Why does the Obama campaign keep harping after Mitt's tax returns?

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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John McCain was saying that the fundamentals of the economy were sound, remember? Along with every right wing pundit in America.

McCain did not win the Presidency. You should have known that without me telling you. However, if you wish to pretend he did for the purpose of discussion, we can do that. Presiden McCain is right, the fundamentals of the economy, being the American Worker, are still sound. There are still plenty of American Workers who are willing to work hard and do quality work. It saddens me you disagree with him.

You failed to address the most pertinent part of my post, for obvious reasons. Here it is again-

I did address it, but in another of your posts. Then he should not have opened his mouth and said he could fix it.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Your persistent use of "loonie" is hilarious to me. I've never encountered a person who is so fixated on using a word he doesn't know how to spell. You're a peach.


He has no choice. He cannot ever admit he is wrong about anything. He first misspelled it out of ignorance. You pointed it out for him, but that leaves him with a quandary. If he changes now, it will be admitting he made an error. Even worse, it means you "won" that point. That is unacceptable to his ego, so he must dig in his heels, continue the error, and pretend that's what he intended all along. Interestingly, this is exactly the behavior Moonbeam has been describing.

:D I am still finding success with bothering you both with the spelling. Especially Vito, as you keep bringing it up. It really slips under your skin and nags at you each time you see it. :D "grrr...that cybrsage is using the spelling loonie over and over and it is driving me more crazy than I already am!!!"

:D

Loonie people are often bothered by the simpliest of things.


As for being unable to admit I am wrong about things, that is a lie. I realize you will never admit it, because you were actually projecting your own failings onto others, but I can prove it is a lie very easily.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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:D I am still finding success with bothering you both with the spelling. Especially Vito, as you keep bringing it up. It really slips under your skin and nags at you each time you see it. :D "grrr...that cybrsage is using the spelling loonie over and over and it is driving me more crazy than I already am!!!"

:D

Loonie people are often bothered by the simpliest of things.


As for being unable to admit I am wrong about things, that is a lie. I realize you will never admit it, because you were actually projecting your own failings onto others, but I can prove it is a lie very easily.

You've essentially just proved Bowfinger's point. You obviously didn't know how to spell the word until I pointed it out, and now you're doubling down on it because you want to "win." You're really an infantile person. I do find you irritating, but mostly just sad. People in your life must find you completely infuriating. Constantly needing to prove you're right and have the last word seems like a really pathetic existence, and a phase most people work through by age 13 or so. I assume you must work in IT or some other field where you don't deal often with people - there are not many other career paths for someone with your sort of mentality.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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:D I did not realize using LOONIE bothered you SO MUCH! This is great! I knew it bothered you some, since you kept whining about it, but did not realize just how deep its use cut into your black soul. Keep it up, please. Keep showing how badly you are bothered.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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And then for home prices, Obama came in and signed an executive order to lower all the pricing right? Mmmm let's see... looks like Obama stopped a jump off a cliff that Bush shoved home prices over.
united_states.png


We good on graphs now? OK good, now STFU with your republican propaganda bullshit.
'Is that one of those pictures you have to cross your eyes at and stare at for 10 minutes before you see Bush's fault in there?
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
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There is without question something so egregious and derailing to Romney's campaign hidden in those returns that we will never see the truth.

This will dog him to the end, and believe me it will become a MAJOR problem for him as we close in to the debates. Obama literally can just sit there and hammer him on this over and over and over again. And he will.

And he will win resoundingly. This will drum up Romney's negatives so high he has no shot of carrying Independents.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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There is without question something so egregious and derailing to Romney's campaign hidden in those returns that we will never see the truth.

Haven't you loonie birthers...er, loonie returners (sorry, you guys are so much alike I keep getting the two groups mixed up - my bad) had your fill of conspiracy theories yet?
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
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'Is that one of those pictures you have to cross your eyes at and stare at for 10 minutes before you see Bush's fault in there?

Was the original picture that I quoted one of those pictures that if you cross your eyes and stare at for 10 minute, your brain explodes from all the bullshit propaganda it has?

I love how to you the giant housing plunge under Bush wasn't his fault, but the housing crisis Obama inherited is his fault :confused:
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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Was the original picture that I quoted one of those pictures that if you cross your eyes and stare at for 10 minute, your brain explodes from all the bullshit propaganda it has?

