Why INCEST is wrong? Give me ur views.

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Azraele

Elite Member
Nov 5, 2000
16,524
29
91


<< I did not see why it should be sick, put aside genetics. Thats why I asked why it is wrong >>


Why do any taboos form the way they do? In some places, it's taboo to eat cow, yet in others, it's a regular dietary supplement. You'd have to do a close study on cultural growth.
 

busmaster11

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2000
2,875
0
0
Hey everybody!!!!

Here's some flamebait for ya!!!

Why is incest more taboo than homosexuality? They're both un-natural... My answer? Because there are more people who are openly homosexual... And therefore we don't want to offend them...
 

MichaelD

Lifer
Jan 16, 2001
31,528
3
76
How about if you're having a homosexual relationship with your brother? Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! :p How's THAT for taboo?

ps
I just grossed me out. *pukes*
 

dfi

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2001
1,213
0
0
Most things are only morally wrong.

What is wrong with killing off people that are too old to be productive? Besides being morally wrong?

You tell me, juniper, what is so wrong about eating our dead? Besides being morally wrong? Sure, you might eat a diseased corpse and die, but so what?

What is so wrong about incent? Besides being morally wrong? Sure, you might get messed up children, but so what?

Once you realize that a lot of our standards are arbitrarily set, it'll make you feel a lot better. Or worse.

dfi





 

Nocturnal

Lifer
Jan 8, 2002
18,927
0
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Maybe if more people came out into the open with this, maybe it would be looked at a little bit more then being morally wrong. Just like how homosexuality used to be morally wrong, but now if you say something wrong to offend someone of being gay, you're homophibic (closet gay), and it's morally wrong to say something wrong about something that was thought of as morally wrong.

Incest and homosexuality goes back to way beyond our time. I know that Alexander the Great was a homosexual, and I'm not sure about incest, but I know that back in the day kings and queens sometimes would get married to each other to keep the royalty in the family.
 

CocaCola5

Golden Member
Jan 5, 2001
1,599
0
0
I think the deformity thing is alittle exaggerated, there are many medical accounts of perfectly born babies from incest. Sure it WILL show up but to say you'll have three arm babies is pure exaggerations.
 

dfi

Golden Member
Apr 20, 2001
1,213
0
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I'm seeing a lot of "incest is wrong becuz it's against instinct/nature". However, I don't really see anything "wrong" with it. In fact, I think right and wrong can be defined however you want.

Isn't it our instinct to go towards bright things? Kids often put their hands in the fire, presumably out of instinct. Is it "wrong" for a kid to stop burning his hands? Instinctively, when I see a hot female on the street, I want to screw her brains out. Is it "wrong" for me to suppress my urges and hinder the continuation of the human race?

As for the whole "incest is unnatural" argument, consider this: if nature wanted us to fly, wouldn't we have been given wings? Sure, you can make the argument that nature gave us brains to create flying machines. But if you make that argument, then you can never argue that cloning is against nature, since nature gave us the ability to create clones.

Btw, I just want to add, just because something is bad for the species, doesn't mean it's "wrong". Pandas won't screw to save their species. But is it "wrong"? Do you look at pandas and think, "boy, what those pandas are doing (or rather, aren't doing) sure is wrong."

dfi
 

WageSlave

Banned
Sep 22, 2000
1,323
0
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Well, I personally find it distasteful...

However, if birth control is used as to prevent any offspring cant think of a reason why it is morally wrong. I dont know which faiths prohoibit it, but I am an atheist so that does matter to me... So other than for religous purposes I cant think of a reason it could be ''wrong' I think that it just seems creepy to most of us, and perhaps that is in some part a natural instinct to prevent us from having retarded children... its built in or something. 'dont hump your sister' :p
 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
11,631
2
0


<< 3. I believe somewhere in the Bible it says that its bad, though I don't remember where. Yes I'm fully aware that the offspring of Adam and Eve were said to mate... >>



Actually, Cain had children with Lilith, Adam's first wife. If I remember my theology, she was created right after Adam and was cast out because she refused to be subserviant to Adam.

After she was gone, Eve was created and they had Cain and Able (or was it Kane and the Undertaker?).

There are alot of incorrect facts going around this thread.

Inbreeding does not necessarily create people like that guy from Goonies. Inbreeding does increase the chances of expressing/magnifying bad or good traits which are found in a genetic lineage. I do not believe it increases chances of any sort of mutation though.

Why do we all think it's gross? Someone earlier said it had to do with conditioning. That's probably the majority of it. And yes, conditioning = fast response.

And no, it's not bad because the Bible says so (even though zealots love to use the Bible as their moral sword). A lot of "laws" in different religions come from real needs, and were thus inserted as relgious text by someone. If you can't see that, you're blinded by your own dogma.

