Why has race relations gotten worse when laws/policies are passed to try to make it..

[brycejones]

If they quit shooting at cops then cops would quit shooting at them. Being uppity doesn't mean shooting at cops.

Obviously you have some solid data on how often certain groups have shot at the police and been shot vs not shooting at the police and been shot. Care to share?

 

[piasabird]

This is the Me generation and people think they are entitled to special rights they dont have. They are not respecting authority and when they break the law they automatically get confrontational with authority figures. Part of the problem lies with how the Media try to brainwash the public and always try to make the police look bad. Part of this problem is also the lawlessness for parts of American Culture. When the Police run into these kind of people, they have a confrontation which is forced upon them and they often are alone or find themselves surrounded by angry militant crowds. The stress is too much and police are bound to make mistakes over time and end up pulling the trigger. Police are way overworked and constantly forced into competitive and militant situations. It is a recipe for disaster. The worst part is some police officers are forced by budget cuts to work alone in a patrol cruiser. In Missouri, a police officer at a routine speeding stop talked to the speeder got his info and went back to his car to write up the ticket and do the paperwork and while doing so was shot by the speeder 3 times. This is why police often put people in the back of the police car to keep everyone safe. This is the one thing that stopped motorists do not want to do and fight against police officers for. It is a recipe for disaster to send police out alone to do traffic stops.

Dont call the cops unless you are willing to live with them shooting someone.

 

[piasabird]

There are too many criminals.

 

[Exophase]

A lot of posts in this thread are like "you think things are worse than pre-civil rights era? That's crazy!" But that's not what was stated at all. Just that things aren't always getting continually better across the board and that eg could be worse in some ways than they were 10-20 years ago.

 

[agent00f]

Race relations are approaching the level of the 1960's. I know I lived through it. It has gotten significantly worse in the last 8 years, under the leadership of the Community Organizer In Chief. Things have gotten even worse in the last couple of years.

The reason is the reduction of police presence in the crime areas. Despite what the racial arsonists and the national media espouse, most people who live in these neighborhoods welcome the presence of police. Black on black crime has exploded. In less than 2 weeks (July), there have been 15 homicides in Chicago and another 106 shot and wounded. Year to date in Chicago, 346 homicides and 1779 shot and wounded. In one US city, that is equivalent to what the US was seeing for casualties in Iraq. Start adding up the top 25 cities. I don't have the numbers.

http://heyjackass.com/


I put it squarely on the current administration, which is trying to undermine the police in major cities, by reinforcing that too many blacks are being incarcerated. Apparently the crimes committed are very disproportion for blacks versus other races. The administrations policies are getting cops and innocent bystanders killed, as well young black people.

This a book I want to read. It just came out last month. The War On Cops by Heather MacDonald.

https://www.amazon.com/War-Cops-Attack-Order-Everyone/dp/1594038759

This is completely false, which perusing the most basic wiki/goog search on historical race riots would correct for anyone interested in facts.

The more recent crime stats are mostly black on black drug gang related crime.

 

[agent00f]

This is the Me generation and people think they are entitled to special rights they dont have. They are not respecting authority and when they break the law they automatically get confrontational with authority figures. Part of the problem lies with how the Media try to brainwash the public and always try to make the police look bad. Part of this problem is also the lawlessness for parts of American Culture. When the Police run into these kind of people, they have a confrontation which is forced upon them and they often are alone or find themselves surrounded by angry militant crowds. The stress is too much and police are bound to make mistakes over time and end up pulling the trigger. Police are way overworked and constantly forced into competitive and militant situations. It is a recipe for disaster. The worst part is some police officers are forced by budget cuts to work alone in a patrol cruiser. In Missouri, a police officer at a routine speeding stop talked to the speeder got his info and went back to his car to write up the ticket and do the paperwork and while doing so was shot by the speeder 3 times. This is why police often put people in the back of the police car to keep everyone safe. This is the one thing that stopped motorists do not want to do and fight against police officers for. It is a recipe for disaster to send police out alone to do traffic stops.

Dont call the cops unless you are willing to live with them shooting someone.

The key aspect of #BLM or such which insulated white americans simply don't know is that black people sometimes just get pulled over & even hassled for no apparent reason. Of course the vast majority of these incidents do not result in shootings, but people who experience this see others get shot in the process and think it could very well be them if they make the wrong move.

It's understandable that people who aren't aware nevermind experience a situation can't sympathize with it, after all I don't get pulled over for nothing/BS, those people must be doing something wrong. But in the US a lot of racial animosity is built from cultural/habitual bigot groups which refuse to believe factual reality because their worldview depends on otherwise.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Not really relevant. Somebody said that people never stopped dragging people behind trucks. If this doesn't happen then the statement is false.

