I'm sorry. If anyone gives you an exact day and date for the wnd of the world or Christ's return, I would be amazed if it comes true. Jesus said that not even he knows that exact day. ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS. I doubt any man or woman who gives an exact day! They are foolish to try!
Anybody care to answer this question for me?
My father always wondered what happened to my grandfather and all our ancestors. Apparently none of them had any idea who Christ was, and they all believed in folk religion. So... are they in heaven or hell?
If I want to meet my grandpa after I die, where shall I go? What if I want to meet Caesar? Or Homer (not Simpson, the ancient Greek guy)?
Also, what happens to all the Muslims after they die? (i.e. those in Indonesia right now)
My father always wondered what happened to my grandfather and all our ancestors. Apparently none of them had any idea who Christ was, and they all believed in folk religion. So... are they in heaven or hell?
If I want to meet my grandpa after I die, where shall I go? What if I want to meet Caesar? Or Homer (not Simpson, the ancient Greek guy)?
Also, what happens to all the Muslims after they die? (i.e. those in Indonesia right now)
Gravity fits the definition of Scientific Fact perfectly!
There is no such thing as gravity, the world sucks.
just kibitizing today.
There is no such thing as gravity, the world sucks.
just kibitizing today.
As soon as I see Marxism and/or Communisim bring peace to someone I might start thinking that Marx had something right.
The practice of his philosophy has been a dismal failure by all who have tried...
The practice of his philosophy has been a dismal failure by all who have tried...
Red Dawn....I can understand that some choose not to believe, but like so many things in life, it is a choice! If one believes he can drive 100mph and chooses to do so he might prove nothing will happen..or he might die!
Belief in God and things not seen or proven is like that. I'll believe until proven by fact I'm wrong. I don't think that will ever happen. I'm not willing to get my kicks in life and take the chance of meeting a Creator that has told me what to do to live forever.
Possibly in today's world we have it too easy. We are warm, fed and have things never even dreamed about 10 years ago. We are prosperous beyond anyone's wildess fantasy. Yet People want more and more and never achieve happiness. Why?
We don't want to give anyone or anything unseen credit. We deny History and the teachings of those that lived before. We deny what is right and wholesome for our own benefit. The Bible has warned us of everything...then given us a way out...
"Everything that is good comes from God and his son Jesus Christ...."
If one chooses to believe in an eternal life, nothing that could happen on this earth could matter. You can live in slavery, under communism or you name it...and you have hope. Hope in a better tomorrow. In a better world...not of this one.
I believe that each of us has a part of God in us and it is that that separates us from the animals. We make choices. Animals do not for the most part. Apes can be trained, but without the training they will survive on instinct. Humans cannot. All the emotions we have would tear us apart! Without guidance we will ultimately destroy ourselves and take planet earth with us.
I'll let God's Word direct my path....then humbly ask for forgiveness when I fail. For I will fail without hope and direction...and so will humanity.
You choose your path. I've chosen mine.
Belief in God and things not seen or proven is like that. I'll believe until proven by fact I'm wrong. I don't think that will ever happen. I'm not willing to get my kicks in life and take the chance of meeting a Creator that has told me what to do to live forever.
Possibly in today's world we have it too easy. We are warm, fed and have things never even dreamed about 10 years ago. We are prosperous beyond anyone's wildess fantasy. Yet People want more and more and never achieve happiness. Why?
We don't want to give anyone or anything unseen credit. We deny History and the teachings of those that lived before. We deny what is right and wholesome for our own benefit. The Bible has warned us of everything...then given us a way out...
"Everything that is good comes from God and his son Jesus Christ...."
If one chooses to believe in an eternal life, nothing that could happen on this earth could matter. You can live in slavery, under communism or you name it...and you have hope. Hope in a better tomorrow. In a better world...not of this one.
I believe that each of us has a part of God in us and it is that that separates us from the animals. We make choices. Animals do not for the most part. Apes can be trained, but without the training they will survive on instinct. Humans cannot. All the emotions we have would tear us apart! Without guidance we will ultimately destroy ourselves and take planet earth with us.
I'll let God's Word direct my path....then humbly ask for forgiveness when I fail. For I will fail without hope and direction...and so will humanity.
You choose your path. I've chosen mine.
