• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Question Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

TheRookie

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2019
14
2
16
Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

AMD could simple release the same Renoir mobile processors on the desktop.

For example:

Ryzen 5 4600H --> Ryzen 5 3600G

Ryzen 7 4800H --> Ryzen 7 3700G/3800G
 

firewolfsm

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2005
1,831
7
81
We don't know. The most likely answer is it's just a matter of priority, maybe sales of last gen desktop APUs were low, or the profit margins weren't as high as in laptops.
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
1,402
1,204
106
Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

AMD could simple release the same Renoir mobile processors on the desktop.

For example:

Ryzen 5 4600H --> Ryzen 5 3600G

Ryzen 7 4800H --> Ryzen 7 3700G/3800G
They will be launched along the Zen 3 Ryzen chips, just like the Zen+ Ryzen APUs were launched along the Zen 2 Ryzen chips last summer. For these APUs the mobile market is higher margin than the desktop market where the APUs are essentially sold at the same price as comparable iGPU less Ryzen CPUs, even though the latter's manufacturing cost is significantly lower (due to smaller dies). To make up for that the APUs are launched much later in the desktop market.

I'd love to have a Zen 2 APU for a DeskMini A300 as well, alas we have to wait.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,240
1,371
136
Big reason you don't do it now is the simplest. Availability, right now it looks like their APU's will be in heavy demand in the laptop market since its the most lucrative for OEM's and they are getting shafted hard by Intel specially on the high end (it took me 2 months to get 20 6 core i7 based laptops from Lenovo). But these still have to sell in retail. So AMD will be offering them first as Laptop CPU's and if sales are great the longer before they start prepping the desktop chips.
 

TheRookie

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2019
14
2
16
They will be launched along the Zen 3 Ryzen chips, just like the Zen+ Ryzen APUs were launched along the Zen 2 Ryzen chips last summer. For these APUs the mobile market is higher margin than the desktop market where the APUs are essentially sold at the same price as comparable iGPU less Ryzen CPUs, even though the latter's manufacturing cost is significantly lower (due to smaller dies). To make up for that the APUs are launched much later in the desktop market.

I'd love to have a Zen 2 APU for a DeskMini A300 as well, alas we have to wait.
Renoir's die is around the same size as Navi 14's die.
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
1,402
1,204
106
Renoir's die is around the same size as Navi 14's die.
What got Navi 14's die size to do with anything on this topic?

Renoir's die is about double the size of a Zen 2 CCD, which due to worse yield makes it cost more than double to manufacture. But AMD sells desktop APUs essentially at the same price as comparable CPUs.
 

TheRookie

Junior Member
Aug 26, 2019
14
2
16
Yeah think of it this was a 4800U could sell as high as $500 and be competitive with Intel pricing for the perf. A 4800G at best can only sell for $300. The disparity gets worse down the stack.
Doubtful.

AMD compares Ryzen 7 4800U to the Core i7-1065G7.

Core i7-1065G7 has an RCP of $426.

I doubt AMD would ask more than that for Ryzen 7 4800U.

Likewise, AMD compares Ryzen 7 4800U to the Core i7-9750H.

Core i7-9750H has an RCP of $395.
 
Last edited:

soresu

Senior member
Dec 19, 2014
970
313
136
Why hasn't AMD announced desktop Renoir APUs?

AMD could simple release the same Renoir mobile processors on the desktop.

For example:

Ryzen 5 4600H --> Ryzen 5 3600G

Ryzen 7 4800H --> Ryzen 7 3700G/3800G
Expect them when the Zen 3/Ryzen 4000 desktop SKU's launch I reckon.
 

soresu

Senior member
Dec 19, 2014
970
313
136
I might add that desktop APU's are not their focus now, their focus is on improving mobile marketshare - so that means all new most efficient APU's go to mobile for a while.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,240
1,371
136
You should re-read what I wrote.

Specifically, the first sentence.
Doubtful?


The CPU that you say a 4800U (a 8c16t, full featured iGPU, 1.9 GHz base, 4.3GHz Turbo) best compares to. Please review the featureset and projected performance of these two chips and tell me how the 1065G7 best compares to a 4800U? I mean it might be Intels best (I don't know, I mean I don't think they have a U sku better). But you really think AMD can't demand $500 for an 8c16t ultra portable CPU. Because I do, that's amazing performance for the size and I pray Microsoft uses it in Gen 8 Surfaces, because it will be the first time I get an upper end one.

Edit: Crap you meant how you worded the second sentence. Well the question is does Intel have a better U sku. Otherwise what is AMD supposed to compare it to?
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
6,705
42
91
www.teamjuchems.com
Does this APU launch tell us anything about the coming consoles? Surely they will resemble this somewhat, but with a different memory controller and a lot more die size for the GPU portion?

I agree with other assertions that any kind of laptop options that have parity with Intel is likely what OEM's have been asking for, so it makes a lot of sense to give them what they want.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
752
209
86
Because it's a high end mobile oriented product. The main goal for now is to be able to keep up production to feed these higher margin markets.