You going to claim that you never heard of James Byrd?

 

[schneiderguy]

Why has race relations gotten worse

Him and the media.

 

[theeedude]

Him and the media.

Yes, race relations were fantastic before Obama

 

[schneiderguy]

Yes, race relations were fantastic before Obama

I never said that. They are most certainly worse now, however.

 

[theeedude]

I never said that. They are most certainly worse now, however.

You are suffering from conservatism induced selective memory then.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Him and the media.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-comments-on-americas-terrible-week-demented-dallas-shooter/

President Obama sought to assure Americans that despite the "tough week" for the country, the nation still remains united, contrary to the fears of some that racial tensions -- in the wake of recent deadly shootings -- are boiling over and exposing deep divisions in the United States.

"As painful as this week has been, I firmly believe that America is not as divided as some have suggested," the president said Saturday, in a closing address to the NATO summit in Warsaw, Poland.

Americans of all races and all backgrounds are "rightly outraged by the inexcusable attacks on police," Mr. Obama noted, including protesters and family members who have "grave concerns about police conduct."

"They have said this is unacceptable. There's no division there," he added. Americans of all races and backgrounds are also "rightly saddened" by the deaths of Alton Sterling, Philando Castile and other black civilians at the hands of police system, the president said, along with the "larger persistent problems" of racially discriminatory practices in the criminal justice system.

"There is sorrow, there is anger, there is confusion about next steps, but there is unity in recognizing that this is not how we want our communities to operate," Mr. Obama said. "This is not how we want to be as Americans. And that serves as the basis for us being able to move forward in a constructive and positive way."

He denied that the events of this past week indicated a return to the violent upheaval of the 1960s during the civil rights movement.

"When we start suggesting that somehow there's this enormous polarization, and we're back to the situation in the '60s -- that's not true," he said. "You're not seeing riots and you're not seeing police going after people who are protesting peacefully. You've seen almost uniformly peaceful protests and you've seen uniformly police handling those protests with professionalism."

The president urged Americans to not "let the actions of a few define all of us," saying that the "demented individual" who carried out the attack in Dallas was "no more representative of African-Americans" than Dylann Roof, the suspect in the Charleston, South Carolina church shooting, was of white Americans or Omar Mateen, the gunman in the Orlando nightclub massacre, was of Muslim Americans.

"They don't speak for us - that's not who we are," the president said. Asked later on what caused the Dallas attacker to open fire on police officer, he added that it's "very hard to untangle the motives of this shooter."

"Although he may have used as an excuse his anger about previous incidents," he observed, "in no way does that represent what the overwhelming majority of what Americans think. Americans to a large degree want to make sure that we have a police force that is supported."

Asked about the recurring problem of mass shootings in the U.S. and possible gun control legislation, the president continued pushing for such measures.

"We cannot eliminate all racial tension in our country overnight," he acknowledged. Nor would it be easy to "eliminate every madman or troubled individual who may want to do harm against innocent people."

"But we can make it harder for them to do so" with gun control, the president said, mentioning the difficulty of policing the Dallas protests in the "open carry state" of Texas where numerous people in the crowd were holding firearms.

"If you care about the safety of our police officers, then you can't set aside the gun issue and pretend that that's irrelevant," he said.

The president previewed his plans for next week as well, discussing his visit to Dallas, Texas at the invitation of Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings and his plans to gather together together a task force to address criminal justice issues at the White House.

"The majority of Americans have acted with empathy and understanding," he said. "That's the spirit we all need to embrace. That's the spirit I want to build on."

 

[Knowing]

https://twitter.com/SpikeLee/status/751509172735381504

Spike Lee Verified account ‏@SpikeLee

Madness,Madness And Mo' Madness. America Is Broken. @ Forty Acres & A Mule https://www.instagram.com/p/BHnQq0Pj5Y3/

 

[someEEguy]

People profile when their lives are on the line, yes.

I agree that that maybe the mind set of a few in law enforcement right now but I don’t believe it to be sustainable because while it may make sense to some from a group level; from an individual level (where I think most humans operate from) it breeds fear, contempt and a deep sense of unfairness. People don’t like group punishment no matter how much one (i.e. a few in law enforcement, some politicians, the sniper’s sister, terrorists… etc) rationalizes it. Hence the protests we're seeing.

 

[someEEguy]

An unarmed white guy was just shot by cops, nobody makes a peep. The correlation between black people getting shot and black people shooting cops is pretty strong. The only cases that get blown out of proportion are black people being shot. Just look at that Michael Brown case, he clearly was the aggressor and because he was black it became a movement. White guy, unarmed gets shot by cops media makes no mention of it.

law enforcement has a better relationship with the community in question?

