Why firefox sucks

[Terumo]

Originally posted by: UnixFreak
Here is an article I wrote about why firefox sucks. I don't want to post all the text in here, so here's the link

Why firefox sucks


Looking back, I should title it "why firefox users suck" but oh well. What are your thoughts? Am I wrong about this?

Thank you for that piece. There's too much hype out there about hardware, software and even browsers. Often the hype is just hype.

IE has about 90% of the browser market. It's gotten to now web designers say, "forget this crap, I'm designing for IE for now on!" (yes, you can imagine the roar from purists who must not have a life other than complaining about IE and saying so. It doesn't help that the top web design gurus are on NS's staff, to breed another generation of IE sux complainers). And those who finally stop slaving over multi-browser code are right, as 90% of the hits are from IE. Spending all that extra time to make it look right in 8 or so different browsers IS insane, especially when 10 out of 100 or 1000 out of 10000 use another browser. Dollars and sense dictates, enough is enough -- use the product that has the market saturation.

Now can we work to get you to like Windows XP.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: UnixFreak
Here is an article I wrote about why firefox sucks. I don't want to post all the text in here, so here's the link

Why firefox sucks


Looking back, I should title it "why firefox users suck" but oh well. What are your thoughts? Am I wrong about this?

Thank you for that piece. There's too much hype out there about hardware, software and even browsers. Often the hype is just hype.

IE has about 90% of the browser market. It's gotten to now web designers say, "forget this crap, I'm designing for IE for now on!" (yes, you can imagine the roar from purists who must not have a life other than complaining about IE and saying so. It doesn't help that the top web design gurus are on NS's staff, to breed another generation of IE sux complainers). And those who finally stop slaving over multi-browser code are right, as 90% of the hits are from IE. Spending all that extra time to make it look right in 8 or so different browsers IS insane, especially when 10 out of 100 or 1000 out of 10000 use another browser. Dollars and sense dictates, enough is enough -- use the product that has the market saturation.

Now can we work to get you to like Windows XP.

Standards are there for a reason(several reasons actually, but one of them is to help out the end users, even the ungrateful ones like you).
Code to standards, and it will work on any browser that supports them.
Besides, I don't know where on Microsofts site I would find the latest IE for Linux/Solaris/BSD even if I wanted to use it.

 

[grrl]

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: UnixFreak
Here is an article I wrote about why firefox sucks. I don't want to post all the text in here, so here's the link

Why firefox sucks


Looking back, I should title it "why firefox users suck" but oh well. What are your thoughts? Am I wrong about this?

Thank you for that piece. There's too much hype out there about hardware, software and even browsers. Often the hype is just hype.

IE has about 90% of the browser market. It's gotten to now web designers say, "forget this crap, I'm designing for IE for now on!" (yes, you can imagine the roar from purists who must not have a life other than complaining about IE and saying so. It doesn't help that the top web design gurus are on NS's staff, to breed another generation of IE sux complainers). And those who finally stop slaving over multi-browser code are right, as 90% of the hits are from IE. Spending all that extra time to make it look right in 8 or so different browsers IS insane, especially when 10 out of 100 or 1000 out of 10000 use another browser. Dollars and sense dictates, enough is enough -- use the product that has the market saturation.

Now can we work to get you to like Windows XP.

154 posts in just a few days. And he's talking about people who don't have a life.

 

[Terumo]

Did you lose your penis, grrl? If so, go grope a man to find another.

 

[Terumo]

Originally posted by: Sunner
Standards are there for a reason(several reasons actually, but one of them is to help out the end users, even the ungrateful ones like you).
Code to standards, and it will work on any browser that supports them.
Besides, I don't know where on Microsofts site I would find the latest IE for Linux/Solaris/BSD even if I wanted to use it.

What standards? The NS branch? It has proprietary code as well that's not W3D compliant. So you're chasing your tail trying to hype that one.

There isn't any code standards. W3D only made suggestions (although now it's trying to put it's foot down) and trying to move everything to XML, but that's years from now. Until then we have to do with what we have. My code passes W3D and looks wonderful in IE (quark and non quark mode).

Ungrateful, no. I'm no lemming, and I like Occam's Razor.

<I love Nomex>

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: Sunner
Standards are there for a reason(several reasons actually, but one of them is to help out the end users, even the ungrateful ones like you).
Code to standards, and it will work on any browser that supports them.
Besides, I don't know where on Microsofts site I would find the latest IE for Linux/Solaris/BSD even if I wanted to use it.

What standards? The NS branch? It has proprietary code as well that's not W3D compliant. So you're chasing your tail trying to hype that one.

There isn't any code standards. W3D only made suggestions (although now it's trying to put it's foot down) and trying to move everything to XML, but that's years from now. Until then we have to do with what we have. My code passes W3D and looks wonderful in IE (quark and non quark mode).

