ID of some form. Which is incorrect. By age 20, it is reasonably unlikely that a person can function in society without an ID. And no one says it has to be issued by any given state's version of DMV. Many Federal IDs are acceptable including Veterans. I got a Veteran's ID by mail, no office visit required.

You're making excuses, not providing real answers.

I am not talking about the vast majority. I am not talking about the white middle class.

I am talking about the urban poor. The people who take the bus to work. Something I am sure you have never done. They do not get drivers ed in high school. They do not get the ID your referring to. They frequently do not have a bank account, but cash their check at the grocery store. They will have a social security card + non-legal id (frequently their high school id). Most do not have their birth certificate. If your family is forced to move twice a year for work, odds are that box is going to get lost sooner or later.

Review the actual documents required to get a job:

Form I-9 Acceptable Documents | USCIS

Employees must provide documentation to their employers to show their identity and authorization to work.

www.uscis.gov

Pick one for B and one from C. Typically it is high school id + social security card. A combination that will not allow you to vote.

The fact you cannot conceive how 11%* of the people in the USA live does not make their life any less valid in then yours. They should have the same right to vote as you, but they do not. By design. Their right to vote has been stripped by a combination of racism, exploiting the poor, and ignorance. Personally, I would hope you are in the ignorant category.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/what-happens-to-people-who-cant-prove-who-they-are/2017/06/14/fc0aaca2-4215-11e7-adba-394ee67a7582_story.html

As of 2006, according to New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice, up to 11 percent of U.S. adults had no government-provided photo ID. Since then, federal requirements for IDs have grown tougher, contributing to a loop that can help keep people trapped in poverty.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I am not talking about the vast majority. I am not talking about the white middle class.

I am talking about the urban poor. The people who take the bus to work. Something I am sure you have never done. They do not get drivers ed in high school. They do not get the ID your referring to. They frequently do not have a bank account, but cash their check at the grocery store.

The fact you cannot conceive how 20% of the people in the USA live does not make their life any less valid in then yours. They should have the same right to vote as you, but they do not. By design. There right to vote has been stripped by a combination of racism, exploiting the poor, and ignorance. Personally, I would hope you are in the ignorant category.

In addition to that, the whole point is that by putting a barrier in front of voting, it permits other barriers. We've already got felons, how about those who haven't paid taxes yet this year? No representation without taxation after all. Maybe just those with good credit? Wouldn't want the 'wrong people' voting.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

You don't get to call it an excuse just because you don't like it.

Better question: what problem are voter ID laws trying to solve, and are they more likely to suppress voter turnout than solve problems (thus redefining their true purpose)?

'I don't want to because I don't think I should have to because I don't having to prove who I am' is not a valid reason.

It ensures one ballot per person.

As for why voter ID is an issue, it's because it's a tactic devised to discourage people from voting.

In the UK, each registered voter gets a card through the door a few weeks before voting time. You could mandate that voters take that card with them instead, stick a unique ID/barcode on the card, job done. Still though, why bother?

Ensuring one ballot per person at the proper polling place is not 'discouraging people from voting.'


ID ... don't leave home without it.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

In addition to that, the whole point is that by putting a barrier in front of voting, it permits other barriers.

Having an ID is not a barrier of any kind.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Having an ID is not a barrier of any kind.

the barrier which nobody has answered is who decides the ID is legitimate?
That is the main thing.

 

[Leeea]

ID ... don't leave home without it.

I already showed 11% of US citizens do not have a government issued photo id.


SO HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO LEAVE HOME WITH IT?!


-------------------------------

Have you checked out the requirements? Here you go:

REAL ID Checklist - California DMV

www.dmv.ca.gov

Fyi, you take that birth certificate for granted, but I am unable to get one. Lucky me though, I hold a valid US passport showing I am a citizen. Grandfathered into the law by the skin of my teeth. whew. wait. THAT IS FUCKING CLOSE TO BEING STUFFED IN THE NO-ID HELL THE REPUBLICANS CREATED!!!

Oh, and my social security card showing I have been a citizen since I was born in the USA? Does not mean shit. My state issued drivers license? Not good enough anymore. It is all RealID these days.

 

[ch33zw1z]

the barrier which nobody has answered is who decides the ID is legitimate?
That is the main thing.

And what it takes to get one. States that are now just outright suppressing voters will simply raise the bar to get said ID. It's all pieces of the same puzzle.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Having an ID is not a barrier of any kind.

That's your opinion. People have presented why it would be a barrier, over and over, if you choose to stick your head in the sand....that's on you.

 

[mikeymikec]

Ensuring one ballot per person at the proper polling place is not 'discouraging people from voting.'

You clearly read all of my post, but you chose not to address the most important point in it.

 

[dingster1]

These laws being passed are straight Jim Crow. BIPOC folks know and recognize this old game in a new suit. If you’ve never had to fight for any rights you DON’T get to tell those who do whats true and not. Take several seats with that foolishness.

 

[Fenixgoon]

'I don't want to because I don't think I should have to because I don't having to prove who I am' is not a valid reason.

