Why don't you carry a gun?

[rudeguy]

ok back on topic.

I don't carry gun because I have never felt the need to carry one.

That's much too logical for this thread.

 

[BoberFett]

I own quite a few guns. I've considered getting my concealed carry license. Even if I had the license, it would be extremely rare for me to actually exercise the use and carry. I can only think of a couple times in my life when I might have wanted to be carrying.

The reason I don't carry is that on the off chance I met someone from AT P&N, I would be too tempted to shoot them in the face.

 

[BoberFett]

2. if it was legal, it'd still not be necessary to carry it out of the house, mugging is rare and usually non violent

How can a mugging be non-violent? What does the mugger do if you tell him you're not giving him your wallet? Shrug his shoulders and walk away? How could anybody get mugged if there was no threat of violence?

 

[rudeguy]

How can a mugging be non-violent? What does the mugger do if you tell him you're not giving him your wallet? Shrug his shoulders and walk away? How could anybody get mugged if there was no threat of violence?

Again...please don't use logic in this thread.

 

[HumblePie]

I own quite a few guns. I've considered getting my concealed carry license. Even if I had the license, it would be extremely rare for me to actually exercise the use and carry. I can only think of a couple times in my life when I might have wanted to be carrying.

The reason I don't carry is that on the off chance I met someone from AT P&N, I would be too tempted to shoot them in the face.

This is the reason I carry guns at least in my car.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2345267

I've had something similar happen to me recently. Well with a jackass on a motor bike brake checking people on the highway and trying to cause accidents.

 

[Exophase]

I have had to pull my gun once. I parked my truck and was going through some things before meeting my gf (putting sunglasses away, ipod in glovebox type stuff). Guy starts yelling at me and swearing up a storm for no apparent reason. Starts coming towards me. Couple other people in the parking garage were just watching. I tell the guy to stay back from me but he keeps coming talking about how he is going to beat me up and all this crap. Once he hit about 20 feet the gun came out pointed at his chest. Guy still came at me another good 10 feet before finally stopping. Must have finally clicked as he turned and ran away ( high on something i am sure). Only then did one of the other guys in the garage come over to ask if i was ok. Who knows what he would have done if he got closer and i am just thankful it didnt have to go any further than that.

This happened while you were putting stuff in your truck? Couldn't you have like, gotten in your truck and closed the door? Or even drove off and called your girlfriend to explain you'll be late because there was a crazy person harassing you?

I'm too old to fight even a 6' 20 year old, even though I'm 6', and sure as hell can outrun them, but they can't outrun a .40S&W 180 grain hollow point round.

So you could run away from a threat, but you'd rather shoot someone in the back if they threatened you..

The gun in the hand of a bad guy is used to intimidate the victim into complying with his demands, and unless they are strung out on something have no intent to shoot, just intimidate.

When the victim immediately draws and fires, the bad guy still hasn't had time to react to the reality that his intended victim is armed and actively shooting. That reaction time gives the advantage to the intended victim.

The bad guy probably doesn't train with their gun either, and will be less able to place rounds where they want them. I train to put two rounds center mass, follow by two rounds to the head if needed.

Okay, so you start out by saying that the bad guy is almost definitely only using the gun to intimidate you and was not prepared to actually shoot you, but you on the other hand are fully prepared to use your gun not to neutralize the intimidation (which may backfire) but actually shoot them. Personally, I'd rather give someone my money than risk killing them.

I've never been in a situation where I felt like I needed a gun, and frankly, none of the situations in this thread are really convincing me either - unless there was a significant risk to my life (or the life of people around me) that the gun could have diminished then it's not worth it to me.

 

[HumblePie]

This happened while you were putting stuff in your truck? Couldn't you have like, gotten in your truck and closed the door? Or even drove off and called your girlfriend to explain you'll be late because there was a crazy person harassing you?



So you could run away from a threat, but you'd rather shoot someone in the back if they threatened you..