Ungrateful, no. I'm no lemming, and I like Occam's Razor.

<I love Nomex>

Do you mean the W3C by any chance?
And yes, there are standards, and as has been proven by UnixFreak, IE doesn't follow some of them, namely CSS.

 

[Terumo]

The standards aren't accepted across all browsers = there's no standard. When each browser went onto proprietary code, that ended it. We're still making web pages for 800x600 for freaking NS4, and that's simply crazy. 30px waste of real estate just to support a DEAD browser.

I'll stick with IE, 90% of the web hits, is enough to do away with all the other crazy coding. Freaking spent 3 days trying to get Opera to view CSS colored buttons when the rest worked fine -- and it still looked funky.

Thank you for the correction, W3C (god I'm been working on 3D too much!!).

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Terumo
The standards aren't accepted across all browsers = there's no standard. When each browser went onto proprietary code, that ended it. We're still making web pages for 800x600 for freaking NS4, and that's simply crazy. 30px waste of real estate just to support a DEAD browser.

I'll stick with IE, 90% of the web hits, is enough to do away with all the other crazy coding. Freaking spent 3 days trying to get Opera to view CSS colored buttons when the rest worked fine -- and it still looked funky.

Thank you for the correction, W3C (god I'm been working on 3D too much!!).

I agree that supporting NS4.x is silly, there comes a point when it's time to just cut the crap loose.
However, following W3C standards rather than browser specific "standards"(of course the word standard by definition makes this an oxymoron) will allow sites to work with different browsers.
This doesn't seem to be a problem with most sites, even my online bank works just fine with Mozilla.

In fact, with the exception of some site whose name I can't even remember anymore, I don't have any problems with neither Konqueror nor Mozilla/Firefox these days.

Morons like UnixFreak are part of the problem, but luckily people like him are reasonably rare.

By the way, do you know of any proprietary "standards" that Mozilla has invented? Or Konqueror?
I won't say anything about Opera since I don't use it.

 

[bhanson]

Originally posted by: Terumo

Originally posted by: UnixFreak
Here is an article I wrote about why firefox sucks. I don't want to post all the text in here, so here's the link

Why firefox sucks


Looking back, I should title it "why firefox users suck" but oh well. What are your thoughts? Am I wrong about this?

Thank you for that piece. There's too much hype out there about hardware, software and even browsers. Often the hype is just hype.

IE has about 90% of the browser market. It's gotten to now web designers say, "forget this crap, I'm designing for IE for now on!" (yes, you can imagine the roar from purists who must not have a life other than complaining about IE and saying so. It doesn't help that the top web design gurus are on NS's staff, to breed another generation of IE sux complainers). And those who finally stop slaving over multi-browser code are right, as 90% of the hits are from IE. Spending all that extra time to make it look right in 8 or so different browsers IS insane, especially when 10 out of 100 or 1000 out of 10000 use another browser. Dollars and sense dictates, enough is enough -- use the product that has the market saturation.

Now can we work to get you to like Windows XP.

That is some very twisted logic. Not too long ago here in the USA the KKK was running rampant. Does that make it right sense a good amount of people were in it? Ahh just screw the equal rights, they're the minority, it doesn't matter! Honestly, that type of thinking just does not work.

There isn't any code standards. W3D only made suggestions (although now it's trying to put it's foot down) and trying to move everything to XML, but that's years from now. Until then we have to do with what we have. My code passes W3D and looks wonderful in IE (quark and non quark mode).

Years from now? It's only years from now because people do not make a conscious effort to improve. You're criticizing the work that the W3C has done, yet what have you done to help improve our internet? Code for only one browser? (And coding for Firefox/Opera/etc tends to actually be easier than IE. Mainly due to the fact it does what you tell it to. Prime example of IE not doing this is its box model, now that's just screwed up.)

 

[Terumo]

Actually coding for Foxfire isn't as easy as you think. Alignment is off (come to think of it it's off on NS/Foxfire and Opera). Almost impossible to get all those browsers to align a div properly -- consistently.

W3C only made recommendations that the browser developers ignored. It's finally getting some muscle and trying to dictate coding standards, but it all depends if the browser developers comply (and HTML editor developers -- Dreamweaver is notorious in inserting proprietary code too). And a side note for handcode purists (yes, I can handcode so drop those arrows): Notepad is nice, but building a website with a product catalogue of 50 pages, note pad doesn't do it, especially as the code gets longer and longer. I also do a lot of work with vBulletin, and there's no way in hell I'm editing 22+ pages in notepad!!

The blame isn't solely with IE (that's simple scapegoating). If blame needs to go around point fingers at every single browser for straying. Until that's done, it's just another trying-to-knock-the-king-off-the-hill BS. Not about compliance.

