Why INCEST is wrong? Give me ur views.

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Alex

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 1999
6,995
0
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<< Hey, I've got no problems with it, so long as it's between two consenting adults... >>



i agree

but as long as its just cousins... brother sister is just too close.... i mean if ya never known eachother then ok i guess

dunno

lucky for me all my siblings and cousins are male so i wont have to worry about this kinda thing :D
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
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<< Ever hear of inbreeding? Most people have a decent array of recessive genes that would be harmful if expressed, but generally are not. UNLESS, you reproduce inside your genetic "family circle", then everyone else has most of the same recessives you do and the odds of them being expressed in the offspring are much higher. Very small gene pool = three-legged, blueish, retarded children. see also: West Virginia.

--

First off, we are socially conditioned to think it is wrong. I'd also wager that there's a semi-instinctual component to that revulsion as well since if all species made a habit of inbreeding they would slowly self-destruct with the increasing rates of birth defects.

--

In short, it's an evolutionary mechanism designed to prolong the survival of one's species. So stop kissing your cousins

--

I think that given our societal influences if you really do want to screw your sister chances are high that you have some major problems, since it is so tabboo - and if you're willing to do it what else is wrong with you? But really other than that I can't see any really "bad" reason.
>>



A lot of you have said that it shouldn't be done because it's bad for the species, bad for reproduction, bad for the gene pool, etc. This leads me to ask: What do you think of homosexuality?

With homosexuality, there is *no* chance for the species or the gene pool to continue and *no* chance for reproduction. I bet if someone made a thread titled "Why homosexuality is wrong?" they'd get flamed for a few minutes, then it would get locked...

Furthermore, she (as apparently, Juniper is a female) didn't ask "Is it wrong?" but rather "why is it wrong?" I'm assuming she also thinks it's wrong (forgive me if you don't) but is looking for why society thinks it's wrong.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
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hmmmm any reason why more people would view cousins relationship more okay than bro-sis?

probably because it "feels" like dating outside family.

many people don't do incest not because everyoe says it is wrong, but simply because you just don't want to...
you don't find your sis attractive, in fact you hate your sis....etc

the "don't want to" factor is there a lot of time even when we are talking about people out there. like "i don't want to ask her out because she's 'rental" or "i don't want to ask her out because i find her size repulsive" oh oh "i don't want to ask her out because i rather be with beautiful people"

 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
What two consenting adults do behind their own doors is their business

I have no problem with it just don't expect me to chip in when they have deformed children.

Actually went to high school with 2 people who were first cousins and had been boyfriend-girlfriend for years. I think her parents had a problem with it at first but hoped eventually they would grow out of it...a couple of years later they hadn't.

The bible is filled with so many statements that contradict each other...look for the thread on Adam & Eve/incest

The only real reason why it is wrong(religion doesn't count as it is just one persons belief or opinion) is the genetic abnormalities that appear when people of close familial relations produce offspring

Everything else is learned from society and religion


....as if Marcia and Greg weren't bumping uglies...j/k
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
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<< A lot of you have said that it shouldn't be done because it's bad for the species, bad for reproduction, bad for the gene pool, etc. This leads me to ask: What do you think of homosexuality?
With homosexuality, there is *no* chance for the species or the gene pool to continue and *no* chance for reproduction. I bet if someone made a thread titled "Why homosexuality is wrong?" they'd get flamed for a few minutes, then it would get locked...
Furthermore, she (as apparently, Juniper is a female) didn't ask "Is it wrong?" but rather "why is it wrong?" I'm assuming she also thinks it's wrong (forgive me if you don't) but is looking for why society thinks it's wrong.
>>



yes very interesting point.

so like she said, let's remove the question of 'reproduction'

this then becomes a social reason.... just like the issue of homosexuality
 

Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
16,524
29
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<< Incestuous relationships does not always involve plans with having children. So, would you approve of a sibling couple living together? >>


All right, here's my take on this. First of all, it's just wrong, plain and simple.

However, you've asked, so I'll do my best to answer. Nature dictates that for a species to survive, the bloodlines must be strong. Inbreeding weakens those bloodlines (causing disease, deformities, and reinforcing weaker genes), so in essence, incest goes against what nature dictates. The reason people feel like puking when they think of such relationships is because it goes against the grain (kind of like the idea of eating rotten meat causes people to gag).

Now, say the incestuous couple plans on having no children, as you said. Instinct and moral conditioning should still trigger bad vibes. Failing that, however, I guess you're asking if it'd be ok as long as no children were brought into this world. My response to this is that the answer to this question will vary from person to person, but I myself think it is still wrong.