It really is amazing that the soundness of the theory of evolution isn't obvious to everybody. Science is the attempt to understand the workings of the world in logical rational terms without the need to infer magical processes. Science relies upon reason, intuition, logic, and the reasonableness of cause and effect to deduce processes. Science starts with data and tries to propose concepts that explain phenomena. It lets the facts lead where they may. It is the persuasiveness of facts that matter, not where they lead.
Exactly the opposite applies to religious apologists. They know the end they want to get to and reason to prove it. For that reason their thinking is biased. It is what makes their thinking look silly to a scientifically oriented mind.
A fact, scientifically isn't much more that a consensual agreement among cognoscenti. We can repeat gravity experiments in labs and get the same results. The rest of us assume they are repeatable, but we don't do the experiments ourselves. We take them on faith. This is not, I think, analogous to religious faith. We have figured out that gravity is a property of mass. We have a theory about it. The theory makes sense based not only on repeatability, but elegance. It makes sense of phenomena that were previously nonsensical and is predictive. It anticipates black holes, which have subsequently been observed. A full theory of gravity, however, remains elusive.
The theory of evolution is also a theory, but the fiction that because it can't be repeated in the lab it is somehow suspect is nonsense, because it fits known facts and is predictive in just the same way as the theory of gravity. It anticipated genetics by postulating the notion of inheritable characteristics. It predicted genetic difference based on population separation. It proposed change through time. All of these hypotheticals fit the facts of observation. The lab is the world. People everywhere can look and see the same thing. Blindness here is the result of the intention to be blind.
You seem to think, Torm, that scientists are hell bent on disproving the existence of God. I think that's because it is you who are doing that but in the opposite direction. You have a need. Scientists of all faiths and no faith believe in evolution. It is irrelevant as to whether there is a God or not. Evolution is good science because it makes sense. Scientists will drop it like a hot potato if facts come to light that lead to better explanation. There is no big disagreement among scientists about its validity, only it's details. Evolution is a fact in every meaningful sense of the word.
We are, by the way, more than 98% genetically identical to chimps. In the animal kingdom classification arena that means that humans and chimps are not only not different geneses, but also the same species. Have a banana.
Exactly the opposite applies to religious apologists. They know the end they want to get to and reason to prove it. For that reason their thinking is biased. It is what makes their thinking look silly to a scientifically oriented mind.
A fact, scientifically isn't much more that a consensual agreement among cognoscenti. We can repeat gravity experiments in labs and get the same results. The rest of us assume they are repeatable, but we don't do the experiments ourselves. We take them on faith. This is not, I think, analogous to religious faith. We have figured out that gravity is a property of mass. We have a theory about it. The theory makes sense based not only on repeatability, but elegance. It makes sense of phenomena that were previously nonsensical and is predictive. It anticipates black holes, which have subsequently been observed. A full theory of gravity, however, remains elusive.
The theory of evolution is also a theory, but the fiction that because it can't be repeated in the lab it is somehow suspect is nonsense, because it fits known facts and is predictive in just the same way as the theory of gravity. It anticipated genetics by postulating the notion of inheritable characteristics. It predicted genetic difference based on population separation. It proposed change through time. All of these hypotheticals fit the facts of observation. The lab is the world. People everywhere can look and see the same thing. Blindness here is the result of the intention to be blind.
You seem to think, Torm, that scientists are hell bent on disproving the existence of God. I think that's because it is you who are doing that but in the opposite direction. You have a need. Scientists of all faiths and no faith believe in evolution. It is irrelevant as to whether there is a God or not. Evolution is good science because it makes sense. Scientists will drop it like a hot potato if facts come to light that lead to better explanation. There is no big disagreement among scientists about its validity, only it's details. Evolution is a fact in every meaningful sense of the word.
We are, by the way, more than 98% genetically identical to chimps. In the animal kingdom classification arena that means that humans and chimps are not only not different geneses, but also the same species. Have a banana.
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,112
- 1,587
- 126
i heard the world would come to an end in 2013
JeremyJoe what you're referring to is a prediction made by the Mayans that when adapted for the modern calendar says the world will end in 2013 or 2014, I can't remember which.