And in reality, there will never be compliance, because of backwards compatibility. So HTML to XHTML to XML will take a l-o-n-g time -- maybe 10 years. Meanwhile web developers need to keep their hair, not consume bottles of Motrin, and not live 15hrs a day on the computer trying to get a single div to align properly.

Occam's Razor applies, and it goes to IE (largest audience). Common sense.

 

[Chryso]

This is stupid: firefox demo link

IE is doing it wrong by centering the table when nothing is telling it to.

The name of this example should be changed to "Why IE sucks".

 

[Zebo]

IE with avantbrowser "plugin" or "front-end" gives me tabs, groups, ad blocking (sorry anand), popup block and all that cool stuff.

 

[ProviaFan]

Our IE apologist (do I sense some anti-anti-conformity here?) adamantly states that we all must code for IE instead of coding to standards. I'm very sorry, but just because he wants to be willingly ignorant (in other words, "dumb on purpose"), does not mean that he shouol be excused for trying to drag the rest of us down to his level.

His "screw the minorities" attitude works <sarcasm>really well</sarcasm>, especially when you consider that a site with loads of proprietary BS will also not be accessible to certain groups of persons with physical handicaps (gah, I guess that's the politically correct way of saying that somebody's blind) who must use specialized browsers that are much rarer than Firefox et. al.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: dwell

Originally posted by: UnixFreak
perhaps you guys should email the W3C committee and tell them how stupid they are!

Perhaps you should read the specs and explain to us how text alignment = table alignment.

http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/text.html#alignment-prop

Dude(unixfreak) it's an honest mistake just admit it and move on.. BTW chimera does'nt show centered either.

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

Last time I checked Firefox didn't run when the user is part of the 'User's' Group. (XP's limited account)

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: CaptainGoodnight
Last time I checked Firefox didn't run when the user is part of the 'User's' Group. (XP's limited account)

It works. I've done it.

 

[cquark]

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
I think people are exaggerating the spyware problem in IE. If you do certain things that you should be doing regardless of your browser, you should be fine.

Unfortunately, that's not true. IE has many security holes that allow spyware to infect Windows machine without the user having to do anything but visit the site. Microsoft has patched several holes this past year, but there are always a dozen or so unpatched known security flaws at any given time.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: cquark

Originally posted by: ArmchairAthlete
I think people are exaggerating the spyware problem in IE. If you do certain things that you should be doing regardless of your browser, you should be fine.

Unfortunately, that's not true. IE has many security holes that allow spyware to infect Windows machine without the user having to do anything but visit the site. Microsoft has patched several holes this past year, but there are always a dozen or so unpatched known security flaws at any given time.

Spyware has now become the #1 security industry concern, overtaking Spam's top spot. Spam use to be just a nuisance that got installed with webshots or imesh, but it was all legal because in their license agreement it said it would install 3rd party software. But now spyware is being installed through exploits. I've been able to track down sources of spyware from sites that were seemingly harmless. Sometimes even the webmaster doesn't know their site is installing it, while they use some other free tool *ahem*comet cursor*ahem*.

 

[jamesbond007]

Originally posted by: mobobuff

Originally posted by: Deeko
Firefox sucks. Just admit it. You use it to be 'geek cool'. I have no problems with spyware or any of that with IE. And my pages render properly and quickly. Fvck firefox.

Extended and agreed.

 

[SagaLore]

<--- click here

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
If Firefox is so bad, what browser should I be using?

opera

Opera does not fufill my requirements. Mozilla and Firefox do. Any more suggestions?

what are your requirements?

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
If Firefox is so bad, what browser should I be using?

opera

Opera does not fufill my requirements. Mozilla and Firefox do. Any more suggestions?

what are your requirements?

I don't know about n0c's requirements, but mine are that it be Free and Open Source.

BTW, does Opera run on BSD, and/or non-Intel architectures? That could be another reason.

 

[JustAnAverageGuy]

Originally posted by: ProviaFan
I don't know about n0c's requirements, but mine are that it be Free and Open Source.

BTW, does Opera run on BSD, and/or non-Intel architectures? That could be another reason.

It IS free. Why is open source a requirement?

It runs on these operating systems as well.

Windows
Solaris Sparc
QNX
OS/2
MacOS
Linux Sparc
Linux PowerPC
Linux i386
FreeBSD i386
BeOS

So, It is, why? and it does.

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: JustAnAverageGuy

Originally posted by: ProviaFan
I don't know about n0c's requirements, but mine are that it be Free and Open Source.

BTW, does Opera run on BSD, and/or non-Intel architectures? That could be another reason.

It IS free. Why is open source a requirement?

Unless something has changed drastically, Opera is NOT free.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
If Firefox is so bad, what browser should I be using?

opera

Opera does not fufill my requirements. Mozilla and Firefox do. Any more suggestions?

what are your requirements?

That it runs on all of the platforms I use.