I love how to you the giant housing plunge under Bush wasn't his fault, but the housing crisis Obama inherited is his fault :confused:

It is actually neith of thier faults but I am curious as to how you think it is Bush's?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
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Haven't you loonie birthers...er, loonie returners (sorry, you guys are so much alike I keep getting the two groups mixed up - my bad) had your fill of conspiracy theories yet?
Well golly, but simply repeating the same false equivalency enough times, you've officially made it true! Birthers really are exactly the same as people who want a presidential candidate to release a few years of his tax returns when campaigning about taxes! Well done!
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
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Yeah he's beating a very strange drum. I guess its the only way to defend Romney's decision.

5$ says he took the offshore amnesty thing.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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Yeah he's beating a very strange drum. I guess its the only way to defend Romney's decision.

5$ says he took the offshore amnesty thing.

That does indeed seem to make sense. His campaign will be essentially finished if Anonymous or Wikileaks manages to lay their hands on documentation of that.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
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Well golly, but simply repeating the same false equivalency enough times, you've officially made it true! Birthers really are exactly the same as people who want a presidential candidate to release a few years of his tax returns when campaigning about taxes! Well done!

I realize you invent positions and claim others hold them, then attack them, to be able to claim victory, but it only works if you are not caught doing it.

You have been caught, victory claim nullified.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
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Yeah he's beating a very strange drum. I guess its the only way to defend Romney's decision.

5$ says he took the offshore amnesty thing.

That does indeed seem to make sense. His campaign will be essentially finished if Anonymous or Wikileaks manages to lay their hands on documentation of that.

The going loonie returner view that you guys are mindlessly repeating has obviuosly now shifted to "Cause he is following a portion of the tax law that I also follow, but since I do not use that portion I am mad he followed the law." Jhhnn is using the same loonie reason in another thread.

Good job, you all got the memo! :D
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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The going loonie returner view that you guys are mindlessly repeating has obviuosly now shifted to "Cause he is following a portion of the tax law that I also follow, but since I do not use that portion I am mad he followed the law." Jhhnn is using the same loonie reason in another thread.

Good job, you all got the memo! :D

Utterly dishonest- no surprises in that.

So, uhh, taking tax amnesty for prior felonious behavior is exactly the same thing as paying your taxes all along...

Just a teensy bit of false equivalency in that...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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I did address it, but in another of your posts. Then he should not have opened his mouth and said he could fix it.

I can't seem to find that. Perhaps you'd quote yourself.

This was my statement-

There are no economic miracles in the aftermath of an enormous credit bubble- just a lot of deleveraging, lack of demand, liquidity trap, even a deflationary spiral were it not for action by the Fed & the Treasury.

Maybe the third time will be the charm...
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,587
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The going loonie returner view that you guys are mindlessly repeating has obviuosly now shifted to "Cause he is following a portion of the tax law that I also follow, but since I do not use that portion I am mad he followed the law." Jhhnn is using the same loonie reason in another thread.

Good job, you all got the memo! :D

Is this the best you can do? Ad hominem plus material fallacy?

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/07/where-are-romneys-tax-returns.html

Another "loonie returner".
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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It's astounding the GOP thought they could nominate Romney with such question marks regarding his tax returns.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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It's simple.

Governor Romney made his experience with Bain Capital a big selling point during the primaries.

The tax records would only help Governor Romney prove that point....

oh wai...

As I've pointed out before, his tax returns will tell you little-to-nothing about Bain Capital or its performance.

Those of you who own stock, would reviewing your tax returns tell anyone anything about that company? Of course not. Likewise for Romney and Bain Capital.

A CEO's tax return doesn't tell anyone anything of significance about the company (s)he runs. The SEC requires a ton of disclosure about companies who publicly sell stock. If the SEC felt the tax return of the CEO would be informative they'd likely ask it to be disclosed.

If anyone is sincerely interested in Bain Capital's performance they would want to look at it's tax returns. There is also likely ample information about Bain's performance already out there, e.g., the steel company and Staples. Some of their better success and spectacular failures are likely used as cases studies in business schools around the country.

This purported 'reason' to verify Romney's experience with Bain Capital has no merit.

Fern
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
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A few questions:

- what is the difference between civil and criminal tax fraud?

- what is the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance?



What I've either read or seen on tv previously (I forgot which one) is that Romney is in some grey market tax shelters that are of questionable legality, even by the norms of super rich.


edit: found this http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/tax-avoidance-vs-tax-evasion#axzz23wqxqPia (sounds like Romney took full advantage of tax avoidance and tax deferment) I believe Romney told Brian Williams that he has already been audited, so whether he felt entitled to Son of Boss (http://www.son-of-boss.com/SOB_Diagrams/Briefcase_diagram.pdfhttp://www.son-of-boss.com/Son_of_Boss_Diagrams.html) too, I guess we'll have to wait and see...
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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It's astounding the GOP thought they could nominate Romney with such question marks regarding his tax returns.

