Question Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

[TheRookie]

Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

AMD could simple release the same Renoir mobile processors on the desktop.

For example:

Ryzen 5 4600H --> Ryzen 5 3600G

Ryzen 7 4800H --> Ryzen 7 3700G/3800G

 

[Shivansps]

Desktop Picasso has what? 6 months in market? Desktop Raven Ridge had like 17 months in market before getting replaced by Picasso. Saying that they will come out this July is very optimistic.

About annoucements they probably want to delay it at least until reviews of the mobile ones are out. If they come out now and say that the 4200G has a Vega 5 or Vega 6 they are going to get hit by a backlash until they can prove that these are faster. And even then is not enoght for me bacause its Vega.

 

[Topweasel]

My point was that if Renoir desktop was introduced today, you'll be able to buy it right away.

Even if it comes say June, it'll be at most 3 months behind the mobile parts, not 6 months.

Why hold back either way. I mean yeah AMD basically told us these chips are already shipping for sale. But if they were releasing desktop APU's any time this half, why not announce them now. The main reason is they don't know how mobile purchases will leave them bin wise for SKU's. They will wait till well Laptops start selling before they even think about desktop APU's. This is why they waited well after EPYC for Ryzen and TR releases. It's why certain SKU's that would have major value on retail are OEM only and so on. That's not to say they can't come in June. Just saying the better these sell in Laptops the longer we wait for desktop. Could even see a situation where we don't see these on the desktop till AMD is nearing release it's replacement.

 

[joesiv]

Gotta space out the products to hit all the news cycles!

 

[Topweasel]

Gotta space out the products to hit all the news cycles!

That helps. But even if the 4800G is the best APU not in a console ever, its not going to hit as hard as the AMD's big announcements these last 3 quarters. But then again even the higher demand products will still have trouble keeping up the best year AMD ever had publicity wise.

 

[maddie]

Desktop Picasso has what? 6 months in market? Desktop Raven Ridge had like 17 months in market before getting replaced by Picasso. Saying that they will come out this July is very optimistic.

About annoucements they probably want to delay it at least until reviews of the mobile ones are out. If they come out now and say that the 4200G has a Vega 5 or Vega 6 they are going to get hit by a backlash until they can prove that these are faster. And even then is not enoght for me bacause its Vega.

I understand your position in Argentina, but really, what is the alternative? Do people stop buying computers? Serious question.

 

[Shivansps]

I understand your position in Argentina, but really, what is the alternative? Do people stop buying computers? Serious question.

People are gonna keep buying, there is no choice. That dosent means that i have to like that AMD is cutting costs on APUs.
Remember that i used a 2200G-3200G for a total of 10 months after i had to sell my RX480, i like what these little APUs can do so im pissed right now. In fact i was limited by my motherboard VRMs for IGP overcloking, not the APU itseft.

 

[Topweasel]

People are gonna keep buying, there is no choice. That dosent means that i have to like that AMD is cutting costs on APUs.
Remember that i used a 2200G-3200G for a total of 10 months when i dint had a dgpu, i like what these little APUs can do so im pissed right now.

Who said they are cost cutting?
Think you are projecting there. They cut the die size by 25%, but this is on almost 4x the cost per wafer, plus decrease of the new process on yeilds. But at 50% more dense.

What they really did was prioritize core count increase. The first since they created their first APU's.

 

[Shivansps]

Who said they are cost cutting?
Think you are projecting there. They cut the die size by 25%, but this is on almost 4x the cost per wafer, plus decrease of the new process on yeilds. But at 50% more dense.

What they really did was prioritize core count increase. The first since they created their first APU's.

I know they did that due to having to step up their game in notebooks but lets be honest, in desktop, if you can buy a $300+ 8C CPU, and a good motherboard you can buy a RX550/GT1030. And as a bonus it wouldt use any of your ram. Very expensive APUs are the ones that are really a niche here.

Dont get me wrong i welcome more APUs, but Vega segmentation is going to hurt were the APUs make more sence.

 

[Topweasel]

I know they did that due to having to step up their game in notebooks but lets be honest, in desktop, if you can buy a $300+ 8C CPU, and a good motherboard you can buy a RX550/GT1030. And as a bonus it wouldt use any of your ram. Very expensive APUs are the ones that are really a niche here.

Dont get me wrong i welcome more APUs, but Vega segmentation is going to hurt were the APUs make more sence.

APU's make more sense as Laptop CPU's. I get what your saying but it doesn't remove the fact that these are Laptop CPU's whatever you plan on doing with them and the GPU portion when talking about desktop APU's have played a nearly insignificant portion of purchasing decision of purchasers of those APU's.

 

[RetroZombie]

A GPU is far more forgiving if it has defects on the die. You just need to disable the CUs that are affected. With CPUs its not.

