Why does the Obama campaign keep harping after Mitt's tax returns?

[Rangoric]

Why did they include things that increased in price? Do people think that prices stay static? And using the price of Gas during the summer in the US? Really? How about that "College Tuition went up 25%". Yeah that value's been going up steadily on it's own for decades, same with health care.

Aside from the chart being useless (trend lines > absolute values) I get the sense that whoever made it should be ignored because they've decided to try and deceive instead of actually present valid arguments.

 

[Bowfinger]

Why did they include things that increased in price? Do people think that prices stay static? And using the price of Gas during the summer in the US? Really? How about that "College Tuition went up 25%". Yeah that value's been going up steadily on it's own for decades, same with health care.

Aside from the chart being useless (trend lines > absolute values) I get the sense that whoever made it should be ignored because they've decided to try and deceive instead of actually present valid arguments.

Yes, it is absolutely intended to deceive. It is campaign propaganda, and can be dismissed as such.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

He has no choice. He cannot ever admit he is wrong about anything. He first misspelled it out of ignorance. You pointed it out for him, but that leaves him with a quandary. If he changes now, it will be admitting he made an error. Even worse, it means you "won" that point. That is unacceptable to his ego, so he must dig in his heels, continue the error, and pretend that's what he intended all along. Interestingly, this is exactly the behavior Moonbeam has been describing.

So it would appear. It's an interesting character study.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Kind of like Romney, he has the CEO mentality. He wants to appeal to everyone and his decision to not release tax info is correct to him and he won't consider any other opinions.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

It is because of this:

Image removing blame from Bush and his buddies in Government Goldman for the crash they caused, mysteriously, right before he left office

Thanks for reminding me to login so I can add your idiocy to ignore.

 

[shira]

So it would appear. It's an interesting character study.

Cybrsage is much worse than a character. I suspect that he has some sort of personality disorder. He's a deeply disturbed individual.

 

[Dulanic]

It is because of this:

Let's put some of that republican propaganda into perspective here..

Unemployment... mmm look at that trend from Bush that Obama stopped and turned around...
but but but the stimulus package did nothing omg bail outs!

Gas prices... yeah all obama's fault right? Yeah sure Note: It was HIGHER under bush until the economy collapsed.

OK let's move on to college tuition... prices only started going up under Obama right? Yup, sure looks that way....

Same with health care? Mmmm yeah.. sure....

And then for home prices, Obama came in and signed an executive order to lower all the pricing right? Mmmm let's see... looks like Obama stopped a jump off a cliff that Bush shoved home prices over.

We good on graphs now? OK good, now STFU with your republican propaganda bullshit.

 

[PJABBER]

We good on graphs now? OK good, now STFU with your republican propaganda bullshit.

Sad little boy, let me pose a simple question that was also asked a few short years ago...

Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

D:

 

[Dulanic]

Sad little boy, let me pose a simple question that was also asked a few short years ago...

Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

D:

Yes, much. Thank you for asking.

Let's take a look at my investments alone....Thanks Bush for driving it off a cliff though right? Oh wait, we can't blame bush for the past and the 10s of thousands I lost in my investments right?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Americans have short memories. They forget that in January 2009 people were worried about us falling into a new depression.

Now they whine because the recovery has been too slow. As a pundit quipped, the complaints boil down to trying to convince people to vote Obama out because he didn't clean up the Republicans' mess fast enough.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hayabusa, you do understand that the economy is like a cruise ship, not a speedboat? It doesn't turn on a dime.

Measuring statistics from the day of inauguration is inherently misleading, and especially so in the case of Obama because of the chart shown in post #30 -- when he was sworn in, the US economy was in the middle of the big drop on a roller coaster.

I'm aware that it's set up with a particular bias, however every President gets tagged for the economy for good or ill. Since that had been consistently applief passing it off as everyone elses fault really does not work if one insists on tarring others at the same time. Well it will if supporters yell loudly enough to keep the general public from focusing on issues, which both sides do. Platitudes. Promises of bread and circuses.

Now if you'd like to engage in a dialogue with a larger context with less emphasis on personalities and more on cause and effect in modern times I'd be thrilled. Theres not much of that these days.

 

[Bowfinger]

Sad little boy, let me pose a simple question that was also asked a few short years ago...

Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

D:

Simple questions are for simple minds. Intelligent people understand bumper stickers are not a substitute for critical thought.

Edit: For the record, Dulanic quite effectively refuted your partisan propaganda.

 

[OrByte]

we need to figure out a way to sticky PJABBERS propoganda piece and Dulanics reply..

the clear difference between republican truthiness and Democratic FACT

nice post Dulanic.