When that's done and there are plenty of dies to go around I'm sure they will launch AM4 desktop.

Similar thing happened with Carrizo and Bristol Ridge launch. It was mobile oriented, launched there first. And even when it made its way to AM4/fm2+ OEMs got first dibs for quite a few months before these made their way to DIY boxed retail.

Consumers still have Matisse (gpu-less) to choose from as well as Picasso. I think Matisse may even have a bigger L3 which is an advantage. So if you want something equivalent or slightly better than 8CU 7nm Vega iGPU then pick up an 1030 or 550rx, or some used $30-40 older gen graphics card.
 

gdansk

Senior member
Feb 8, 2011
423
81
91
It would require new AGESA version and maybe that team is still busy.
They should be focused on getting laptop designs. ODMs are known to demand the availability of large quantities to even design a product around a chip.
 

insertcarehere

Senior member
Jan 17, 2013
276
75
101
AMD has been trying to push desktop APUs for ages and those things have never proven popular with customers. Why bother with a large-ish monolithic chip which will effectively be wasted on a seldom used iGPU when a chiplet-based Zen 2 sans GPU can command similar/higher prices on less cost?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
6,577
1,116
126
Desktop Renoir could be announced at March and still arrive at the same time as mobile Renoir.

That's because with Desktop chips you can buy the chip and build the system based on it the day of the launch.

Laptops require customization by the manufacturer so it takes a few months. The availability dates for the Ryzen mobile 4000 laptops range between March to May.

Renoir's die is around the same size as Navi 14's die.
A GPU is far more forgiving if it has defects on the die. You just need to disable the CUs that are affected. With CPUs its not.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,571
1,437
126
AMD has been trying to push desktop APUs for ages and those things have never proven popular with customers. Why bother with a large-ish monolithic chip which will effectively be wasted on a seldom used iGPU when a chiplet-based Zen 2 sans GPU can command similar/higher prices on less cost?
IGP is important for mass market business machines... but those markets are not exactly high margin.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,571
1,437
126
Does this APU launch tell us anything about the coming consoles? Surely they will resemble this somewhat, but with a different memory controller and a lot more die size for the GPU portion?

I agree with other assertions that any kind of laptop options that have parity with Intel is likely what OEM's have been asking for, so it makes a lot of sense to give them what they want.
The consoles use Navi, not Vega, as well as different memory controllers, probably a bunch of custom hardware (like Microsoft's custom audio DSP from the XB1), raytracing hardware, etc. Only the CPU cluster is really the same.
 

Topweasel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2000
5,240
1,371
136
Does this APU launch tell us anything about the coming consoles? Surely they will resemble this somewhat, but with a different memory controller and a lot more die size for the GPU portion?

I agree with other assertions that any kind of laptop options that have parity with Intel is likely what OEM's have been asking for, so it makes a lot of sense to give them what they want.
That's a good question. My guess personally would be that the console Chips will be closer to Matassie then Renoir. There would be little room for error with the dies. Using CCD and dGPU dies with a custom IO die would mitigate or erase any yield risks.

But MS has been really big on the fact that they work with AMD on design of the CPU and own the rights to the chip itself so that they can source that independent of AMD. This allowed them to prevent issues like the Nvidia GPU one of the OG Xbox. If that's the case it will a large monolithic die with tons more space used for GPU.

Desktop Renoir could be announced at March and still arrive at the same time as mobile Renoir.

That's because with Desktop chips you can buy the chip and build the system based on it the day of the launch.

Laptops require customization by the manufacturer so it takes a few months. The availability dates for the Ryzen mobile 4000 laptops range between March to May.
Yeah but that work is already done on laptops as well. We are seeing them because AMD has been sampling and seeding these chips for months already. You don't announce the desktop chips now because you aren't doing the launch in the same window.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
6,577
1,116
126
Yeah but that work is already done on laptops as well. We are seeing them because AMD has been sampling and seeding these chips for months already. You don't announce the desktop chips now because you aren't doing the launch in the same window.
My point was that if Renoir desktop was introduced today, you'll be able to buy it right away.

Even if it comes say June, it'll be at most 3 months behind the mobile parts, not 6 months.
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
1,402
1,204
106
The consoles use Navi, not Vega, as well as different memory controllers, probably a bunch of custom hardware (like Microsoft's custom audio DSP from the XB1), raytracing hardware, etc. Only the CPU cluster is really the same.
Indeed. And even the Zen cluster may have customization for better backward compatibility with the Puma cluster (which again may have included some customization) from the previous gen.
 

uzzi38

Senior member
Oct 16, 2019
532
508
96
Desktop Renoir could be announced at March and still arrive at the same time as mobile Renoir.
Zephyrus lands in February, 12 Renoir laptops are landing by the end of March - no timeframe given but Q1. The other 88+ are over the rest of 2020.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY