Why is an "Assault Weapons" Ban even on the table?

[JohnOfSheffield]

Regardless of your own opinions about the AR platform John, you're not naive enough to think that lawmakers are going to ban a specific named rifle or platform? That would be the easiest ban to skirt; gun makers could simply change the name, and the AR shares enough common parts and design principles with other non-"assault" rifles that it could still exist in some form after the ban.

Lawmakers are going for a very broad type of ban; really anything that isn't bolt-action is going to fall under its scope. A SCAR17 and AR-15 are nothing alike, but both would be affected by the ban even though one is a superior platform in your eye.

Of course not, i'm not American so i don't argue based on law or such of the US, i'm making a specific statement about shitty firearms in the hands of civilians.

Just to be clear, while i think several issues of the Tavor are excellent firearms i would still say they are useless for civilian use, just as useless as an AR-15, the only difference is that the Tavor is an excellent weapon for military use.

Do you get my point, while i do hate the AR-15 it's not the reason why i'm saying civilians shouldn't have access to it, it's because civilians have no use for this type of weapon, it's not a good weapon for civilian use.

A proper hunting rifle with a proper sight will be the best choice for hunting, it's not a coincidence that it's called a "hunting rifle". A shotgun will be an excellent weapon for smaller game.

I'm fine with everyone having such weapons and storing them properly, i don't mind that at all, in fact i'm fine with people having all sorts of weapons as long as they are stored properly, active parts locked up in a safe.

People use Switzerland as an example of how everyone having a fully automatic rifle is not a problem but in Switzerland they are properly secured, in the US it's legal to have your fully loaded firearm stored just about anywhere.

You can't resell your gun privately in Switzerland either, in fact you can't take it out of the secured lockup and assemble it unless you're ordered to.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

The reason our murder rate is so high has to do with how our society perceives violence in relation to everything else.

Australia, a shining example of a nation without gun violence, is the definition of a nanny state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia

They heavily censor everything from violence to pornography in all forms of media. Games like L4D2, Fallout 3 and Grand Theft Auto were banned or censored. They banned small breasts in pornography because it had some kind of underage tone to it.

The United States censors very little. We take pride in our First Amendment rights to say, watch, or play whatever we want. Now, I admit, we definitely do have an issue with bad parenting in this nation. Too many parents let their adolecent children play/watch/listen to mature 18+ rated content, and that's feeding the desensitization of our youth. We can do better in that area. But I don't think we need to go the nanny-state route like Australia quite yet.

I'm okay with the 3.6 per 100,000 firearms-related homicide rate, because we've been steadily cutting it down since the early 1990s (it's about half what it used to be). I think there is further progress to be made, but not at the expense of our liberties.

Did you just use Australia as a deflection? Do you think that is helpful at all? Do you think it's relevant?

UK censors less, A LOT LESS and yet the US has 100 TIMES as many murders by gun violence as we do.

ALL EU Nations censor LESS than the US... your idiocy knows no bounds.

Of course you're ok with it, until it affects YOUR daughter or son or wife or parent or sister or what have you, i'm pretty sure you'd be less ok with it after that happens.

But hey, spoken like a true American, if it didn't happen to me it doesn't matter...

 

[HumblePie]

JoS,

Again, you are making assumption our your ass without knowledge.

First, as an Englishman, you can't appreciate WHY we allow citizens in our country to own guns. It is NOT for hunting purposes as you keep implying. That is just a nice thing to have. It is specifically to allow citizens to have a means of defense against our own government or an invading one if need be. THAT was how we pushed your fore fathers out of here in the first place. The common man owning a gun, that was tried to be taken away by English imperialist, who stood up and said NO. And then shot your fore fathers dead. We asked them nicely first to see reason. We pleaded, bargained, and begged. Then we brought out the guns once all other means of peace were tried.

The purpose of gun ownership in America is to keep the government in check. Anything extra legal use such as hunting or protecting one's home from a burglar is just a bonus.

Why don't we allow citizens to own nuclear bombs? Because idiot nuclear bombs can not be controlled to kill 1 person or a small group of people. By nature they are weapons of MASS destruction. They can not be used for protection or defense. By the very nature of weapons of mass destruction is to have collateral damage that can't be controlled or avoided. So as military grade firearms get better, citizens are allowed access to the same items to keep our government in check. We can by as citizens everything short of nuclear and chemical bombs that can't be used as defensive items by their very nature.

 

[sigurros81]

Common or not what is the point of an AR-15? Really. I dont hate on guns but what is the need of a military grade gun for non-military use? Other than the fact the "constitution" says we can?

After a nice hot shower, I like to take my AR-15 and put it next to my penis to see which is longer.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

JoS,

Again, you are making assumption our your ass without knowledge.