It ensures one ballot per person.




Ensuring one ballot per person at the proper polling place is not 'discouraging people from voting.'


ID ... don't leave home without it.

We already ensure 1 vote per person. Voter fraud on any meaningful scale does not exist in the US.

When I googled this, the first link was to the Heritage Foundation, which I found amusing. Their key takeaway was hundreds of convictions have been made. What they left out is that that is across billions of ballots cast. Voter fraud is on the scale of 1/1,000,000 or less. You're never going to have absolutely 0 voter fraud, and with the way we currently conduct our elections, attempts to that end are going to remove far more voters from the pool than invalid ballots cast. But that's the whole goal, isn't it?

The Myth of Voter Fraud

Extensive research reveals that fraud is very rare. Yet repeated, false allegations of fraud can make it harder for millions of eligible Americans to participate in elections.

www.brennancenter.org

(Here's the heritage foundation link just for amusement https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/heritage-explains/voter-fraud)

So we're creating additional barriers to voting that aren't needed. It's disenfranchisement under the guide of security theater.

Oppose Voter ID Legislation - Fact Sheet | American Civil Liberties Union

www.aclu.org

As already stated, ID requirements affect people who are poor/homeless the most, but even rural locations aren't exempt (if the nearest DMV is hours away, getting an ID is a much bigger problem than if it's a few minutes away).

It costs time and money to get an ID, both of which you aren't going to have a lot of if you're poor.

And who lacks ID? Up to 25% black people vs 8% white.

 

[fskimospy]

'I don't want to because I don't think I should have to because I don't having to prove who I am' is not a valid reason.

It ensures one ballot per person.




Ensuring one ballot per person at the proper polling place is not 'discouraging people from voting.'


ID ... don't leave home without it.

Since you are the person arguing for addition restrictions on the right to vote the burden is on you to justify them.

The only thing voter ID protects against is in-person voter fraud where someone comes and impersonates another voter and gets away with it. Show us the data that indicates this is a problem that needs to be solved.

If you can’t show us this data, I assume you will agree voter ID is unnecessary. Correct?

 

[Pohemi]

Everyone can get some form of state issued ID issued, at no cost ... or very low cost.

I don't understand why people think presenting ID at a polling place is an issue. To me, it ensures one vote per person and that it was at the correct polling place, nothing more. It doesn't exclude anyone, or add any unreasonable burden.

^^^ You're assuming that the vast majority of people don't already have a photo ID of some form. Which is incorrect.
You're making excuses, not providing real answers.

It's not an issue of race, availability, cost or where a person lives. It's an issue of 'I don't feel I should have to. Everyone should trust me when I say who I am and where I live.'

Having an ID is not a barrier of any kind.

I am not talking about the vast majority. I am not talking about the white middle class.
I am talking about the urban poor.
The fact you cannot conceive how 11%* of the people in the USA live does not make their life any less valid in then yours. They should have the same right to vote as you, but they do not. By design. Their right to vote has been stripped by a combination of racism, exploiting the poor, and ignorance. Personally, I would hope you are in the ignorant category.

These laws being passed are straight Jim Crow. BIPOC folks know and recognize this old game in a new suit. If you’ve never had to fight for any rights you DON’T get to tell those who do whats true and not. Take several seats with that foolishness.

Yeah, he obviously woke up extra stupid this morning.
He asks a question, ignores any and all valid answers, sticks his fingers in his ears, and stomps his feet.

Major false equivalencies of, "If it wasn't an issue for ME, then it can't be an issue for anyone across the fucking nation."

This is a prime example of not knowing reality outside of your own little private Idaho.

Edit: to be fair...I don't believe requiring photo ID in order to vote is all that unreasonable, but the obstacles to obtaining that ID needs to be removed and streamlined, even subsidized. And federal voting days made holidays.

Why won't it happen? Because it would primarily be helping the same people that Republicans are trying to constantly disenfranchise and keep from the polls, primarily minorities and lower-income folks.

 

[pauldun170]

^^^ You're assuming that the vast majority of people don't already have a photo ID of some form. Which is incorrect. By age 20, it is reasonably unlikely that a person can function in society without an ID. And no one says it has to be issued by any given state's version of DMV. Many Federal IDs are acceptable including Veterans. I got a Veteran's ID by mail, no office visit required.

You're making excuses, not providing real answers.

You don't need a state ID or any photo ID to function in American society. State ID also expires and needs to be renewed regularly.
People get by just fine without having to get state ID.
You generally NEED a social security # and birth certificate to function in society.
Neither cost money and both are non-expiring.

 

[eelw]

But that 11% being quoted, what percentage of them actually do vote? It's not like they need new ID each election. Okay they can't vote in upcoming election, if they want to do their civic duty to vote, they'll take the time effort and cost to get it done that one time to allow them to vote in the future.

Note, I'm Canadian. So don't get the halfass procedures Americans have to go through.

 

[allisolm]

A large majority (70%) of our states have voter ID regulations so, right or wrong, they don't feel it is unnecessary.

Voter identification laws by state

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org