It proved that no 'ape' living or found dead has ANY link via DNA to ANY Human
You can't really say that apes have NO link to humans considering that the DNA of the majority of creatures on this planet is about 80% the same.
and evolution's current belief is that man and apes had a common ancestor. this is based on similarities to species that existed and have long since gone extinct. but were replaced by species that had more similarities to man. the idea is that these dissappeared species were our ancestors that evolved into new species. it's a little hard to prove when it happened so long ago. like how the first appearance of mitochondria (the power house of a cell) was in a human like creature dubbed mitochondrial eve and later to be in humans when we came around. I'll believe in science more than religionand considering that the bible thinks the earth is only 6000 years old and numerous forms of dating have found it to be millions or billions of years old. I think the bible has been disproven.
also it's Origin of Species not Origin of the Species. it was generic for all species, so there is no the
and just so I don't get flamed, I'm not saying that christianity has been proven wrong. just the Bible. We know the Bible was written by people and that it was written very biased and that people write what they believe, not what is true necessarily.
JeremyJoe what you're referring to is a prediction made by the Mayans that when adapted for the modern calendar says the world will end in 2013 or 2014, I can't remember which.
It proved that no 'ape' living or found dead has ANY link via DNA to ANY Human
You can't really say that apes have NO link to humans considering that the DNA of the majority of creatures on this planet is about 80% the same.
and evolution's current belief is that man and apes had a common ancestor. this is based on similarities to species that existed and have long since gone extinct. but were replaced by species that had more similarities to man. the idea is that these dissappeared species were our ancestors that evolved into new species. it's a little hard to prove when it happened so long ago. like how the first appearance of mitochondria (the power house of a cell) was in a human like creature dubbed mitochondrial eve and later to be in humans when we came around. I'll believe in science more than religionand considering that the bible thinks the earth is only 6000 years old and numerous forms of dating have found it to be millions or billions of years old. I think the bible has been disproven.
also it's Origin of Species not Origin of the Species. it was generic for all species, so there is no the
and just so I don't get flamed, I'm not saying that christianity has been proven wrong. just the Bible. We know the Bible was written by people and that it was written very biased and that people write what they believe, not what is true necessarily.
apoppin
Lifer
The Bible does NOT make the claim that the earth is only 6,000 years old (nor that it was created in 6 literal days). You criticize what you do not know.
Evolution does not meet the definition of science. Not ALL scientists believe it.
From past discussions with evolutionists here, I have noticed that evolution is often confused with variety within species (which belief in creation also allows for).
Evolution does not meet the definition of science. Not ALL scientists believe it.
From past discussions with evolutionists here, I have noticed that evolution is often confused with variety within species (which belief in creation also allows for).
Not to say that everything in the Bible is wrong, but it was written by a human and therefore contains much bias as well as personal interpretation of God's teachings.
Not to say that science is completely wrong but it makes one big assumption, that everything can be measure/mass.
The lesson of the day resides in Einstein's quote:
<< Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. >>
Not to say that science is completely wrong but it makes one big assumption, that everything can be measure/mass.
The lesson of the day resides in Einstein's quote:
<< Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. >>
kami
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 17,627
- 5
- 81
I love these AT religion/evolution debates 
check out this short story...probably my favorite one out there. nice ending too.