OH and PJABBER, that unemployment statistic on your chart is wrong...the math is wrong. you might want to check it. the change is not 9%

...that could be interpreted as a lie...but we know you dont do that

On topic, I wonder if Paul Ryan gave Mitt more than 2 years tax returns to vett?

 

[PJABBER]

Simple questions are for simple minds. Intelligent people understand bumper stickers are not a substitute for critical thought.

I can both agree and disagree with you on this.

We do live in a world of complexity, but we are both attracted and repelled by it.

On the one hand, the detail is so lovely and statistics can say whatever we mean them to say. The intricacies are almost elegant for those who care to indulge in that way.

But just like anything good that overindulgence renders unpalatable, we come to a turning point where the simple captures what the detail does not.

Reagan beat Carter by pointing out that for all of the reasons and all of the excuses, Carter was a failure in providing the leadership that was required. And then Reagan proved it by turning the country around.

Unlike Reagan, Obama had no viable plan because he had no special expectation that he would win. That he did left him with his core philosophy of America as a not so worthwhile experiment and a need to reward the special interest groups that managed the election win for him.

With simplistic platitudes Obama was able to energize enough people to overcome the handicaps of an almost complete lack of relevant experience and a lifelong dalliance with the anti-American left.

Americans, for their part, had forgotten that the Left has a more appealing sizzle, but that the steak they serve up always winds up putrid and often enough fatal.

While Sarah Palin almost turned the tables on Obama, the interlude between the conventions and the elections was too short and the simple and meaningless mantra of Hope and Change spoke to what the people wanted.

Sorry, Charlie, the Obama government hasn't delivered and very few people other than his cronies are better off for his being in office.

The excuse making has continued for three and a half years and now we want more, and not more of the same.

 

[Bowfinger]

I can both agree and disagree with you on this. ...

I assume that's from Mitt Romney? It's considered good form to credit quotations.

 

[PJABBER]

I assume that's from Mitt Romney? It's considered good form to credit quotations.

I use quotes for attribution.

Can't stop to linger too much longer today. Threw a few bones out elsewhere, anyway.

Good times, good times.

 

[mshan]

Yes, much. Thank you for asking.

Let's take a look at my investments alone....Thanks Bush for driving it off a cliff though right? Oh wait, we can't blame bush for the past and the 10s of thousands I lost in my investments right?

T. D. Ameritrade's "Enlightened Investor" magazine (fall 2008 edition):

Stock market returns (chart on page 3):


Average Annual Returns:
- Democrat: 9.0%
- Republican: 5.8%

Cumulative Return on $10,000:
- Democrat: $315,449
- Republican: $73,536

Average Annual Returns (individual administrations):
- FDR 7.5%
- Truman 8.3%
- Eisenhower 10.9%
- Kennedy 6.5%
- LBJ 7.7%
- Nixon -3.9%
- Ford 10.8%
- Carter 6.9%
- Reagan 10.2%
- H. W. Bush 11.0%
- Clinton 15.2%
- George W Bush -0.8% (through 8/25/08)


(in reconciling average annual returns with the cumulative gain on $10,000 statistic above, I'm guessing that Republican administrations have represented giant boom and bust cycles where lots of money was made, lots of money was lost, but the net overall effect was simply transfer of wealth, rather than gains that hold significantly over time?)

Wall Street traders probably love wild gyrations in market where they can very actively trade and try and use judicious leverage to try and turbocharge their returns, but main street does much better under boring, steady turtle market of previous Democratic administrations.

 

[PJABBER]

OH and PJABBER, that unemployment statistic on your chart is wrong...the math is wrong. you might want to check it. the change is not 9%

Sorry, I am in kind of in a rush to get to a baseball game, hardball actually.

Latest unemployment info follows. Don't think you will be happy with these data points either.

When can we expect you to join Democrats for Romney/Ryan? :awe:

Recovery Summer 3: July Unemployment Up In 44 States

By JOHN MERLINE, INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
Posted 08/17/2012 03:27 PM ET

In another sign of the ongoing jobs recession, fully 44 states saw their unemployment rates climb in July, according to state-level data released Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

As a result, more than three years after the economic recovery officially started under President Obama, 10 states still have jobless rates of 9% or higher.

Nevada's jobless rate, for example, climbed to 12%, New Jersey's rose to 9.8% and North Carolina's edged up to 9.6%.
-
The states with the highest rates — Nevada, Rhode Island (10.8%), California (10.7%), New Jersey and North Carolina all voted for Obama in 2008.

The four states with the lowest jobless rates are solidly GOP: North Dakota (3%), Nebraska (4%), South Dakota (4%) and Oklahoma (5%). Heavily Democratic Vermont also had 5%.

Big cities continue to suffer exceedingly high unemployment, with rates of 11.2% in the Los Angeles area, 10% in New York City and 9.5% in Miami.

