Why does diesel fuel exist?

Nice troll post.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Eeezee
From my understanding, diesel engines are more expensive and heavy, but diesel fuel will get you more miles to the gallon. A diesel car will be more expensive when you first buy it, but you'll get MUCH better mileage, so the car really pays for itself.

Sure, the engine is a little more expensive to replace, but how often do you replace an engine in a car's lifetime? Diesel cars are superior in almost every way if you're not some crazy racing guy.

It's not so much that the fuel gives the engine better mileage (to some small degree it does, since diesel has more energy per unit volume than gasoline, but this is not the main factor), rather the lack of a throttle butterfly is what gives the bulk of the efficiency. A diesel engine has almost no pumping losses. There is an absurd amount of wasted power in gasoline engines from having to pull a manifold vacuum due to the restriction of the throttle butterfly.

ZV

I'd say the higher compression ratio is more of a factor...Carnot cycle.

It's all working together.

Higher compression ratio = greater efficiency, more energy per unit, overall engine design, etc..

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: glenn1

can't trucks just use normal gas?

Why can't an F-15 fill up on 89 octane unleaded rather than JP4?

Okay, I'm guessing it's been a while since you were in the air force, or you live outside the US, where they still use JP4??

Reason being, the USAF stopped using JP4 around 15 years ago, maybe longer. Man, that was some nasty stuff, and very dangerous to be around! Now they use JP8, which is closer to kerosene than the JP4 (which was more like gasoline), and much safer. 🙂

I know Canada still uses JP4, especially up north, because it handles the cold better than JP8. That's why I ask.

Oh yeah, and the reason why diesel fuel exists is because they actually get more of that from a barrel of crude than they get of gasoline. It falls into the kerosene type fuels band, along with jet fuel and, you guessed it, latern fuel. 🙂

 

[drnickriviera]

Originally posted by: jagec
No, they can't use gasoline. Totally different combustion characteristics. Diesel engines exist because they're superior in almost every way, but gasoline engines can be lighter and tend more towards top-end power, making them better for racing and diesels better for hauling and regular driving.

It will be interesting is the rumor mill is true and Audi is going to use a diesel in the R9 race car next year. I think there was a Cat diesel running Lemans a year or two ago.

 

[Howard]

Because diesel tastes good. Try it.

 

[Sureshot324]

Originally posted by: Vic
Horsepower is a marketing tool for gasoline engine makers. Torque is where it's at and diesels make torque in boatloads.

You are wrong. Read this

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: Howard
Because diesel tastes good. Try it.

True but too bad you're joking.

🙂

 

[CorCentral]

Diesel is one of the lesser refined fuels and burns alot dirtier than most! Even with all of the Anti-Polutant measures on diesel vehicles, diesel sucks a**. You guys all cry for a clean world w/cleaner air but when it comes down to it, you cry in the opposite direction every time if it's YOU that drives a diesel car/truck!!!!!

I say tax the hell out of diesel............ = More hybrid cars. The suv manufacturers are already crapping thier pants.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian

Originally posted by: glenn1

can't trucks just use normal gas?

Why can't an F-15 fill up on 89 octane unleaded rather than JP4?

Okay, I'm guessing it's been a while since you were in the air force, or you live outside the US, where they still use JP4??

Reason being, the USAF stopped using JP4 around 15 years ago, maybe longer. Man, that was some nasty stuff, and very dangerous to be around! Now they use JP8, which is closer to kerosene than the JP4 (which was more like gasoline), and much safer. 🙂

I know Canada still uses JP4, especially up north, because it handles the cold better than JP8. That's why I ask.

Oh yeah, and the reason why diesel fuel exists is because they actually get more of that from a barrel of crude than they get of gasoline. It falls into the kerosene type fuels band, along with jet fuel and, you guessed it, latern fuel. 🙂

When I was on an aircraft carrier JP4 was considered benign compared to Av gas. That stuff was plain nasty if it caught on fire. They made us sit and watch those Forrestal films at every fire fighting class I attended.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: CorCentral
Diesel is one of the lesser refined fuels and burns alot dirtier than most! Even with all of the Anti-Polutant measures on diesel vehicles, diesel sucks a**. You guys all cry for a clean world w/cleaner air but when it comes down to it, you cry in the opposite direction every time if it's YOU that drives a diesel car/truck!!!!!

I say tax the hell out of diesel............ = More hybrid cars. The suv manufacturers are already crapping thier pants.