---
The Last Question
How will the future of the universe be like? (from Isaac Asimov)
The Story begins in the year 2061, when a colossal computer has solved the Earth's energy problems by designing a massive solar satellite in space that can beam the sun's energy back to earth. The AC (analog computer) is so large and advanced that its technicians have only the vaguest idea of how it operates. On a $5 bet, two drunken technicians ask the computer whether the sun's eventual death can be avoided or, for that matter, whether the universe must inevitably die. After quietly mulling over this question, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Centuries into the future, the AC has solved the problem of hyperspace travel, and humans begin colonizing thousands of star systems. The AC is so large that it occupies several hundred square miles on each planet and so complex that it maintains and services itself. A young family is rocketing through hyperspace, unerringly guided by the AC, in search of a new star system to colonize. When the father casually mentions that the stars must eventually die, the children become hysterical. "Don't let the stars die," plead the children. To calm the children, he asks the AC if entropy can be reversed. "See," reassures the father, reading the AC's response, "the AC can solve everything". He comforts them by saying, "it will take care of everything when the time comes, so don't worry." He never tells the children that the AC actually prints out: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Thousands of years into the future, the Galaxy itself has been colonized. The AC has solved the problem of immortality and harnesses the energy of the Galaxy, but must find new galaxies for colonization. The AC is so complex that it is long past the point where anyone understands how it works. It continually redesigns and improves its own circuits. Two members of the Galactic Council, each hundreds of years old, debate the urgent question of finding new galactic energy sources, and wonder if the universe itself is running down. Can entropy be reversed?, they ask. The AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Millions of years into the future, humanity has spread across the uncountable galaxies of the universe. The AC has solved the problem of releasing the mind from the body, and human minds are free to explore the vastness of millions of galaxies, with their bodies savely stored on some long forgotten planet. Two minds accidentally meet each other in outer space, and casually wonder where among the uncountable galaxies humans originated. The AC, which is now so large that most of it has to be housed in hyperspace, responds by instantly transporting them to an obscure galaxy. They are disappointed. The galaxy is so ordinary, like millions of other galaxies, and the original star has long since died. The two minds become anxious because billions of stars in the heavens are slowly meeting the same fate. The two minds ask, can the death of the universe itself be avoided? From hyperspace, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Billions of years into the future, humanity consists of a trillion, trillion, trillion immortal bodies, each cared for by automatons. Humanity's collective mind, which is free to roam anywhere in the universe at will, eventually fuses into a single mind, which in turn fuses with the AC itself. It no longer makes sense to ask what the AC is made of, or where in hyperspace it really is. "The universe is dying," thinks Man, collectively. One by one, as the stars and galaxies cease to generate energy, temperatures throughout the universe approach absolute zero. Man desperately asks if the cold and darkness slowly engulfing the galaxies mean its eventual death. From hyperspace, the AC answers: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
When Man asks the AC to collect the necessary data, it responds: I WILL DO SO. I HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. MY PREDECESSORS HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION MANY TIMES. ALL THE DATA I HAVE REMAINS INSUFFICIENT.
A timeless interval passes, and the universe has finally reached its ultimate death. From hyperspace, the AC spends an eternity collecting data and contemplating the final question. At last, the AC discovers the solution, even though there is no longer anyone to give the answer. The AC carefully formulates a program, and then begins the process of reversing Chaos. It collects cold, interstellar gas, brings together the dead stars, until a gigantic ball is created.
Then, when its labors are done, from hyperspace the AC thunders:
LET THERE BE LIGHT!
And there was light....
And on the seventh day, He rested.
--
here's an interesting site as well. check the archives.
check out this short story...probably my favorite one out there. nice ending too.
---
The Last Question
How will the future of the universe be like? (from Isaac Asimov)
The Story begins in the year 2061, when a colossal computer has solved the Earth's energy problems by designing a massive solar satellite in space that can beam the sun's energy back to earth. The AC (analog computer) is so large and advanced that its technicians have only the vaguest idea of how it operates. On a $5 bet, two drunken technicians ask the computer whether the sun's eventual death can be avoided or, for that matter, whether the universe must inevitably die. After quietly mulling over this question, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Centuries into the future, the AC has solved the problem of hyperspace travel, and humans begin colonizing thousands of star systems. The AC is so large that it occupies several hundred square miles on each planet and so complex that it maintains and services itself. A young family is rocketing through hyperspace, unerringly guided by the AC, in search of a new star system to colonize. When the father casually mentions that the stars must eventually die, the children become hysterical. "Don't let the stars die," plead the children. To calm the children, he asks the AC if entropy can be reversed. "See," reassures the father, reading the AC's response, "the AC can solve everything". He comforts them by saying, "it will take care of everything when the time comes, so don't worry." He never tells the children that the AC actually prints out: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Thousands of years into the future, the Galaxy itself has been colonized. The AC has solved the problem of immortality and harnesses the energy of the Galaxy, but must find new galaxies for colonization. The AC is so complex that it is long past the point where anyone understands how it works. It continually redesigns and improves its own circuits. Two members of the Galactic Council, each hundreds of years old, debate the urgent question of finding new galactic energy sources, and wonder if the universe itself is running down. Can entropy be reversed?, they ask. The AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Millions of years into the future, humanity has spread across the uncountable galaxies of the universe. The AC has solved the problem of releasing the mind from the body, and human minds are free to explore the vastness of millions of galaxies, with their bodies savely stored on some long forgotten planet. Two minds accidentally meet each other in outer space, and casually wonder where among the uncountable galaxies humans originated. The AC, which is now so large that most of it has to be housed in hyperspace, responds by instantly transporting them to an obscure galaxy. They are disappointed. The galaxy is so ordinary, like millions of other galaxies, and the original star has long since died. The two minds become anxious because billions of stars in the heavens are slowly meeting the same fate. The two minds ask, can the death of the universe itself be avoided? From hyperspace, the AC responds: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
Billions of years into the future, humanity consists of a trillion, trillion, trillion immortal bodies, each cared for by automatons. Humanity's collective mind, which is free to roam anywhere in the universe at will, eventually fuses into a single mind, which in turn fuses with the AC itself. It no longer makes sense to ask what the AC is made of, or where in hyperspace it really is. "The universe is dying," thinks Man, collectively. One by one, as the stars and galaxies cease to generate energy, temperatures throughout the universe approach absolute zero. Man desperately asks if the cold and darkness slowly engulfing the galaxies mean its eventual death. From hyperspace, the AC answers: INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
When Man asks the AC to collect the necessary data, it responds: I WILL DO SO. I HAVE BEEN DOING SO FOR A HUNDRED BILLION YEARS. MY PREDECESSORS HAVE BEEN ASKED THIS QUESTION MANY TIMES. ALL THE DATA I HAVE REMAINS INSUFFICIENT.