<Edit>Re-reading through, the issue of homosexuality has been brought into it. Going back to the nature theme, one could say homosexuality can be viewed as a population control (obviously homosexuals will not be reproducing and expanding the population), with no threat to the bloodlines or gene pool. Incest, on the other hand, while one could argue that it is a form of population control, nevertheless promotes poor breeding, and any resulting offspring could spread the faulty genes.

From a social standpoint, as I said above, the views will vary from person to person. I have no problem with homosexuality. I have a problem with incest.

I'll throw something else into the mix. What about love? Is it wrong to prevent two people who love each other from being together? the difference between family love and romantic love??
 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
4,611
0
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Hi Juniper,

Interesting question. It was eye-opening to read through all the gut responses, as well as noting how many people indeed post to a thread without so much as reading/understanding the original post nor any of the previous replies. "Incest is wrong because it's SICK!" is not a valid answer to your question. It's a gut reaction. While I could just answer your original question, I think it would be more interesting to figure out why you got so few real, logical, well-thought-out answers to it.

Human beings are not completely free from instinctual behavior. In fact, it takes a certain degree of will-power to change any of the instincts we were born with. Thankfully, we do possess this will-power (otherwise we would not be human, right?). But usually with it comes a responsibility of when it's appropriate to use it (i.e. you should override instincts that would/could lead to personal harm or injury). A good example: We are born with the instinct to take a crap wherever and whenever the urge is there. Fecal matter is a harbor for harmful bacteria (e.coli comes to mind), and could therefore be deadly to us if left out in the open (or on our person), so we've overridden that behavior by learning and accepting as normal that it should be flushed away (or otherwise isolated). Furthermore (perhaps as an added protection) we've "changed" the instinct... as we arise out of infancy, we also take on the notion that fecal matter is disgusting... it smells awful, it's not to be touched or even seen... just "nasty" would be the gut reaction. Why is that our gut reaction? It's an added protection to ensure that we don't try to revert to unhealthy behavior of taking a dump wherever we want to (including in our clothing). It basically ensures we'll always want to get it out of us and as far away as possible.

OK, so here we have another phenomenon--sexual intercourse (the sole purpose being procreation) amongst blood relatives. Let's not lose sight of the fact here that sexual intercourse is a mechanism with which to propagate the species. The pleasure aspect of it is just a bonus, designed to make us want to propagate the species. Only beings with free-will would want to/be able to circumvent the procreation aspect of intercourse and make it purely recreation. Anyway, the way DNA is "programmed" is such that it works best when as much variety is introduced as possible. Why do you think that Mutt dogs are usually so much healthier than pure breeds? It's because they contain diverse DNA... it's just a fact. A being created from two other beings in the same gene pool will express genes that could lead to retardation or other undesirable traits. Humans learned early on (or perhaps have always known) the undesirability of offspring that are deformed and/or retarded... thus, aversion to procreation with blood relatives is an instinct present in all of us. Not only do we "know" it is wrong, but we have those extra safeguards... it's "nasty", "disgusting", "sick"... blah blah blah... all the gut responses you've seen in this thread already. There's no effort to overpower this instinct because that has the potential to cause harm. Don't forget the fact that sexual intercourse is a mechanism for bringing more children into this world. Children from incestual relationships are usually deformed and/or retarded. Therefore, we have instincts against incestual relationships... with these extra safe-guards to ensure that our will doesn't overpower said instincts.

Most people will not go beyond their gut-reaction (hence the majority of the replies you received). It would be the same if you asked "why is eating your feces wrong?"--you would receive similar results. For me, I've always sought a complete understanding of everything... in fact I've asked this same question about incest to myself, and I would never be satisfied with "it just is" or "it's sick, disgusting, perverted". Neither of those answers address the reasons WHY we think it's wrong or sick or nasty or whatever. For that, you have to make a concerted effort to set aside your preconceived notions, instincts, gut-reactions (whatever you want to call them), and think about it logically. Most people won't do that.

I would like to say though that I do not agree with the statement that incest is considered wrong because of religious reasons. In fact, I think it's the opposite. Religion decrees that it is wrong because human nature/instinct has told us it's wrong. I don't think that all religious tenets follow this reasoning, but in this case it makes sense due to the harm to any offspring that result.

Oh, and as for your premise of a sexual relationship without the possibility of offspring... that cannot be addressed by an instinctual response. This instinct developed way back when it was not possible to artifically circumvent sperm reaching an egg. Instincts do no have the ability to address loopholes such as these.