Okay, so you start out by saying that the bad guy is almost definitely only using the gun to intimidate you and was not prepared to actually shoot you, but you on the other hand are fully prepared to use your gun not to neutralize the intimidation (which may backfire) but actually shoot them. Personally, I'd rather give someone my money than risk killing them.

I've never been in a situation where I felt like I needed a gun, and frankly, none of the situations in this thread are really convincing me either - unless there was a significant risk to my life (or the life of people around me) that the gun could have diminished then it's not worth it to me.

Really? You actually asked these questions without logically thinking through them first?

As for the first question. Why should the person hide in their truck when being threatened with violence by a stranger? He doesn't know the person, what they are capable of, or what they intend. Always assume the worst and react accordingly. What if the other guy had been carrying a firearm? If velillen had jumped into his truck he may not have time or the space to pull out his firearm if the stranger had pulled out one first instead. Which could have been his death. By pulling out his gun to a person presenting a clear and credible threat, he stopped it from happening and no one got hurt.

 

[JustMe21]

Anyone ever consider wearing a concealed bulletproof jacket instead?

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bulletblocker-nij-iiia-bulletproof-farm-coat.html

 

[irishScott]

This happened while you were putting stuff in your truck? Couldn't you have like, gotten in your truck and closed the door? Or even drove off and called your girlfriend to explain you'll be late because there was a crazy person harassing you?



So you could run away from a threat, but you'd rather shoot someone in the back if they threatened you..



Okay, so you start out by saying that the bad guy is almost definitely only using the gun to intimidate you and was not prepared to actually shoot you, but you on the other hand are fully prepared to use your gun not to neutralize the intimidation (which may backfire) but actually shoot them. Personally, I'd rather give someone my money than risk killing them.

I've never been in a situation where I felt like I needed a gun, and frankly, none of the situations in this thread are really convincing me either - unless there was a significant risk to my life (or the life of people around me) that the gun could have diminished then it's not worth it to me.

Well you probably won't be convinced by this one either, but here it goes. Granted this is when I wasn't carrying, but it proves the need for a weapon.

One night a couple of years ago, I was walking back to my dorm from the library at 2:00 am. I'd done this same walk literally hundreds of times without issue. On my way back I passed 2 black stereotypes; didn't think much of them at first, but they reacted rather strangely to me. They started a bit as I overtook them (I walk fast), looked at each other, then continued to let me pass. At this point I had to take a right turn, and as there were no cars on the road I crossed the road as I did so. I saw them turn rather awkwardly to follow me, and at this point I got a little concerned. They were maybe 30-40 feet behind my at this point.

After the turn, they followed me, keeping their distance for a few more seconds, then I heard their pace spontaneously double and they started to close. So I held my pace steady, turned my head 90 degrees and made a very noticeable show of shoving my hands into my jacket pockets. They SLAMMED on the brakes and dropped back to about 60 feet, didn't bother me again.

Now I had nothing at the time (University restrictions being what they are), but the mere threat of a weapon, backed by a little confidence, and they stopped cold. Given your responses thus far, you'll probably say something like I should have ditched the backpack and run or something. All I can say is that by the time I realized they were making a play and reacted, their doubled pace had put them within 20 feet of me, and there's no guarantee they would have settled for the backpack if they thought they could add a phone and wallet to the mix. I was also pretty out of shape at the time, whereas they looked pretty lean. They could probably have outrun me.

Bottom line you can armchair general and poke holes in peoples' stories all you like, but a simple, severe threat often deescalates the violence, everyone goes home, and property is left intact. I'd say that's about the best of all possible worlds.

In addition, in the last 6 months my town has had 2 armed robberies and a shooting (into the air, thankfully) over a pick-up basketball game. Our crime rate is just around the national average too.

 

[BoberFett]

crazy, where bouts in st paul? There are some bad areas ... but I can't imagine that is common.

Are you kidding me? Never been on the east side apparently...

 

[alkemyst]

Well you probably won't be convinced by this one either, but here it goes. Granted this is when I wasn't carrying, but it proves the need for a weapon.