Who is this "GOP" you speak of?

If it's the actual voters who nominated him it raises a question: Do the registered Republican voters give a d@mn about seeing even more of Romney's tax returns? More interesting I think would be what do swing voters think. IDK, perhaps there's a poll out there some where.

I don't think Democrat voters matter at all, they weren't going to vote for Romney anyway.

Fern
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Sorry, but that's lame excuse-making. All you're doing is saying that you're willing to engage in deliberate propagandizing because other people do it also.

Nope. I'm quite able to understand a thing without accepting it as desirable. More than that I also recognize that people generally aren't interested in facts. It's all about attacking one side to defend yours.

I realize that you aren't interested in a serious discussion as you believe it's pointless, but let's go back to Bush and the economy. To do that we have to go back at least one more President, and that's to Clinton. Clinton didn't make a great economy, but he was smart enough to get the heck out of the way and let it happen. The tech bubble grew the economy with virtually no down side. Unlike housing people didn't have to assume large debt to make it happen.

Well the tech bubble eventually burst as they all do and that left Bush with an economy with no place to go. That wasn't his fault. What was is the involvement of the US in Iraq which siphoned off money from the economy. That can be laid directly at the feet of his administration, but again only one component. I don't see that being brought up in discussions do you? It's neither a condemnation or an apologist statement. It's what it was. Likewise Obama has done some positive things. GM survives and people are employed instead of collecting unemployment. What is missing is all this is that the key economic problem is that too many people do not have quality jobs, where long term employment and pay is likely. So we have a stimulus. Great. What happens when that money runs out? Another one?

Better than all that would be legislation giving a greater proportion of control to smaller shareholders of corporations instead of few controlling all, and those few in situations where they benefit of the lack of accountability in board rooms. I think Obama talked about that a little bit once. Then there's the real elephant in the room, outsourcing, which is fueled by the fact that overseas labor is cheap and so are the goods compared to American products. What changes in trade do you see either candidate seriously proposing? What legislation do you see to keep long term employment here besides a stimulus? What about targeted tax incentives for corporation who meet criteria which provide such jobs? You want a break? Hire people here.

So yeah, one could say that not screwing things up further is better than making things worse, but when that's the gold standard we're screwed anyway. Does that mean I endorse Romney/Ryan and their economic plan? No, I'd rather have a stimulus because while I haven't a problem with changing the regs to reduce taxation on business I do not want to just toss the keys to the candy store to them. The incentive there will be as always to maximize profit and make the next quarter's results look good. We are a ninety day economy. Meet the market expectations and everything else be damned. Hell of a way to run things, but there it is. Take the tax savings and use them to hire more offshore labor. No, I'll pass because that's a given disaster in the making.

So while you are unhappy with Romney/Ryan as I am I'm not so accepting of the mediocre for what must be political expediency. It's not like we have a chance at good leadership since there being only two effective choices we'll have to take what one or the other give us. I don't have to like it.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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As I've pointed out before, his tax returns will tell you little-to-nothing about Bain Capital or its performance.

Those of you who own stock, would reviewing your tax returns tell anyone anything about that company? Of course not. Likewise for Romney and Bain Capital.

A CEO's tax return doesn't tell anyone anything of significance about the company (s)he runs. The SEC requires a ton of disclosure about companies who publicly sell stock. If the SEC felt the tax return of the CEO would be informative they'd likely ask it to be disclosed.

If anyone is sincerely interested in Bain Capital's performance they would want to look at it's tax returns. There is also likely ample information about Bain's performance already out there, e.g., the steel company and Staples. Some of their better success and spectacular failures are likely used as cases studies in business schools around the country.

This purported 'reason' to verify Romney's experience with Bain Capital has no merit.

Fern

It's not about Bain. It's about Romney's personal integrity as it relates to being qualified to be President.

Tax avoidance is achieved through a variety of mechanisms, most of which are available only to the rich, many of which are questionable. Ownership of undeclared offshore bank accounts is completely illegal, and has been for decades. That's what the 2009 tax amnesty was all about.

That's how McCain can honestly say he saw nothing in Romney's returns up through 2007 that was dishonest, because undeclared foreign tax haven accounts obviously wouldn't be included. They'd be invisible. And that's also how Romney could say that he's paid all the taxes required by law, if he took the 2009 amnesty.

Does a guy who professes to "Believe in America" *ever* have undeclared offshore bank accounts?

Only if he's lying.

That's the crux of the matter, and no amount of dodging changes that.