A timeless interval passes, and the universe has finally reached its ultimate death. From hyperspace, the AC spends an eternity collecting data and contemplating the final question. At last, the AC discovers the solution, even though there is no longer anyone to give the answer. The AC carefully formulates a program, and then begins the process of reversing Chaos. It collects cold, interstellar gas, brings together the dead stars, until a gigantic ball is created.
Then, when its labors are done, from hyperspace the AC thunders:
LET THERE BE LIGHT!
And there was light....
And on the seventh day, He rested.
--
here's an interesting site as well. check the archives.
kami
Happy New Year.
Thanks.
I had jesus over for a night cap last night.We swapped parables al night long(real knee slappers!) He had so much fun he decided to give us more time to cleanup our act. The second coming has been postponed. The work of man is not finished.
j/k
Happy New Year.
Thanks.
I had jesus over for a night cap last night.We swapped parables al night long(real knee slappers!) He had so much fun he decided to give us more time to cleanup our act. The second coming has been postponed. The work of man is not finished.
j/k
Adam & Eve?
never took it literally, but it points to the fact that man's given nature hasn't changed since the story was first written...
It's an exposition on blame shifting and lack of responsibility...
God... i told you not to eat the apple!
Adam.. it was the woman who did it
Eve... it was the snake who made me do it
Snake. laughs, not because man ate the apple, but because man failed to take responsibility for his actions
Is there an argument against evolution in there.. maybe so
never took it literally, but it points to the fact that man's given nature hasn't changed since the story was first written...
It's an exposition on blame shifting and lack of responsibility...
God... i told you not to eat the apple!
Adam.. it was the woman who did it
Eve... it was the snake who made me do it
Snake. laughs, not because man ate the apple, but because man failed to take responsibility for his actions
Is there an argument against evolution in there.. maybe so
Nonsense, appopin, there are scientists who claim all kinds of things. We probably could find a scientist who claims that there is no gravity, or that it's Gods magnitism that holds the world together, but that doesn't mean that gravity doesn't meet the definition of science. Those who doubt evolution usually have a religious axe to grind. Evolution is accepted scientific fact. It is what happened from the evidence provided by the world. Consensus is general, not absolute. The only problem with evolution is that it threatens certain forms of belief. The problem is with the belief, not evolution. Religion had to get past the fact that the earth is not the center of the universe, not the center even of the solar system, that it's not flat, etc. It will get over the fact that we are chimpanzees.
<< First they say it's in 1999. Then 2000. And finally 2001, when it's the real millennium, we're once again dissappointed. >>
Because so-called "prophets" who actually listen to the voice of God and who actually read the Bible won't try saying when it will happen. The Bible says that Jesus Himself will not know the time of His return until God the Father tells Jesus that it is time.
Relax.
The cafe is open tomorrow.
" we are chimpanzees "
Moonbeam... just who are you calling a chimp here now
The argument is moot in my mind, but I want to be left out of that generalization...
Moonbeam... just who are you calling a chimp here now
The argument is moot in my mind, but I want to be left out of that generalization...
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