I'll take uninformed for 1000, Alex.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: CorCentral
Diesel is one of the lesser refined fuels and burns alot dirtier than most! Even with all of the Anti-Polutant measures on diesel vehicles, diesel sucks a**. You guys all cry for a clean world w/cleaner air but when it comes down to it, you cry in the opposite direction every time if it's YOU that drives a diesel car/truck!!!!!

I say tax the hell out of diesel............ = More hybrid cars. The suv manufacturers are already crapping thier pants.

The economic consequences of a sudden heavy diesel tax would be nothing short of disastrous.

A rather small percentage of presonal cars and trucks are diesel. Most of the important bulk transport however is diesel fueled (trains, semis, etc..).

 

[CorCentral]

Elly---- Dirty burning fuels should be taxed more...... Plain and simple.

K1052---- Sudden? Who said anything about sudden? They're already paying more at the pump! Make cleaner burning engines!

 

[Rubycon]

If anything should be taxed more heavily it's tobacco products, namely cigarettes. People will still buy them even if they were $15/pack. :roll:

 

[mjrpes3]

I wonder why type of MPG you'd get if you combined these three factors

1. Diesal
2. Hybrid
3. Small form factor

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Diesel..
Gasoline
Diesel is easier to derive but is more difficult to combust. Current manufacturing techniques and lack of convenience of fuel stataions that sell diesel make it almost silly that diesels have such a low market share because of the chicken and egg syndrome.

The more diesels cars there are on the road the more fuel stations will carry diesel that don't already. Since most americans outside of a lot of farmers and truckers have used gasonline seemingly for ever it is hard to change the general populations mindset. (there are many that still think higher octane petro burns hotter)

Oil companies have invested billions in gasoline refinerys/distrobution, and are not about to let them go to waste (anyone else notice thier quarterly profits lately?) If there were a sudden shift toward diesel sales in the US it would cost these oil companies billions to retool production from gasoline to diesel which could also lead the way to smaller oil companies cutting into the large corporations profits as well. (I personally think that is currently why diesel is so much more expensive that gasoline these days, I don't remember ever seeing diesel cost more per gallon than petro, it shouldn't it's easier and costs less to refine.)

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong

Oil companies have invested billions in gasoline refinerys/distrobution, and are not about to let them go to waste (anyone else notice thier quarterly profits lately?)

They made like 10 billion(10,000,000,000) dollars in the past 4 months at a 89% profit.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
The ownage is strong in this thread.

ignorance, too.

😉

Diesels don't make much power without the help of superchargers (turbos are superchargers too). They are very strong engines because they run on compression not spark ignition. At 20+ to 1 compression ratios, you better have a strong block and super tuff cranks, rods, pistons and bearings. Designed to take advantage of the fact diesels can't do high revs, these engines have a lot of stroke compared to a gasoline engine and this translates into lots of torque.

Toughest gas engine ever made: slant 6. I would put this engine up against any diesel engine for reliability and durability.

 

[Baked]

Diesel = Cheap
Gas = Expensive

It's that simple.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Baked
Diesel = Cheap
Gas = Expensive

It's that simple.

Not here it isn't.

Gas $.85/litre
Diesel $.97/litre.

 

[YoshiSato]

Originally posted by: Baked
Diesel = Cheap
Gas = Expensive

It's that simple.

Cheap gas is $2.17/gal Diesel is currnelty 2.70/gal

It varies based on season

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
Diesel..
Gasoline
Diesel is easier to derive but is more difficult to combust. Current manufacturing techniques and lack of convenience of fuel stataions that sell diesel make it almost silly that diesels have such a low market share because of the chicken and egg syndrome.

The more diesels cars there are on the road the more fuel stations will carry diesel that don't already. Since most americans outside of a lot of farmers and truckers have used gasonline seemingly for ever it is hard to change the general populations mindset. (there are many that still think higher octane petro burns hotter)

Oil companies have invested billions in gasoline refinerys/distrobution, and are not about to let them go to waste (anyone else notice thier quarterly profits lately?) If there were a sudden shift toward diesel sales in the US it would cost these oil companies billions to retool production from gasoline to diesel which could also lead the way to smaller oil companies cutting into the large corporations profits as well. (I personally think that is currently why diesel is so much more expensive that gasoline these days, I don't remember ever seeing diesel cost more per gallon than petro, it shouldn't it's easier and costs less to refine.)

if i'm not mistaken, diesel is actually easier to combust because it does so readily (without a spark) at high temp/pressures - hence why diesel engines have no spark plugs.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: tfinch2
The ownage is strong in this thread.

ignorance, too.

