Why hasn't the world come to an end and where is Jesus?

[Moonbeam]

Zonk, you'll get over it. Clearly, if I say that we are 98% plus chimp identical that I'm calling myself a chimp. It's a great feeling not to have to fight the obvious. I had my banana- long ago. I thought religion brought humility. Did you ever meet a chimp you didn't like?

 

[Raspewtin]

<< where is Jesus? >>



dead

 

[amnesiac]

I think everyone here should watch Kevin Smith's &quot;Dogma.&quot; That sure cleared up a whole lot of stuff for me.

Here's just some musings to keep the flames stoked..

How do you Christians know you're praying to the right god and accepting the right saviour? Who's to say that Bhudda or Vishnu or Allah isn't the one to be worshipped?

How do you explain the fact that we are 99% genetically identical to chimpanzees?

Is AIDS a plague brought on by God to smite the homos?

If God is so omnipotent and we are his children why do we need people to &quot;do God's work&quot; in the form of Televangelism and those freaks that stand on street corners with abortion photographs?

Am I going to hell? Do I get a free &quot;get out of hell&quot; card if I repent right before I die?

What if every religion in the world is wrong and we all go to hell? Who gets to say &quot;I told you so?&quot;

I always give stuff to homeless people. Does that count toward redemption?

Am I going to be smitten by a bolt of lightning for questioning God?



For the record most of these questions are serious that I wouldn't mind having answered though they're not to be taken seriously if you understand the difference. I'm an agnostic and plan to stay that way until I'm convinced otherwise. G'night!

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Why hasn't the world come to an end and where is Jesus? >>



Who said the World would end?

Jesus is on the planet Heaven, in the City of God, In the Palace, he sits on the Throne that is Great and White.

 

[Czar]

My input, might get long, I´m reading while I write

Evulation has been prooven so often that you just dont notice it anymore. You all know what breeding is, you take for example two dogs and make them have a puppy to get the desired effect. Us humans have done this well before the bible was written, well before the so called Jesus was born. Breeding has been done in sides of the world where they didnt know what the bible was. Breeding is just hastened evolution, breeding is when we choose what effect we want and evolution is random effects. This should be proof enough for anyone.

Gravity is one of the things we see but dont know how it works, but once we didnt know how electricity worked, so I´m pretty sure we will find proof for gravity soon.

Also if we want to go into the true god then there cant be no true god, for those who belive in one god over all religions, then thats fine. But if you do belive in one god over all religions then there is no way you can belive in what the bible says, because the bible is just a religous document, just like the Koran and many many other books.

And the DNA thing. Nearly all creatures on earth have about 80% of their DNA exactly the same, apes have 98% of their DNA the same as us. This has been proven.

About then all the religions. I know how christianity is influenced by Pagan religion, and how Pagan religion is influenced by the old Roman gods, and how the Roman gods are just a copy of the Greek gods. I know how the church smashed pagan and christian religions together just to get the Pagans to be christins. First, the most sacred holyday of the year, christmas, its actually a pagan festival, celebrating the time when the darkest day of the year is over. I know that when Iceland became a christian country, exactly 1000 years ago, the church allowed us to eat horse meat, though it was banned everywhere else.

The jews are not allowed to eat pork by religion, the real reason why they dont eat pork is because pork meat has lots and lots of worms in it that kills people. What is the best way to make people stop eating pork, tell them that god tells them not to and you will go to hell for doing so . What is the best way to make a kid go to sleep, tell them that santa will bring you presents if you do, if you dont you wont get any presents.

Beliving in the &quot;bible&quot; is just like reading one computer mag like PCZone and stating that all other magazines and sites are just full of biased fiction. No single person is right or wrong, to be right you have to judge the complete picture.

 

[Corn]

<< Gravity is one of the things we see but dont know how it works, but once we didnt know how electricity worked, so I´m pretty sure we will find proof for gravity soon. >>



Uhh, I cannot &quot;see&quot; gravity, but I can see and feel it's effect. I even know how gravity &quot;works&quot;. And every day that you wake up without being hurtled off the planet because of (the unfortunate consequence of centrifical force without gravity) is proof enough that gravity does indeed exist.

 

[Dedpuhl]

Amnesiac 2.0

Exactly.

Research and a good classical mythology course have taught me several things.

1) There were several religions/cults/sects around well before Xianity was ever thought of being made up.

2) Xianity is a rip-off of Greek Mythology, Roman Mythology, and Mystery Cults. The Xians just mixed together the things they liked. They ripped off Greek mythology a great deal. God = Zeus. Jesus = Prometheus. Pandora = Eve. Hades = Satan (in Greek mythology, Hades was not considered &quot;evil&quot; but rather just an underlord of the dead). Heaven = Elysian Fields.

Now the Xian founders realized how farfetched most of the stories were in Greek mythology. I don't see how they could believe half of the stuff they did. So the Xians took out all of the wild stuff and tried to make it more realistic (a lot is still farfetched).