It's wrong because it generally decreases the fitness of a population (so does when the two pasty, sickly nerds from school find each other and have kids, but no one has a problem with that).
 

Maetryx

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
4,849
1
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Man, that takes a long time to read all that. Ulitmately, I think the question being asked is one abstraction lower than our discussion on the morality of adult-adult non-reproductive incest. The question being asked (IMO) is this: Where does morality come from? What is the origins of morality? Does there always have to be a scientific reason for a particular taboo?

As a theist, I think that morality stems from God's nature. There are many things that strike us as "just plain wrong", and I don't think they would if we were soulless biochemical phenomenons. Everyone thinks torturing babies is wrong, for example. But why? What if you only torture them a little and are careful not to leave any marks?

Also, someone asked whether or not anyone's parents actually taught them that incest was bad. That comment made me realize that I *do* remember my mother telling me that if me and my sister had relations, our babies would be ugly. I was like 5 years old when she told us that. The "conversation" came up because my older cousin (6), for God knows why, was telling me and my sister about sex, describing it to us and trying to get us to act it out. My mother caught on, and thus the instructions regarding incest.

That's a really weird memory.
 

TuffGirl

Platinum Member
Jan 20, 2001
2,797
1
91


<< Maybe if more people came out into the open with this, maybe it would be looked at a little bit more then being morally wrong. Just like how homosexuality used to be morally wrong, but now if you say something wrong to offend someone of being gay, you're homophibic (closet gay), and it's morally wrong to say something wrong about something that was thought of as morally wrong. >>

Uhh, are you implying that there's a population out there engaging in incest but are just "in the closet"? AHHHH!!!!:Q


<< Is that necessarily true? I don't know the first thing about biology but my gut impression is that mixing breeds is like mixing food ingredients. >>

HAHA b0mbrman, it's clear from your post you have no clue about bio. You pretty much made a fool of yourself. Food ingredients?! :p

*still falling out of her chair laughing*
 

crawford

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2002
1,425
0
0


<< Because it's sick first of all, hehe.

Actually because they will have retarded children.
>>

 

raz

Banned
Feb 19, 2000
643
0
0


<< Why INCEST is wrong? Give me ur views. >>


My mom's old, my sisters are butt ugly, and my brother's are...wait, my one brother has a pretty nice ass! ;)
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
xyyz's very existence is proof that incest is wrong and that the offsprjng produced from it are fscked up pieces of sh!t.
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
I agree completely with jjones, which sorta summed up what I said earlier.

I also wanted to post some possible scenarios I had in my head for some of you to think about.

What if you met a gorgeous girl on the street, had an awesome night with her, and ended up having sex. Then later on you find out shes your long lost sister or a cousin. I think this scenario, while far fetched, is possible. And I don't think you would somehow know, unless told, that she was this blood relative.

What if when you were 1, your family adopted a girl who was 1 years old also. You grew up all your life thinking she was your sister. Would you instinctively know that she wasn't your blood and want to have sex with her? Or would the fact that you grew up under the same roof and your knowledge that sex is bad with family members, make you think that she is gross. When you find out she isn't really your blood sister, would you find it ok to have sex with her?

Anyways, I don't know what the results of these would be, I'm not doing case studies or anything. But it is something for all you people trying to burn Juniper at the stake to think about.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
It is a long term survival instinct. It is built into most all species to "know" not to procreate with one so closely related. Even plants have several means to ensure that their flowers are not pollenated by a close relative. The means by which seeds are widely dispersed is amazing. This serves not only to broadcast the plants' genetic material as far as possible, but to ensure that the offsprings' pollen do not outcompete more diverse genetic material. There are even a variety of ways that plants ensure that they do not self pollenate. Some do self pollenate as a last resort, but that is in some cases better than having no offspring at all.

There are similar mechanisms in animal species to ensure that the offspring are sufficiently scattered so as not to breed with a close relative. Of course there are exceptions, but for most species it's just instictual. Why would one assume that it would be otherwise with us?
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Lirion,
Do monkeys inbreed? They seem to screw anything 4 feet near them, I'd be curious to know if they have sex with first cousins / siblings.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81


<< Is that necessarily true? I don't know the first thing about biology but my gut impression is that mixing breeds is like mixing food ingredients.

<< HAHA b0mbrman, it's clear from your post you have no clue about bio. You pretty much made a fool of yourself. Food ingredients?! :p

*still falling out of her chair laughing*
>>

>>



HAHA klee58, it's clear from your post you have no clue about explaining what you're talking about.

Wow...that's interesting. In any case, could you explain why or are you content in me thinking that you believe "It's just wrong to compare mixing breeds to mixing food ingredients because God made people and so people are important!"