Even in the Detroit metro area, which Obama repeatedly touts as a success story after the bailouts of GM (GM) and Chrysler, the jobless rate has climbed in each of the past three months and is now 10.2%. Overall, Michigan's jobless rate hit 9% in July.

Obama said in a January speech in Michigan that "We placed our bets on the American auto industry, and today, the American auto industry is back. Jobs are coming back."

The U.S. unemployment rate rose to 8.3% in July, according to BLS data released Aug. 3.

Early in his administration, Obama's economic team had forecast that the jobless rate would never hit 8% with the $831 billion stimulus — which Obama signed into law in February 2009. It's been above 8% for 42 straight months.
In addition, 19 states lost a combined total of 91,000 jobs in July, according to the BLS data. Since Obama took office, just 16 states have seen a net gain in jobs.

These dismal numbers continue a trend of lackluster job growth since Obama took office. Even now, more than three years after the last recession officially ended, the economy is still nearly 4.8 million jobs below the pre-recession peak.

Since the recovery began in June 2009, the economy has never managed to create more than 275,000 jobs in any given month. After the U.S. stopped shedding jobs, the average monthly gain has been just 122,000, which is below what many economists say is needed to keep pace with population growth.

By contrast, in the first three years of the early '80s Reagan recovery, the economy created an average of 273,000 jobs a month.

While 2.7 million jobs have been created since the recession, the number of people who are no longer in the labor force — either they quit looking, have put off looking for a job, or retired — has swelled by an astonishing 7.5 million.

The White House now doesn't expect unemployment to dip below 7% until 2015. The year before the recession started, the jobless rate was below 5%.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I'm aware that it's set up with a particular bias, however every President gets tagged for the economy for good or ill. Since that had been consistently applief passing it off as everyone elses fault really does not work if one insists on tarring others at the same time.

Sorry, but that's lame excuse-making. All you're doing is saying that you're willing to engage in deliberate propagandizing because other people do it also.

At the very least, solving the problem can start with not contributing to it.

Now if you'd like to engage in a dialogue with a larger context with less emphasis on personalities and more on cause and effect in modern times I'd be thrilled. Theres not much of that these days.

What, around here? Not unless there are some rule changes. Don't really see any point in attempting a rational discussion when it will simply get derailed within minutes.

 

[mshan]

Stock market returns I posted above are being kind to Dubya, because on 8/25/2008, the S & P 500 ended at 1267. It closed that year at 890.

 

[Jhhnn]

Americans have short memories. They forget that in January 2009 people were worried about us falling into a new depression.

Now they whine because the recovery has been too slow. As a pundit quipped, the complaints boil down to trying to convince people to vote Obama out because he didn't clean up the Republicans' mess fast enough.

That's how Repubs won the midterms, wasn't it?

Well, that and nailing Dems' feet to to the floor in the Senate...

 

[PJABBER]

That's how Repubs won the midterms, wasn't it?

Well, that and nailing Dems' feet to to the floor in the Senate...

100% of the Dems in the Senate voted AGAINST Obama's budgets.

And then they refused to offer up their own.

That's some kinda nailin' down!

 

[mshan]

I like Investor's Business Daily, but their editorials are highly skewed Republican and that article essentially only has 1 swing state of significance (Nevada) on it:

I don't have link to article I read, but IIRC, unemployment in most swing states in play in electoral college this year have below national average unemployment.

Except... Florida (Republican governor):

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Disturbing Trend in Job Formation

Every month, we analyze a litany of statistics for our research clients, and we have been pointing out a disturbing trend. Florida's employment growth is slowing. Florida currently has the slowest year-over-year payroll employment growth of any region in the nation. Of the 20 metropolitan areas in Florida we analyze, 12 of them are now experiencing year-over-year job losses. While the larger metropolitan areas (Tampa, Orlando, Miami, and Jacksonville) are still experiencing year-over-year job gains, the pace is slowing.

http://www.realestateconsulting.com/content/LBMI-201207[/FONT][/FONT]

And I believe Nevada's unemployment rate is falling fast, it just started from a really high baseline. And housing market in Las Vegas appears to be stabilizing: http://www.realestateconsulting.com/content/LBMI-201208

And very low unemployment in those red states is because of oil and gas finds in North Dakota, etc (Bakken shale)

 

[PJABBER]

And very low unemployment in those red states is because of oil and gas finds in North Dakota, etc (Bakken shale)

Drill, baby,drill! :thumbsup:

Glad we can agree on something!

 

[blankslate]

It's simple.

Governor Romney made his experience with Bain Capital a big selling point during the primaries.

The tax records would only help Governor Romney prove that point....

oh wai...