This is my opinion, but I think the Xianity founders felt they needed only 1 God. So they got rid of the other gods?well, made them into angels. There are only 2 angels mentioned by name in the Bible. Michael is a warring angel who is equivalent to Mars/Ares. The other angel is said to always have message. I would guess this angel is the equivalent of Mercury/Hermes.

The most blatant rip on Greek mythology is the similarities between Prometheus and Jesus. Both were strung out to dry for helping mankind. Jesus was placed on a crucifix (type of torture at the time) while Prometheus was chained to a rock. Both are considered &quot;gods&quot; in their respective religions. The only real difference between the stories of the 2, besides the type of torture, is that Prometheus defied Zeus and Jesus defied the Roman Hierarchy. Both sacrificed their &quot;lives&quot; for mankind.

Now, in Greek Mythology, an act of a hero was to travel through the underworld. Hercules, Orpheus, and Theseus made trips into the underworld (Hades). Coincidentally, Jesus supposedly makes a trip thru purgatory (Hades) to &quot;retrieve&quot; the good people before his arrival. Strangely enough, this closes the loophole of &quot;why did the good people before Jesus go to hell.&quot; In essence, Jesus = hero.


I could go on and on. I will later (I need sleep), but I think you may already get the point. Christianity is just a revamped version of Greek Mythology?.


The real question should be:

Why hasn't the world come to an end and where is PROMETHEUS?

 

[Athanasius]

Dedpuhl:

Why is &quot;common ground&quot; in various fields of scientific thought considered grounds for accepting the merit of scientific inquiry but &quot;common ground&quot; in the area of myth/religion considered grounds for rejecting the merit of spiritual inquiry? That there is some common ground between various belief systems is no argument against Christianity. Paul, the greatest Christian missionary, quoted from the &quot;Hymn to Zeus&quot; to make a point about GOD. Read Acts 17.

Read C.S. Lewis' brief treatise, &quot;Myth Became Fact.&quot; It is only 5-10 pages. Consider this statement:

<< Now as myth transcends thought, incarnation transcends myth. The heart of Christianity is a myth which is also a fact. The old myth of the dying god, without ceasing to be myth, comes down from the heaven of legend and imagination to the earth of history. It happens-- at a particular date, in a particular place, followed by a definable historical consequence. We pass from a Balder or an Osiris, dying nobody knows when or where, to a historical person (it is all in order) under Pontius Pilate. By becoming fact it does not cease to be myth: that is the miracle. >>



That's all for now

 

[ArkAoss]

just saying hey to athanasius, long time no see, how are ya?

also, jesus never said he'd be coming in person, but his presence has been fealt, if your observent, also as to the &quot;end of the world&quot; it will take place when the generation that saw jesus second coming passes on. aint dat confusing? Pm me if you'ld like eloquency, and elaboration.

 

[I'm Typing]

There is absolutely zero scientific evidence that TOMINATOR has a brain.



<< Even Darwin knew all his work was theory and speculation. All unproven. Again YOU need to define Scientific Fact. I know what the term means. >>



Actually, you do not, or you would not have phrased your response in that fashion. What passes for scientific &quot;theory&quot; today would actually be considered cold hard fact in any court of law or public opinion, if certain members of the public could grasp the difference. You say that you have at least a 9th grade education. I postulate that your education ended in the 9th grade, possibly in the 9th grade over 20 years ago. I say that because 9th graders of today understand that the genetic basis for all of the species on the planet is so similar that it is blindingly obvious that we all have a common ancestor.

We share 98 percent of the same genetic material with chimps. Hell, we share 95% the same genetic material with pigs! If I had all the time in the world, I could not convince someone like you that evolution not only did occur, but is occuring even now as we speak--I only have to point to the strains of bacteria that are resistant to modern antibiotics to highlight how evolution works.

But you, Tominator, would probably say that this genetic selection is &quot;god's work.&quot; Good to see that your god keeps making it harder for us to eliminate desease.

I would hope that you could keep up with modern scientific publications, and read them with an open mind. Oh, I forgot...there is no evidence that you have a brain!

 

[Czar]

Corn

we know that gravity works, but what no one has a clue about is how it works. Science is about how it works.

 

[apoppin]

We have discussed this over and over again in the forums.

There is nothing I can say to change your evolutionist beliefs anymore than you can provide solid evidence to me that we &quot;evolved&quot; from another species - ultimately from a single cell that came together by chance.

Evolution is NOT proven. It is your belief system - your religion (by definition) which - since it cannot be proven to a reasonable person - you take on &quot;faith&quot;. Please do NOT confuse evolution with variety (within a species) which creation believers accept.

You keep asserting that Science will eventually triumph over the Bible. Not so. The Bible never stated the Earth was the center of the cosmos or that the earth was flat. Please do not confuse manmade &quot;religion&quot; with the truth taught in the Bible.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< We share 98 percent of the same genetic material with chimps. >>



That sounds like one of the requirements of a Gore supporter.

Science does not take into account the genetic makeup and code differences of Man's Spirit. Therefore the 98% comparison, is not valid. We also know that a 2% difference in the code, will cause a dramatic difference in the outcome, of the Organism.

Once again, Science alone, while making great strides toward understanding the makeup of the universe, falls short.

 

[BoberFett]

<< I say that because 9th graders of today understand that the genetic basis for all of the species on the planet is so similar that it is blindingly obvious that we all have a common ancestor. >>

If god invented a system that worked, wouldn't it make sense that he'd use the same framework and just tweak it for each creature he wanted to create? Why start from scratch for each animal, especially since they'll have to share the same ecosystem anyway?

Looks like somebody needs to read up on the latest in OOC. (object oriented creation)

 

[I'm Typing]

Bober: if your god wanted to use evolution as the model for our &quot;creation,&quot; there is nothing in the world anyone could say to refute that.

Apoppin and Palco: if you prefer to live in the 21st century, and hold on to 15th century viewpoints, so be it...that &quot;don't bother me with the facts&quot; attitude is just what those in the religious right want to hear. Maybe if I phrased my argument in a language that you understand, would you figure this whole thing out:

Baaaaa. Baaa baaa baaaa. Baaaaaaaah baaa ba baaaa baaaaaaah. Baaaaa.

Got it?

 

[BoberFett]

Apparently belittling others is now a debate tactic. Or at least it is when you have no good argument of your own.

 

[rahvin]

Moonbeam and I'm Typing.

LMAO. Thanks for the laughs guys....

I've been enjoying my banana for years....

Here is my contribution... (I'm not gonna post a bunch of it because you said it better than me...

BTW, DNA evidence is actually VERY against a common two ancestors. For example, in DNA analysis of Cheeta's it was discovered that there is very little variation in the genetics, ie something you would see in humans if they were of the same family. The hypothesis is that a single pregenant female Cheeta survived a cataclysmic event about 10,000 years ago and as such there is very little differentiation among the genetics of Cheeta's. Humans show the opposite, there are wide difference in our genomes that would NOT be present had we originated from a single pair of humans. In fact you would have to re-write nearly every theory in biology to claim that the variation present in the human species originated from a single pair of humans 6000 years ago.

 

[Czar]

apoppin

Evolution has been proven over and over again, like I stated in my previous post (or the post before that). I just take what is most likely, to me evolution is like beyond statistics more likely than any godly creation.

Religion has allways been used to fill in the gaps where man doesnt understand, science has always been there to explain to man what he doesnt understand. Religion will allways be there to fill up that space, the more we know the more we know that we dont know.

Who wrote the bible? men just simple men, so the bible is man made, so christianity is a man made religion.

 

[Thorn]

Moonbeam, and our DNA is 99.2% identical to pigs (so says Dr. Jay Wimalasena at UT Knoxville)... here, have some slop. Your points prove nothing, except that out classification system is in definite need of an overhaul.

When someone can find a missing link or viable &quot;transtion&quot; critters between man and apes (and I'm not talking about 1 or 2 fossils that have obviously been tampered with) then I'll listen more closely to arguments about human evolution.

 

[BoberFett]

<< Evolution has been proven over and over again >>

Wow, Czar has a time machine. Can I use it next?

 

[MajesticMoose]

Tominator:Yes i can. a long time ago their was an animal related to present day giraffes, which gave birth to a freak, a new version of the same animal with one big difference, a long neck. This longer neck was and adaption which made this particular animal more able to survive(it could reach the higher leaves that shorter animals couldn't. Eventually there was a male and female of this type that reproduced and eventually that new version of the old animal came to flourish. Their special adaptations allowed them to survive better than the older animals, with the shorter necks, and so they lived. the others didn't. I'm not saying that the animal went from a one foot neck to a nine foot one all at once, it wouold happen in steps. This is all according to the theory of natural selection(an integral part of evolution). Yes it is a theory, and can't be proven, but you can't disprove it.

scientific method:research->hypothesis->test->evaluation->publish results, right?

Edit: from encarta encyclopedia:Anthropoids (the branch of primates to which humans belong which also includes chimps, gorillas and monkeys)arose from the descendants of early prosimians(primitive primate such as lemurs). everthing there that isn't in quotes is a direct quotation. Encyclopedia aren't going to print information that is false or highly questionable. it must be based on valid scientific proof.




Moose

 

[Elledan]

Science is based on the world (reality) and its views are therefore constantly changing. Christianity and other religions, however, are based on one book or some particular event. The views of those religions will never change, since if they would do that, they would admit that the book or the event on which their religion is based, would be false.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Science is based on the world (reality) and its views are therefore constantly changing. >>



Shifting sand is also, &quot;constantly changing&quot;.

When Science is added to Truth (and not used as the basis of truth), the picture is painted step by step, in firm, full and complete order.

 

[Czar]

Bober

if you read my post then you would have understood, but facts doesnt seem to want to crawl into your head.

http://forums1.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?start=81&amp;catid=38&amp;threadid=310414#84

Read this

 

[MrPALCO]

<< Apoppin and Palco: if you prefer to live in the 21st century, and hold on to 15th century viewpoints, so be it...that &quot;don't bother me with the facts&quot; >>



There is that...... which rules over facts......that is Truth.