No. It explains the disparity, anecdotal cases don't prove a trend.

What are your thoughts on these:

vs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

 

[someEEguy]

They use common sense, you mean? Oh gee who wudda thunk it.

Whether people want to admit it or not, statistics do not lie. Your body and your mind won't let you ignore them when it comes to life or death situations.

You would be surprised, they can be very misleading. If you're interested, there is a free online Stanford course on medical statistics that covers some of the pitfalls extensively.

 

[shady28]

What are your thoughts on these:

vs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Do you think most marijuana arrests result from the police looking for people smoking pot, or do they occur as happenstance when the police are looking for something else?

Perhaps if those numbers were controlled for a principally black, very low crime are and compared to a principally white, very low crime area they would be meaningful. Naturally they aren't, because that isn't what the source study was trying to ascertain.

And then in the next post you go on to talk about how statistics can be misleading.

......

 

[ivwshane]

Do you think most marijuana arrests result from the police looking for people smoking pot, or do they occur as happenstance when the police are looking for something else?

Perhaps if those numbers were controlled for a principally black, very low crime are and compared to a principally white, very low crime area they would be meaningful. Naturally they aren't, because that isn't what the source study was trying to ascertain.

And then in the next post you go on to talk about how statistics can be misleading.

......

I get the feeling that even if there was a stat that met all your requirements you'd still find a reason to dismiss it.

 

[someEEguy]

Do you think most marijuana arrests result from the police looking for people smoking pot, or do they occur as happenstance when the police are looking for something else?

Perhaps if those numbers were controlled for a principally black, very low crime are and compared to a principally white, very low crime area they would be meaningful. Naturally they aren't, because that isn't what the source study was trying to ascertain.

Good point, although the people who are subject to the vast numbers of searches required to create such stats won’t care (for obvious reasons), you are right that the people who write these articles/studies need to be more thorough.

That being said the following should address some of your concerns with the previous study, it deals with non-moving violations which are directly related.

A Pattern of Suspicion from about 21:56 to 24:04 but watching the whole thing would give you more context on how it relates to the topic at hand.

And then in the next post you go on to talk about how statistics can be misleading.

......

I stand by what I said regarding statistics. If you think I have posted messed up stats let me know, like you just did and I’ll address it or back-pedal… lol

 

[someEEguy]

And for kicks (grain of salt here), I am in no way suggesting the following is scientific or representative but rather an anecdotal illustration of why people may be frustrated:

part 1
part 2

 

[Jaskalas]

I never said that. They are most certainly worse now, however.

Worse economy.
And social media fueling rage.

Little to nothing to do with the President. He was simply in office for a period of time in which things "around him" happened.

 

[Jhhnn]

Worse economy.
And social media fueling rage.

Little to nothing to do with the President. He was simply in office for a period of time in which things "around him" happened.

Besides that, he's black. The affront to the sensibilities of too many white people has been profound. Those most strongly affected are the least likely to admit it.

The economy isn't "worse" compared to the devastation left behind from the GWB years. It's just different, with the financial elite achieving a major victory in the top down class warfare waged since the 80's followed by an 8 year holding action by Congressional Repubs.

That should be pretty simple to understand.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Besides that, he's black. The affront to the sensibilities of too many white people has been profound. Those most strongly affected are the least likely to admit it.

The economy isn't "worse" compared to the devastation left behind from the GWB years. It's just different, with the financial elite achieving a major victory in the top down class warfare waged since the 80's followed by an 8 year holding action by Congressional Repubs.

That should be pretty simple to understand.

It's not just that he's black, he's black and competent, despite all their cries to the contrary, and that's the real affront.

 

[Painman]

Besides that, he's black. The affront to the sensibilities of too many white people has been profound. Those most strongly affected are the least likely to admit it.

The economy isn't "worse" compared to the devastation left behind from the GWB years. It's just different, with the financial elite achieving a major victory in the top down class warfare waged since the 80's followed by an 8 year holding action by Congressional Repubs.

That should be pretty simple to understand.

The only "simple" thing to understand, "Jhhnn", is that YOU are a racist, and probably a fucking sociopath.

You don't give a FUCK about the devastation of lower classes apart from your ability to feign empathy for one segment of them over another.

You're a Champagne fucking Soclialist.

Excessive use of the 'f' word in one reply, even for P&N.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[thraashman]

The answer to the OP's question is a simple one, white conservatives resent letting minorities have the same rights they themselves already enjoy. Period. And every one of those white conservatives is aware this is the reason, but they're not quite dumb enough to state that openly. Well ... most of them aren't.