I have to disagree, a soc like renoir besides the ability to disabled CUs they also have cpu cores they can disable.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I have to disagree, a soc like renoir besides the ability to disabled CUs they also have cpu cores they can disable.

A pure GPU like Navi is still much easier.

Why?

Because a CPU can only be disabled at a core level. You can't really disable the FPUs or the ALUs.

An 8 CU GPU is made up of 512 ALUs. Plus lot of them are made up of SRAM and they are very repetitive structures.

 

[RetroZombie]

An 8 CU GPU is made up of 512 ALUs. Plus lot of them are made up of SRAM and they are very repetitive structures.

Ok but in a cpu which have 8 cpu cores and 8 gpu cu units, it's not much difficult to disable one or the other.
You do it just for product segmentation, yields, broken part, ...

 

[JPB]

Courtesy of Hexus

AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS appears in Time Spy CPU benchmarks

An encouraging benchmark run for the AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS APU has been unearthed in the 3DMark Time Spy benchmark online results browser. First of all you might be asking what is the Ryzen 7 4800HS? At the launch of the Ryzen 4000 Series mobile APUs AMD revealed details about the Ryzen 7 4800H, and this 4800HS model appears to be an optimised top-binned 35W version of that mobile APU, destined for premium gaming laptops.

Twitter's Tum Apisak found the AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS in Time Spy benchmarks online and has listed its CPU score alongside friends and rivals as below:
Time Spy CPU Score

• R7 4800HS - 8,730
• R7 4800H - 8,350
• R7 3700X - 10,180
• R7 2700X - 8,600
• R5 3600 - 7,300
• R5 3600 - 7,150
• i7-9700K - 8,200

The above table is all the more remarkable when one considers the TDPs of the chips that are listed. The AMD Ryzen 7 4800HS is a 35W part, the standard 4800H a 45W part. Compared to a previous gen desktop part, the powerful 105W AMD Ryzen 7 2700X, the new 4800HS still comes ahead in this CPU score benchmark run. All the aforementioned CPUs have a 8C/16T configuration. The sole Intel entry in the comparison list above is the 8C/8T Core i7-9700K, which has a 95W TDP and a Time Spy CPU Score of 8,200.

Time Spy CPU Scores that leak out like this might have a lot of variance due to other system components and so on, however, it is still a tantalising indicator that there are some exceedingly beefy AMD powered laptops on the way.
Lenovo touts AMD Ryzen 9 4900U powered laptops
On the topic of AMD 4000 series mobile APUs, Lenovo was recently spotted showing off its latest Yoga Slim 7 family of 2-in-1 laptops with choice of AMD or Intel processors. Notebook Italia recorded a video of the exhibition which claimed one of the laptops came with an AMD Ryzen 9 4900U inside.

The source has since blurred out the AMD processor info in the video(embedded above), saying it was a typo on the Lenovo specs list. It is hard to be sure if this is the case, or if AMD exerted some pressure on its partners to keep the Ryzen 9 4900XX APUs under wraps for now. Interestingly the official Yoga Slim 7 (14-inch, AMD) product page still lists the processor as an AMD Ryzen 4000 Series, with choice of "up to AMD Ryzen 9," available for users to configure.

 

[RetroZombie]

saying it was a typo on the Lenovo specs list. It is hard to be sure if this is the case, or if AMD exerted some pressure on its partners to keep the Ryzen 9 4900XX APUs under wraps for now

I still have hopes for the ryzen 9 apu being something better than almost equal to the ryzen 7 4800u, but the ryzen 5 2500u was the same of the ryzen 7 2700u so that would not surprise me.

Ryzen 9 being renoir with one zen2 chiplet or zen2 + rdna1 would also be great, but my expectations are next to none for that.

 

[Shivansps]

No way that was a typo.

 

[Shivansps]

My expected lineup for desktop Renois is like this:

-Athlon/Ryzen 3 4100G 4/4 Vega 5 1300mhz $80
-Ryzen 3 4200G 4/8 Vega 6 1500mhz $100
-Ryzen 5 4400G 6/6 Vega 8 1500mhz $150
-Ryzen 5 4600G 6/12 Vega 8 1600mhz $200
-Ryzen 7 4700G 8/8 Vega 8 1700mhz $250
-Ryzen 7 4800G 8/16 Vega 8 1750mhz $300

 

[Thunder 57]

My expected lineup for desktop Renois is like this:

-Athlon/Ryzen 3 4100G 4/4 Vega 5 1300mhz $80
-Ryzen 3 4200G 4/8 Vega 6 1500mhz $100
-Ryzen 5 4400G 6/6 Vega 8 1500mhz $150
-Ryzen 5 4600G 6/12 Vega 8 1600mhz $200
-Ryzen 7 4700G 8/8 Vega 8 1700mhz $250
-Ryzen 7 4800G 8/16 Vega 8 1750mhz $300

I don't know. With Picasso, it looks like AMD had seven mobile compared to three desktop models. If I had to take a shot at it I'd speculate something closer to this (your list, changes bolded).

-Ryzen 3 4200G 4/8 Vega 6 1500mhz $120
-Ryzen 5 4600G 6/12 Vega 6 1600mhz $200
-Ryzen 7 4700G 8/8 Vega 8 1700mhz $270
-Ryzen 7 4800G 8/16 Vega 8 1750mhz $330

Really can't even guess on prices though, to be honest. APU's have always been lower end on the desktop. I think they may make a push and sell some high end ones. The pricing is probably going to depend on what current Matisse models are going for by the time they launch them though. I really don't think there will be a lower end 4/4 model. I think they will rely on Picasso to cover that market. Also, I think Vega clock speeds might be a bit higher all around given the power budget.

 

[Shivansps]

I don't know. With Picasso, it looks like AMD had seven mobile compared to three desktop models. If I had to take a shot at it I'd speculate something closer to this (your list, changes bolded).

-Ryzen 3 4200G 4/8 Vega 6 1500mhz $120
-Ryzen 5 4600G 6/12 Vega 6 1600mhz $200
-Ryzen 7 4700G 8/8 Vega 8 1700mhz $270
-Ryzen 7 4800G 8/16 Vega 8 1750mhz $330

Really can't even guess on prices though, to be honest. APU's have always been lower end on the desktop. I think they may make a push and sell some high end ones. The pricing is probably going to depend on what current Matisse models are going for by the time they launch them though. I really don't think there will be a lower end 4/4 model. I think they will rely on Picasso to cover that market. Also, I think Vega clock speeds might be a bit higher all around given the power budget.

The thing is i fully expect them to launch a sku in the $150 area once the 2600 stock drys up and the 3400G to have a replacement SKU, since it is the most successfull APU in desktop, and they need to use Vega 8 for it otherwise the performance loss would be too large.

4/4 Athlon is happening for sure if the 4200G is 4/8, it is a matter of time, probably about 6 months after Renoir launches, but yeah they may use Picasso for it.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I think they may make a push and sell some high end ones.

Who is going to buy them? On the desktop, it's just so much easier to throw in a dGPU and call it a day. All the major OEMs seem to have boatloads of cheap dGPUs they use in every budget desktop/AiO they sell. Along with single-DIMM configs that are bad for APUs of any kind.

Since AMD has decided to push the 4800HS as a 35W part for laptops, it's logical to conclude that they might sell that product socketed for AM4 at a price premium in very small numbers. But dedicated, high-cost APU designs for AM4 seems like a stretch.

 

[Thunder 57]

Who is going to buy them? On the desktop, it's just so much easier to throw in a dGPU and call it a day. All the major OEMs seem to have boatloads of cheap dGPUs they use in every budget desktop/AiO they sell. Along with single-DIMM configs that are bad for APUs of any kind.

Since AMD has decided to push the 4800HS as a 35W part for laptops, it's logical to conclude that they might sell that product socketed for AM4 at a price premium in very small numbers. But dedicated, high-cost APU designs for AM4 seems like a stretch.

A chip with video is very attractive for your basic business box. Margins probably aren't great, but there are a ton of those. More of them than consoles, I'd bet.

 

[maddie]

A chip with video is very attractive for your basic business box. Margins probably aren't great, but there are a ton of those. More of them than consoles, I'd bet.

Agreed, also, is the cost really more than a chiplet Ryzen? A 75mm^2 CPU chiplet and a 150mm^2 IO die + assembly with complicated package traces, probably costs as much to make as a monolithic Renoir of 150mm^2 and simpler package. And this is assuming that 7nm is twice as expensive as 14nm, which probably isn't true anymore. Renoir might actually be cheaper to manufacture than single chipet Ryzen.

 

[DrMrLordX]

A chip with video is very attractive for your basic business box. Margins probably aren't great, but there are a ton of those. More of them than consoles, I'd bet.

Right, but "a chip with video" is covered by the cheap non-premium APUs they already have on the market. If they are going to sell Renoir as a desktop APU, I don't expect the price points to go above the 3400G.

 

[Shivansps]

Right, but "a chip with video" is covered by the cheap non-premium APUs they already have on the market. If they are going to sell Renoir as a desktop APU, I don't expect the price points to go above the 3400G.

APU now have 6 and 8 core, they have to increase prices.

 

[jpiniero]

APU now have 6 and 8 core, they have to increase prices.

They could just make 6 and 8 core models OEM only.

 

[DrMrLordX]

APU now have 6 and 8 core, they have to increase prices.

Why? The low-end Matisse 6c chip launched at $199 and is dropping in price already. There's plenty of room for a downclocked 6c APU that isn't as fast as a 3600 in the traditional APU price points. 8c maybe so, but by the time Vermeer is out, there will be plenty of room in AMD's lineup for a $150-ish 8c Renoir on the desktop.