Oh, and stick the bio in there too of course. Wouldn't want to make an even bigger fool of myself now ;)

Or is it rather, your kneejerk reaction to someone saying something that doesn't put intermixing on a pedestal? (Intermixing, of course, which we've judged since the 60's to be the greatest thing since sliced bread) Or in other words, your insatiable urge to give head to white guys ;)

Perhaps you've made a fool of yourself by letting your religious and/or social views influence your views about science ;)



<< It's wrong because it generally decreases the fitness of a population (so does when the two pasty, sickly nerds from school find each other and have kids, but no one has a problem with that). >>



Well...if those nerds are smart, then they've got some attribute that society's deemed worthwhile.



<< Lirion,
Do monkeys inbreed? They seem to screw anything 4 feet near them, I'd be curious to know if they have sex with first cousins / siblings.
>>



Or rabbits for that matter...My friend had a pet rabbit that would hump anything. I can't imagine him saying to himself "Well, my schedule for today is to hump that pillow, then that shoe, then that Chihuahua, but *not* that attractive female rabbit because she's my sister ;)
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0


<< Lirion,
Do monkeys inbreed? They seem to screw anything 4 feet near them, I'd be curious to know if they have sex with first cousins / siblings.
>>



Not sure, but I doubt it, at least not regularly, or they would have died out by now. And you notice I covered myself by including an exceptions clause just in case;)
 

Stark

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2000
7,735
0
0


<< And no, it's not bad because the Bible says so (even though zealots love to use the Bible as their moral sword). >>



Well, here's what God says about incest, homosexuality, infidelity, bestiality and sex during menstration in the Bible. I fear it's falling on deaf ears, but for what it's worth:

Leviticus 18

1 Then the LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say this to your people, the Israelites: I, the LORD, am your God. 3 So do not act like the people in Egypt, where you used to live, or like the people of Canaan, where I am taking you. You must not imitate their way of life. 4 You must obey all my regulations and be careful to keep my laws, for I, the LORD, am your God. 5 If you obey my laws and regulations, you will find life through them. I am the LORD.

6 "You must never have sexual intercourse with a close relative, for I am the LORD. 7 Do not violate your father by having sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your mother; you must never have intercourse with her. 8 Do not have sexual intercourse with any of your father's wives, for this would violate your father. 9 "Do not have sexual intercourse with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was brought up in the same family or somewhere else. 10 "Do not have sexual intercourse with your granddaughter, whether your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would violate you. 11 Do not have sexual intercourse with the daughter of any of your father's wives; she is your half sister. 12 Do not have intercourse with your aunt, your father's sister, because she is your father's close relative. 13 Do not have sexual intercourse with your aunt, your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative. 14 And do not violate your uncle, your father's brother, by having sexual intercourse with his wife; she also is your aunt. 15 Do not have sexual intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife. 16 Do not have intercourse with your brother's wife; this would violate your brother. 17 "Do not have sexual intercourse with both a woman and her daughter or marry both a woman and her granddaughter, whether her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter. They are close relatives, and to do this would be a horrible wickedness. 18 "Do not marry a woman and her sister because they will be rivals. But if your wife dies, then it is all right to marry her sister.

19 "Do not violate a woman by having sexual intercourse with her during her period of menstrual impurity. 20 "Do not defile yourself by having sexual intercourse with your neighbor's wife. 21 "Do not give any of your children as a sacrifice to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD. 22 "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin. 23 "A man must never defile himself by having sexual intercourse with an animal, and a woman must never present herself to a male animal in order to have intercourse with it; this is a terrible perversion. 24 "Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the people I am expelling from the Promised Land have defiled themselves. 25 As a result, the entire land has become defiled. That is why I am punishing the people who live there, and the land will soon vomit them out. 26 You must strictly obey all of my laws and regulations, and you must not do any of these detestable things. This applies both to you who are Israelites by birth and to the foreigners living among you. 27 "All these detestable activities are practiced by the people of the land where I am taking you, and the land has become defiled. 28 Do not give the land a reason to vomit you out for defiling it, as it will vomit out the people who live there now. 29 Whoever does any of these detestable things will be cut off from the community of Israel. 30 So be careful to obey my laws, and do not practice any of these detestable activities. Do not defile yourselves by doing any of them, for I, the LORD, am your God."
 

Yo Ma Ma

Lifer
Jan 21, 2000
11,635
2
0


<<

geek167, nope it did not. Incestuous relationships does not always involve plans with having children. So, would you approve of a sibling couple living together?
>>

Having children isn't always planned at all, but the fact remains if two people go through the motions of reproducing then there remains that possibility. Not reproducing with a sibling encourages greater genetic diversity, which seems to be a "good thing".
 

MistaTastyCakes

Golden Member
Oct 11, 2001
1,607
0
0
Hmm, I wouldn't do my sister in law, no sir. Most likely since it's pretty impossible for me to feel sexual attraction towards her since she's, umm, my sister, and just the thought of it's kinda...eww.