😉

Diesels don't make much power without the help of superchargers (turbos are superchargers too). They are very strong engines because they run on compression not spark ignition. At 20+ to 1 compression ratios, you better have a strong block and super tuff cranks, rods, pistons and bearings. Designed to take advantage of the fact diesels can't do high revs, these engines have a lot of stroke compared to a gasoline engine and this translates into lots of torque.

Toughest gas engine ever made: slant 6. I would put this engine up against any diesel engine for reliability and durability.

My dad is a huge slant 6 lover. He owns 2 cars w/ slant 6s. One has 355,000 miles ('66) and the other has 365,000 miles ('69).

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
Diesel..
Gasoline
Diesel is easier to derive but is more difficult to combust. Current manufacturing techniques and lack of convenience of fuel stataions that sell diesel make it almost silly that diesels have such a low market share because of the chicken and egg syndrome.

The more diesels cars there are on the road the more fuel stations will carry diesel that don't already. Since most americans outside of a lot of farmers and truckers have used gasonline seemingly for ever it is hard to change the general populations mindset. (there are many that still think higher octane petro burns hotter)

Oil companies have invested billions in gasoline refinerys/distrobution, and are not about to let them go to waste (anyone else notice thier quarterly profits lately?) If there were a sudden shift toward diesel sales in the US it would cost these oil companies billions to retool production from gasoline to diesel which could also lead the way to smaller oil companies cutting into the large corporations profits as well. (I personally think that is currently why diesel is so much more expensive that gasoline these days, I don't remember ever seeing diesel cost more per gallon than petro, it shouldn't it's easier and costs less to refine.)

if i'm not mistaken, diesel is actually easier to combust because it does so readily (without a spark) at high temp/pressures - hence why diesel engines have no spark plugs.

You are mistaken. Diesels have compression ratios well above 16:1. The highest I've seen in a gasoline engine is around 12:1. It's the very high compression ratio that allows the diesel to ignite without a spark plug. If you put diesel oil in a gasoline engine, it may not even ignite at all, even with the spark plugs firing.

ZV

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: tfinch2
The ownage is strong in this thread.

ignorance, too.

😉

Diesels don't make much power without the help of superchargers (turbos are superchargers too). They are very strong engines because they run on compression not spark ignition. At 20+ to 1 compression ratios, you better have a strong block and super tuff cranks, rods, pistons and bearings. Designed to take advantage of the fact diesels can't do high revs, these engines have a lot of stroke compared to a gasoline engine and this translates into lots of torque.

Toughest gas engine ever made: slant 6. I would put this engine up against any diesel engine for reliability and durability.

My dad is a huge slant 6 lover. He owns 2 cars w/ slant 6s. One has 355,000 miles ('66) and the other has 365,000 miles ('69).

cool.

I had a 1977 slant 6 Volare wagon and just loved that car. Try as I might, I couldn't kill that slant 6. Ran it dry of oil twice, burned exhaust valve and no lash adjustment for 5 years and it still ran great. I developed a great deal respect for the slant 6 after that. Mine had over 300K kms on it and was still running when the body rusted out. I will always miss that car.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
Diesel..
Gasoline
Diesel is easier to derive but is more difficult to combust. Current manufacturing techniques and lack of convenience of fuel stataions that sell diesel make it almost silly that diesels have such a low market share because of the chicken and egg syndrome.

The more diesels cars there are on the road the more fuel stations will carry diesel that don't already. Since most americans outside of a lot of farmers and truckers have used gasonline seemingly for ever it is hard to change the general populations mindset. (there are many that still think higher octane petro burns hotter)

Oil companies have invested billions in gasoline refinerys/distrobution, and are not about to let them go to waste (anyone else notice thier quarterly profits lately?) If there were a sudden shift toward diesel sales in the US it would cost these oil companies billions to retool production from gasoline to diesel which could also lead the way to smaller oil companies cutting into the large corporations profits as well. (I personally think that is currently why diesel is so much more expensive that gasoline these days, I don't remember ever seeing diesel cost more per gallon than petro, it shouldn't it's easier and costs less to refine.)

if i'm not mistaken, diesel is actually easier to combust because it does so readily (without a spark) at high temp/pressures - hence why diesel engines have no spark plugs.

You are mistaken. Diesels have compression ratios well above 16:1. The highest I've seen in a gasoline engine is around 12:1. It's the very high compression ratio that allows the diesel to ignite without a spark plug. If you put diesel oil in a gasoline engine, it may not even ignite at all, even with the spark plugs firing.

ZV

compression ratio has to do with temp/pressure, no? at least i got the spark plug part right 😀

<--- not a car buff