Well, I applaud you for asking such a daring yet original question. I'm sorry the results aren't what you expected, but remember that gut-reactions are hard for most people to move past.

l2c
 

csiro

Golden Member
May 31, 2001
1,261
0
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By the way, I'm not sure if it has been brought up, is it legal to have an incestuous relationship between two adults?
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
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<< When a person has sexual intercourse with a close relative, that is incest and it is a crime. Incest law prohibits sexual intercourse between a man and any relative which the law prevents him marrying. This includes his daughter, step-daughter, grand-daughter, sister or half-sister, his mother, grand-mother, or niece. >>





i believe it is ilegal....don't know how far(or close) you can go without breaking the law
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,124
912
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Well, I applaud you for asking such a daring yet original question. I'm sorry the results aren't what you expected, but remember that gut-reactions are hard for most people to move past.

I can't help but wonder what sort of results she expected. I can't think of anything more socially unaccepted. I mean did anyones parents have to teach them this?
 

Juniper

Platinum Member
Nov 7, 2001
2,025
1
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luv2chill, thanks for your writeup. From your post and most of the rational posts in this thread, it seems that the aversion for incest spawns from our instincts for diversification of our gene pool and thus avoidance of deformed children. It is like a silent agreement that we have to each other in society. So maybe because of this notion that our ancestors have, we also have it in our beliefs and see it as bad without knowing why.



Most people will not go beyond their gut-reaction (hence the majority of the replies you received). It would be the same if you asked "why is eating your feces wrong?"--you would receive similar results. For me, I've always sought a complete understanding of everything... in fact I've asked this same question about incest to myself, and I would never be satisfied with "it just is" or "it's sick, disgusting, perverted". Neither of those answers address the reasons WHY we think it's wrong or sick or nasty or whatever. For that, you have to make a concerted effort to set aside your preconceived notions, instincts, gut-reactions (whatever you want to call them), and think about it logically. Most people won't do that.


I should have put some warning or assumption like "set aside any gut reaction, why do you... bla" ;)




 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
l2c, while i applaud your reasoning, i don't agree with you that it is instinctual. of the top ten taboos, incest is probably numero uno and there's a reason for that. i think it's because it is in fact instinctual to have sex regardless of whether or not the partner is in the same family. for this reason, the taboo against incest was developed early on in social groupings because of the potential disaster awaiting any offspring. the taboo developed amongst certain social groups and then spread amongst society in general and this is why i think you will see there are varying degrees of what is considered incest amongst different peoples.

i think that most of what people express by saying that incest is "nasty", or whatever, is due to conditioning during their upbringing.
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
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BTW, anybody read Heinlein? I'm not positive because I haven't read his books for years but I think through one of his characters he addressed this issue. If I recall correctly, the book may have been "Time Enough For Love". Heinlein may have written about this in more than one book also.
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
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i remember when i took some anthropology class(required). the book said incest was one of the UNIVERSAL taboos....

i think cannibalism was another one. didn't pay much attention still got an A in the class (no i didn't go to harvard).

i do remember how mad i was when they offer only $10 for my book when i first got it for $89. ba$tard$
 

SCSIfreek

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2000
3,216
0
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Our society was shaped in a way to think of incest as a wrongful act. There is nothing wrong with this act as long as it does not impact the way society works. but once this matter impacts the society as a whole and causes abnormality in anyway of our society, people or lawmakers will create laws to protect the society from changing or being affected by it. Morally speaking, incest is wrong and we had learned it through schooling and read it in other sources such as parents, friends, media etc. We are shaped by this society just like the book or movie "1982" had said? Of course some philosopher(weirdos) will try to challenege this thinking and do things to oppose this thinking. In the end majority wins most of the time.

Juniper to tell you the truth, there is no one reason to explain why incest wrong nor is there a reason to explain that its right. If you can give me a reason why its ok or its right to have incest then I'm sure I can think of something to counter your reasoning. :D but since you're asking simply to have my point of view. Well, incest is sick, the love for your family member is not the same love you have from your sexual partners. Whoever love their family the way they love their sexual partner has got to be messed up that feeling. Juniper is seems to me you're somewhat pro on this subject and I was wondering if you could give us your "Point of View", perhaps you can explain to us what are your thoughts of this. appreciate your answer.


--Scsi
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
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Hey, I have an even better thing for you guys to think about...I bet 100 years ago, there were some people asking "Why is interracial marriage and sex wrong?" and anytime they brought it up, people would say "Eeeeuw, that's sick" or "It's just wrong. I know it's wrong and so do you. So we both know it's wrong."

Again, I'm not saying incest is okay...but you guys just saying it's wrong by definition and not giving any arguments aren't doing our side any favors...