One night a couple of years ago, I was walking back to my dorm from the library at 2:00 am. I'd done this same walk literally hundreds of times without issue. On my way back I passed 2 black stereotypes; didn't think much of them at first, but they reacted rather strangely to me. They started a bit as I overtook them (I walk fast), looked at each other, then continued to let me pass. At this point I had to take a right turn, and as there were no cars on the road I crossed the road as I did so. I saw them turn rather awkwardly to follow me, and at this point I got a little concerned. They were maybe 30-40 feet behind my at this point.

After the turn, they followed me, keeping their distance for a few more seconds, then I heard their pace spontaneously double and they started to close. So I held my pace steady, turned my head 90 degrees and made a very noticeable show of shoving my hands into my jacket pockets. They SLAMMED on the brakes and dropped back to about 60 feet, didn't bother me again.

Now I had nothing at the time (University restrictions being what they are), but the mere threat of a weapon, backed by a little confidence, and they stopped cold. Given your responses thus far, you'll probably say something like I should have ditched the backpack and run or something. All I can say is that by the time I realized they were making a play and reacted, their doubled pace had put them within 20 feet of me, and there's no guarantee they would have settled for the backpack if they thought they could add a phone and wallet to the mix. I was also pretty out of shape at the time, whereas they looked pretty lean. They could probably have outrun me.

Bottom line you can armchair general and poke holes in peoples' stories all you like, but a simple, severe threat often deescalates the violence, everyone goes home, and property is left intact. I'd say that's about the best of all possible worlds.

In addition, in the last 6 months my town has had 2 armed robberies and a shooting (into the air, thankfully) over a pick-up basketball game. Our crime rate is just around the national average too.

Don't know what black 'stereotypes' have to do with it. Seems like they just may have been going your way or perhaps you dropped something.

Who does a 'show' by putting BOTH hands in jacket pockets?

However; regardless of gun I also carry OC spray (Fox 5.3)

 

[Bacstar]

Initially, I bought my gun for hiking & biking. Usually, I'll have it on a chest holster in plain sight. Wildlife here in Alaska tend to be large and unpredictable, so a gun can come in handy.

I tried carrying it around concealed a few times around town. Just never felt comfortable with it, and I was always worried that it was showing. I just make a point of avoiding unsafe areas or dangerous situations like visiting ATM machines late at night, and if I'm ever downtown, I'm bar hopping or going to a restaurant where I may not be allowed to carry since I'll be having a few drinks.

 

[rudeguy]

Anyone ever consider wearing a concealed bulletproof jacket instead?

http://www.bulletblocker.com/bulletblocker-nij-iiia-bulletproof-farm-coat.html

Doesn't carry enough rounds for my liking

 

[Meghan54]

well...not everyone can live in the middle of nowhere

Possibly you didn't realize that photo was just to show what the exterior of the house looked like from the front....that's all.

I didn't realize I lived in the "middle of nowhere":
(House circled in red)

A little closer in:

Now, going southwest, which is directly "down and left" in the photo, there's the sheriff's dept. about 1 mile or so from the house. Town center is about 1.5 miles from the house. Wouldn't call it the middle of nowhere. (The Farm Bureau in the photo above is now a public library, an Ingles grocery store sits next to the post office---just got cut off.)

But we've lived in that situation. Keep a shotgun near the back/side door, as usual, but for snakes mostly. We still use the dogs as first line deterrent for trouble. And in all our years, still works. No one gets out of their car if the dogs are out, unless you have a death wish....or we call the dogs off.

But, again, never felt the need to carry a pistol around on a daily basis. Just don't live my life in a way that exposes me to that sort of threat.

 

[Exophase]

Really? You actually asked these questions without logically thinking through them first?

As for the first question. Why should the person hide in their truck when being threatened with violence by a stranger? He doesn't know the person, what they are capable of, or what they intend. Always assume the worst and react accordingly. What if the other guy had been carrying a firearm? If velillen had jumped into his truck he may not have time or the space to pull out his firearm if the stranger had pulled out one first instead. Which could have been his death. By pulling out his gun to a person presenting a clear and credible threat, he stopped it from happening and no one got hurt.