First, as an Englishman, you can't appreciate WHY we allow citizens in our country to own guns. It is NOT for hunting purposes as you keep implying. That is just a nice thing to have. It is specifically to allow citizens to have a means of defense against our own government or an invading one if need be. THAT was how we pushed your fore fathers out of here in the first place. The common man owning a gun, that was tried to be taken away by English imperialist, who stood up and said NO. And then shot your fore fathers dead. We asked them nicely first to see reason. We pleaded, bargained, and begged. Then we brought out the guns once all other means of peace were tried.

The purpose of gun ownership in America is to keep the government in check. Anything extra legal use such as hunting or protecting one's home from a burglar is just a bonus.

Why don't we allow citizens to own nuclear bombs? Because idiot nuclear bombs can not be controlled to kill 1 person or a small group of people. By nature they are weapons of MASS destruction. They can not be used for protection or defense. By the very nature of weapons of mass destruction is to have collateral damage that can't be controlled or avoided. So as military grade firearms get better, citizens are allowed access to the same items to keep our government in check. We can by as citizens everything short of nuclear and chemical bombs that can't be used as defensive items by their very nature.

LOL, as usual all of your points are previously responded to, go have a look and if you want a discussion, quote them and respond to them.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

After a nice hot shower, I like to take my AR-15 and put it next to my penis to see which is longer.

Us Jews invented the UZI and the Mini Tavor, you know why?

We have no need to compensate for anything.

 

[DrPizza]

More people drown in back yard swimming pools each year than are killed with assault weapons.

Why are we talking about banning assault weapons instead of banning back yard swimming pools?

 

[jpeyton]

ALL EU Nations censor LESS than the US... your idiocy knows no bounds.

EU nations censor more violence but are more sexually liberal, which is the opposite of what we have in the US (we censor Janet Jackson's boob but have horrific gore in prime time TV). EU nations have a better balance, and while I hope we don't completely censor violence in our media, we need to better restrict what is made available to developing children under 16.

Of course you're ok with it, until it affects YOUR daughter or son or wife or parent or sister or what have you, i'm pretty sure you'd be less ok with it after that happens.

Already asked and answered. You and I have a fundamental disagreement on who to blame. I would blame the criminal first and foremost. Some may even go as far as to blame their parents, friends, bullies at school, siblings, doctors. Some go further and try to blame the system that failed them, like our health care system, or education system, etc. It takes a special kind of idiot to start blaming inanimate objects, like video games, movies, music, and firearms. Because all around the world, every single day, we have people subjected to the same movies, music, video games, firearms, bullies, shitty parents/friends/siblings, and failed support from society. Those people never murder anybody.

So ultimately I blame the criminal.

But hey, spoken like a true American, if it didn't happen to me it doesn't matter...

At least I'm honest about it instead of pretending my heart bleeds for every dying person on this planet.

It doesn't. The media tries to build a personal connection between you and every dead body they can get their cameras on. What happened in CT is horrible, but it's really a local issue they can deal with at the state level if they want to.

 

[Incorruptible]

More people drown in back yard swimming pools each year than are killed with assault weapons.

Why are we talking about banning assault weapons instead of banning back yard swimming pools?

Agreed. Its total hypocrisy from them, people should also know how many children drown in the bathtub every year as well.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

More people drown in back yard swimming pools each year than are killed with assault weapons.

Why are we talking about banning assault weapons instead of banning back yard swimming pools?

Clearly having 100x the amount of homicides per capita due to gun violence isn't enough?

Accidents will happen, indeed, homicides are NOT accidents.

Do you believe, honestly, that the extreme amount of homicides per year in the US due to gun violence has nothing to do with the legal availability of guns?

Look, you know i think you're a good guy and an intelligent man but the excuse for intentional homicide due to the availability of guns is NOT diminished by the drowning accidents.

Since i know you're an intelligent man, i know you already know that which makes me question your approach.

You should tell me to piss off because i'm not a yank. That would help your case just as much.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

EU nations censor more violence but are more sexually liberal, which is the opposite of what we have in the US (we censor Janet Jackson's boob but have horrific gore in prime time TV). EU nations have a better balance, and while I hope we don't completely censor violence in our media, we need to better restrict what is made available to developing children under 16.

I'm sorry but there is no actual censorship of ANYTHING, no approval committee to decide and no actual rules for who sees what or at what time it is aired. This goes for violence as well as nudity.

Full frontal naked girl shot five times in the head been dead for five weeks with maggots crawling out of her head is uncensored as a whole scene in Europe, broadcasted at 13.00 on public tv networks.