<< Why do you think that Mutt dogs are usually so much healthier than pure breeds? It's because they contain diverse DNA... it's just a fact. A being created from two other beings in the same gene pool will express genes that could lead to retardation or other undesirable traits. >>



Is that necessarily true? I don't know the first thing about biology but my gut impression is that mixing breeds is like mixing food ingredients. You can mix cream, sugar, and egg yolks and get something awesome (as in creme brul&eacute;e) but you can mix oranges, milk, and bread crumbs and get something awful...Mixing gives the *possibility* of something better than the inputs while keeping the same inputs means you'll know exactly what's gonna pop out of the oven.

Case in point: don't be fooled when you see a super-hot mixed girl--she's the product of a super-hot dad and a super-hot mom...For every Russel Wong or Halle Berry, there's a dozen normals and a few bads.

Living in California, I know that when average people mix with average people, it's really a crap-shoot how their kids are gonna look. (Not that it's bad of course to have interracial couples...hell, I've been a part of them myself. I'm just showing a point)
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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Wow! Good thread.. I'm quite amazed at the quantity and utter lack of quality of most of the responses. Juniper is not advocating a point of view, she is just asking the question why, and challenging us to come up with some rational guidelines.

Most of the responses are along the lines of:

It's just sick!
It's wrong because it increases the chances of recessive genetic defects being passed on to future generations.
It's instinctive for us to not want to engage in incest. (For the reason listed above.)
It's wrong for religious reasons.

My contention is this: If it's instinctive for us to not engage in incestuous behavior, why is this "instinct" not shared by the rest of the animal kingdom? Dogs, for example.. They could give a rat's ass who they have sex with!

If you take out the possibility of having children and try to answer this question, we can only come to the conclusion that this is a purely artificial cultural taboo.
 

csiro

Golden Member
May 31, 2001
1,261
0
0
Bomberman, completely agree with you. For example, for me, two guys doing it, I would consider nasty but I won't say it's wrong. If they're both consensual, I say why not, even if I find it not agreeable..
 

Maetryx

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
4,849
1
81


<< Listen man, it's just WRONG!!!! It's friggen common sense. It's the same reason why you don't go around pounding goats from behind..
>>



So, then. What I'm hearing is that it's okay to pound goats from the front.... (using Juniper logic).
 

luv2chill

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
4,611
0
76


<< l2c, while i applaud your reasoning, i don't agree with you that it is instinctual. of the top ten taboos, incest is probably numero uno and there's a reason for that. i think it's because it is in fact instinctual to have sex regardless of whether or not the partner is in the same family. for this reason, the taboo against incest was developed early on in social groupings because of the potential disaster awaiting any offspring. the taboo developed amongst certain social groups and then spread amongst society in general and this is why i think you will see there are varying degrees of what is considered incest amongst different peoples.

i think that most of what people express by saying that incest is "nasty", or whatever, is due to conditioning during their upbringing.
>>

Good point jjones. I hadn't thought of it that way. I must profess ignorance when it comes to the varying degrees of acceptance of incest amongst different cultures. But due to the isolation different cultures have from one another, I feel that it's possible for them to evolve (to some degree) independently. I suppose I was also blurring conditioning with instinct. For instance our aversion to fecal matter is actually conditioning rather than instinct.

Testing any of these theories would be difficult. You'd have to put unconditioned brothers and sisters on an island and see if they had sexual relations with each other. But that also wouldn't be proof, because if the aversion were instinctually present, it could be overridden by the stronger instinct of the need to procreate at any cost (ensuring survival of the species). Of course it's all moot anyway due to the human rights violations involved. I guess we'll never know for sure.

And juniper, I also assume that we're talking about incest between people all of consenting age (which I admit is not absolute). Obviously any kind of sexual act involving children has been proven to do profound psychological damage to them.

l2c
 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
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Hey if gays can do it, why can't families?

j/k guys.

but I think it falls under the same category. if you aren't having children and all... and you LOVE each other.... then ITS STILL SICK~!
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136


<<

<< Listen man, it's just WRONG!!!! It's friggen common sense. It's the same reason why you don't go around pounding goats from behind..
>>



So, then. What I'm hearing is that it's okay to pound goats from the front.... (using Juniper logic).
>>



Go for it, but that end has teeth.

;)

Viper GTS
 

Juniper

Platinum Member
Nov 7, 2001
2,025
1
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SCSIfreek, if I was a pro, I would not be posting this thread. ;)

I did not see why it should be sick, put aside genetics. Thats why I asked why it is wrong.

Well, from the info that I have gathered here, it seems that incest is a big taboo and has spawned from the fact that long ago children born from sibling couples are deformed, hence maybe our ancestors were banned from indulging in incestuous relationships. And since this has carried down till our generation, the reason behind it was lost, only the aversion for it has remained. Bah, conclusion: we see it as wrong.