However, I would do my friends' sisters...hehe
 

Shadowgate

Member
Aug 6, 2001
77
0
0
i'm gonna go into the shallow end of the pool and say:

it depends on if your sister is hot or not



from a genetics standpoint, it's bad for the species to inbreed. however if it's just for the sake of sex, so long as it's between consenting adults it's really up to them what they do. people should be less concerned with what other people do or who they sleep with anyway. unless it directly affects you.
 

Cessna172

Member
Jan 8, 2001
183
0
0
I'm going to try to contribute an intelligent response to this thread, since it seems to be lacking them.

First, before we start arguing what is "right" and "wrong", I think we should agree on the definition of "wrong". I personally think that whether or not something is wrong mostly stems from whether someone is going to get hurt in some way. Stealing is wrong because someone loses something that belonged to them. Murder is wrong because someone else has their life taken from them. Lying is wrong because it is deceiving to others. Etc, etc... You get the point. Something being "sick" is not necessarily wrong. Drinking a glass of my own urine would definitely be considered sick by almost everyone. However, it is not "wrong". I am not hurting anyone else if I choose to do this.

Second, I'd like to separate the question into two different questions:

1. Is incest between a parent and their children wrong?
2. Is incest between a brother and sister wrong?

I will also be assuming that the sex is for pleasure only, and no children are planned. I will address that as a separate issue.

In the case of question #1, I think the answer would differ depending on the age of the children. If we're talking about underage children, then we're entering the territory of sexual child abuse. Is it possible that there could be consensual sex between a parent and underage child? Technically, yes. HOWEVER, in most cases the children are in no position to make that kind of decision and should not be exploited based on that deficiency. In many cases, this would be some degree of sexual abuse. And statistics have shown that huge percentages of the most screwed-up people (crack whores, drug addicts, people with multiple personalities) were sexually abused as children. Therefore, me must conclude that the children are or could easily be harmed as a result. Therefore, it should be considered wrong.

Now, sex between a 25 year old child and his or her mother or father would be somewhat different. In this case, the child is a fully-grown person that is fully capable of making decisions about this matter, as is the parent. I and many others would consider this situation sick. But whether it's wrong is at least debateable. Assuming they're not having kids, and they both want to do it, I don't see why it would be wrong. Nobody is getting harmed here, so despite it being very gross, I would have to say that it' not necessarily wrong.

My answer to question #2 would be similar. I personally could never think of having sex with my sister. To me, it would be unthinkable. However, whether it would be "wrong" or not is another issue. If a brother and sister both mutually wanted to have sex for pleasure, they would not be harming anyone by doing it. I can't think of a reason that it would be immoral, since there is no harm done. Sick? Yes. Immoral? Not necessarily.

NOW, to tackle the issue of incestual relationships resulting in children. The main argument given here seems to be that incest tends to increase the chances of having retarded or deformed babies. In this case, we could easily argue that the offspring would be harmed as a result. HOWEVER, if we're saying that doing something that could result in improperly developed children is wrong, then don't we have to apply that to anything that could cause this? What about people who already have some serious bioligical or genetic defects? It is possible that they may pass those traits on to their children, even with a normal sex partner. Should they not have kids? If a person has a history of health problems, or is incredibly obese, or just plain ugly, it is possible that these traits could be passed onto their children. Should they not be allowed to have children? Or should it be considered wrong? Using the "incest resulting in children with defects" argument, we may have to say "yes--it's wrong". I'm not sure I agree with this. If someone is extraordinarily ugly, or has a bad genetic makeup that causes them to have health problems, yes--they are more likely to have kids with either physical or emotional problems. But I don't think these people should be denied or even frowned upon for wanting to have kids.

I realize, however, that there is a slight kink in my last argument. And that is that people with health problems, or who are ugly, etc., don't have a choice. People faced with the choice of incest do have a choice. And I do think that complicates the issue. However, regardless of the ability to choose, the result is still the same: the children have a greater chance of being harmed as a result. So I think that whether it is right or wrong to have children out of incest is at least debateble. Plus, I would really like someone to post a link to a reliable source that shows what the harmful effects of this is. Popular opinion seems to equate the results of incest to "retardation" and "deformation". This may or may not be true. But posting a link to a reliable source would certainly help support this argument.

So, in summary, I think we need to keep in mind the difference between thinking that something is "sick" and something being morally "wrong". It's somewhat subjective, but there is definitely a difference. I think that incest is sick. I also think that someone eating their own feces is sick. But I'm not convinced that either one is wrong.

Don't flame me for being one of the few to post this opinion, I'm simply trying to be as objective as possible when dealing with this issue.
 

ImTyping

Banned
Aug 6, 2001
777
0
0


<< Say a brother and sister have sexual relationship. Why is that wrong? Why should it be wrong? >>



To quote Chris from The Family Guy: I NEED AN ADULT!!! I NEED AN ADULT!!!