Already asked and answered. You and I have a fundamental disagreement on who to blame. I would blame the criminal first and foremost. Some may even go as far as to blame their parents, friends, bullies at school, siblings, doctors. Some go further and try to blame the system that failed them, like our health care system, or education system, etc. It takes a special kind of idiot to start blaming inanimate objects, like video games, movies, music, and firearms. Because all around the world, every single day, we have people subjected to the same movies, music, video games, firearms, bullies, shitty parents/friends/siblings, and failed support from society. Those people never murder anybody.

So ultimately I blame the criminal.


At least I'm honest about it instead of pretending my heart bleeds for every dying person on this planet.

It doesn't. The media tries to build a personal connection between you and every dead body they can get their cameras on. What happened in CT is horrible, but it's really a local issue they can deal with at the state level if they want to.

This is such a fucking cop out... i'm not blaming anyone but the criminal, i'm trying to understand HOW it happened and HOW it can be PREVENTED from happening AGAIN and you have LOADS of excuses, but the obvious one eludes you. Not because you don't already know but because you hate it. Guns do kill people, the more available guns the more likely that a perpetrator will get a hold of one, it's proven by ALL statistics.

I'm not saying you should limit guns, but for fucks sakes, make sure that no one but the owner can get to them, secure weapon lockers are a good thing which is a proven fact by Switzerland. But nah, you need your guns handy since you live downtown Fallujah and may just need to shoot someone at any given time.

I wish you wouldn't play this dishonest game with me because it will do you fuck all of nothing.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Agreed. Its total hypocrisy from them, people should also know how many children drown in the bathtub every year as well.

There you go DrPizza, Incorruptible agrees with you...

I win.

 

[sigurros81]

Us Jews invented the UZI and the Mini Tavor, you know why?

We have no need to compensate for anything.

Funny, of all the racist stereotypes I hear about the Jewish people, I never hear anything about big penises.

 

[Incorruptible]

There you go DrPizza, Incorruptible agrees with you...

I win.

Why cant I agree with him, he makes a good point.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Funny, of all the racist stereotypes I hear about the Jewish people, I never hear anything about big penises.

Mostly because while they get the mutilated penises a la Allah and Moses they don't want to admit that it didn't make it as big as ours.

Black people have their inferiority complex so they don't mention it and asians... Anyway white women know.

That is why any woman prefers a Jew, whits and blacks says it's because we're rich but it's all penis envy.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Why cant I agree with him, he makes a good point.

You can agree, but as soon as you do, they are wrong because anything you agree on is per definition wrong.

It has to do with you being a daft twat.

 

[cwjerome]

Nothing like a quality discussion about cool guns and big penises. RAWR!

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

More people drown in back yard swimming pools each year than are killed with assault weapons.

Why are we talking about banning assault weapons instead of banning back yard swimming pools?

Why do we keep making ridiculous comparisons like these? Until people are using swimming pools as murder weapons it's not going to be heavily regulated.

Radiation poisoning deaths are not common, yet we make sure there are tons of safety nets in place and regulations so you don't walk into glowing uranium rod.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Nothing like a quality discussion about cool guns and big penises. RAWR!

Not my fault i was born a Jew with some standards for a good gun.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Why do we keep making ridiculous comparisons like these? Until people are using swimming pools as murder weapons it's not going to be heavily regulated.

Radiation poisoning deaths are not common, yet we make sure there are tons of safety nets in place and regulations so you don't walk into glowing uranium rod.

Knowing DrPizza as a smart man i think he was being sarcastic... i fell for it too.

He's probably laughing his arse off over a glass of scotch right now.

 

[davmat787]

Nothing like a quality discussion about cool guns and big penises. RAWR!

Any thread is doomed once JohnOfSheffield starts in and people reply to him, the fucking troll.

 

[davmat787]

Why do we keep making ridiculous comparisons like these? Until people are using swimming pools as murder weapons it's not going to be heavily regulated.

Radiation poisoning deaths are not common, yet we make sure there are tons of safety nets in place and regulations so you don't walk into glowing uranium rod.

I don't think these kind of examples are for direct comparison. Rather they are simply to provide some perspective on the numbers.

Afterall, if an object that is not created to kill people actually does kill more people than guns do, which are designed to kill, what does that say? Probably different things to different people.

 

[qliveur]

And FullOfShitfield is at it again.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Any thread is doomed once JohnOfSheffield starts in and people reply to him, the fucking troll.

Do you have a problem with me personally? If so take it to PM.

I can't remember you from any discussion, but then again irrelevant fucktards don't stick to my mind.

I've presented my viewpoints in a clear an coherent way and had a discussion based on my experiences and here you are...

Yelling at me as if you were my ex wife, take it to PM or shut the FUCK UP, son.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

And FullOfShitfield is at it again.

YAY, another retard that doesn't want to have anything to do with the thread but replies just the same.

Let me guess, you're davemats fucktoy?