Always assume the worst and react accordingly. Right. That's not what I consider "logically thinking through" anything. In fact, always assuming the worst sounds pretty stupid to me, because the worst is always going to be pretty bad - instead you should make some kind of reasonable assessment about the likelihood of risks and what impact your responses would have had. The guy was TWENTY FEET away when he pulled out his gun. He would have had plenty of time to get in his truck and, like I said, leave.

He's the real meat of your response "why should a person hide or run away when threatened." It's really about ego, not safety.

 

[alkemyst]

He's the real meat of your response "why should a person hide or run away when threatened." It's really about ego, not safety.

Not exactly, if I know I have been threatened and have my chance for reaction I will do so. Running away or trying to hide may have that person catching me with my guard down prior to getting to safety.

Not to mention if I am being directly targeted and it wasn't a random event.

 

[irishScott]

Always assume the worst and react accordingly. Right. That's not what I consider "logically thinking through" anything. In fact, always assuming the worst sounds pretty stupid to me, because the worst is always going to be pretty bad - instead you should make some kind of reasonable assessment about the likelihood of risks and what impact your responses would have had. The guy was TWENTY FEET away when he pulled out his gun. He would have had plenty of time to get in his truck and, like I said, leave.

He's the real meat of your response "why should a person hide or run away when threatened." It's really about ego, not safety.

Lol, go get a tape measure and put it out to 20 feet (remember we're talking feet, not yards or meters). Then see how long it takes you to walk it. If someone is within 20 feet there is nowhere near enough time to get in a vehicle, start it and leave before someone can cross that distance.

 

[rudeguy]

Lol, go get a tape measure and put it out to 20 feet (remember we're talking feet, not yards or meters). Then see how long it takes you to walk it. If someone is within 20 feet there is nowhere near enough time to get in a vehicle, start it and leave before someone can cross that distance.

You are just a blood thirsty thug. If you really wanted to, you could have sprouted fairy wings and flew away

 

[Exophase]

Lol, go get a tape measure and put it out to 20 feet (remember we're talking feet, not yards or meters). Then see how long it takes you to walk it. If someone is within 20 feet there is nowhere near enough time to get in a vehicle, start it and leave before someone can cross that distance.

Whatever, 20 feet is a lot more further than the guy should have been from his car if he was putting stuff away in it (not sure how he wasn't already in his car). The only way this guy is an IMMEDIATE threat once he RUNS up to your car (by the description he wasn't running...) is if he himself has a gun and can shoot you through the window. And if he's some stranger who wants to shoot you for no reason then he probably wouldn't be scared off by your gun.

And it was 20 feet before the gun was pulled. He didn't even start out that close before appearing threatening.

Not exactly, if I know I have been threatened and have my chance for reaction I will do so. Running away or trying to hide may have that person catching me with my guard down prior to getting to safety.

Not to mention if I am being directly targeted and it wasn't a random event.

I'm not speaking for everyone here. Sometimes running or hiding isn't going to make the most sense. But I get the distinct impression that some people are going to choose not to do that because of their pride, not because it's the safest thing to do.

If I were actually being targeted by someone I knew was trying to kill me, that would be a situation where I would strongly consider carrying a gun. But that's kind of an unusual thing...

 

[IronWing]

Possibly you didn't realize that photo was just to show what the exterior of the house looked like from the front....that's all.

I didn't realize I lived in the "middle of nowhere":
(House circled in red)

A little closer in:

Now, going southwest, which is directly "down and left" in the photo, there's the sheriff's dept. about 1 mile or so from the house. Town center is about 1.5 miles from the house. Wouldn't call it the middle of nowhere. (The Farm Bureau in the photo above is now a public library, an Ingles grocery store sits next to the post office---just got cut off.)

But we've lived in that situation. Keep a shotgun near the back/side door, as usual, but for snakes mostly. We still use the dogs as first line deterrent for trouble. And in all our years, still works. No one gets out of their car if the dogs are out, unless you have a death wish....or we call the dogs off.

But, again, never felt the need to carry a pistol around on a daily basis. Just don't live my life in a way that exposes me to that sort of threat.

Sweet Baby Jesus with a sippy cup of wine! If I was trapped between the Church o' Christ and the Farm Bureau, I'd be armed to the teeth. You just can't trust farmers or Christians! One way or another they'd be selling you insurance.

 

[irishScott]

Whatever, 20 feet is a lot more further than the guy should have been from his car if he was putting stuff away in it (not sure how he wasn't already in his car). The only way this guy is an IMMEDIATE threat once he RUNS up to your car (by the description he wasn't running...) is if he himself has a gun and can shoot you through the window. And if he's some stranger who wants to shoot you for no reason then he probably wouldn't be scared off by your gun.

And it was 20 feet before the gun was pulled. He didn't even start out that close before appearing threatening.

Well Velillen said it appeared he was high on something. So say you shut the door, and he comes up and starts banging on the window, still talking about how he's going to beat you up. What do you do then? Run him over? Let him trash your car until the cops arrive then take his too-broke-to-pay-damages ass to court? That and you never know what people have in their pockets.

Against a blatant physical threat with no option to avoid (not retreat, avoid), a superior physical threat is often the best solution IMO.

You should also know that every self defense law I've ever heard of (in the US anyway) says 21 feet is the maximum distance that can be considered self defense.

 

[Exophase]

Well Velillen said it appeared he was high on something. So say you shut the door, and he comes up and starts banging on the window, still talking about how he's going to beat you up. What do you do then? Run him over? Let him trash your car until the cops arrive then take his too-broke-to-pay-damages ass to court? That and you never know what people have in their pockets.

Against a blatant physical threat with no option to avoid (not retreat, avoid), a superior physical threat is often the best solution IMO.

If you're in your car and the window's up and he's banging on it he's going to be to the side of the car. You start to move (either pulling out or moving forward), how exactly is that going to run him over? If he's coherent enough to back off when he sees a gun I'm pretty sure he's going to be coherent enough to back out of the way of a moving vehicle...

You really sound like you're manufacturing something bizarre to justify your stance, but I guess that's the whole point of assuming the worst right?

You should also know that every self defense law I've ever heard of (in the US anyway) says 21 feet is the maximum distance that can be considered self defense.

How convenient. So I guess he had to wait for the guy to be within 20 feet before he pulled the gun. Good thing there's no law saying when he could have started getting in his car.

 

[waggy]

Sweet Baby Jesus with a sippy cup of wine! If I was trapped between the Church o' Christ and the Farm Bureau, I'd be armed to the teeth. You just can't trust farmers or Christians! One way or another they'd be selling you insurance.

I take offense at that. There is nothing wrong with farmer...ohhh i get it! :awe:

 

[rudeguy]

Here are my two pennies and then I'll stop.

I carry a gun. I took CPR and first aid classes. I have a fire escape plan for my house.

Hopefully I will never need to use these things but I feel safer knowing I have them. I don't look down on people who don't, but I will damn sure show you the error of your ways if you look down on me for doing so.

And don't worry next time you are at a gas station and the guy with baggy pants starts looking at the cameras and getting shifty.

I got your back

 

[Exophase]

but I will damn sure show you the error of your ways if you look down on me for doing so.

What does that mean exactly? If I look down on you you're going to get back at me somehow? Or are you saying you'll conjure up a scenario to prove your gun was necessary?

Personally, I don't look down on people just for carrying a gun. It's on them to use it responsibly, and I'm not going to assume that someone won't without knowing anything else about them. I just don't personally don't see their reasoning applying to how I feel about anything, and the scenarios I've seen in this thread were not enough to convince me to get a gun. But hey, if it gives you peace of mind who really cares why?