Why do you use windows?

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Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0
Originally posted by: ergeorge
Ok, here's an example from some work I was doing yesterday afternoon of the command line being far more powerful.

I think I have a problem with a slew rate assignment in a code I work with. So, as a starting point, I want to see every assignment to a variable named slew_rate in the whole directory tree. Except it may be spelled a variety of ways:
slewrate
slew_rate
SlewRate
SLEWRATE
Slewing_Rate
SlewRate1
Slew_Rate2
slwrate
etc....

I don't want to see stuff like

MaxSlewRate
Slew_Rate_Max

I only want to see assignments, so there should be an '=' following the variable (with some or no whitespace), and the variable should be at the beginning of the line (potentially with some amount of whitespace)
I also want to see the two lines preceeding each of these matches, for possible comments, and one line following for longer assignments.

I want to see the filename/path and line number for each match also.

How do I do this:

> grep -rin -B2 -A1 "^[ \t]*/<sl[e]?w[-]?rate[0-9]?[\t]*=" base_code_dir

Now I'm sure all you windows people are looking at this as a poster child for why you don't want anything to do with a command line.
But think about it. This took me maybe 2 or 3 minutes to write & execute to accomplish everything that I described above. Sure, it took me awhile to learn grep & regular expressions. But now it's easy.
How would you do this in windows?
If you have a nice GUI IDE that could do this for you, how much did it cost? How well would it work over a relatively slow network connection to a machine about 1000 miles away?
What was your learning curve to accomplish this on that IDE?

Now I look at these results and see that I'm really interested in SlewRate1, but I want 4 lines of following context. I hit the up arrow key, and edit the previous line:

> grep -rn -B2 -A3 "^[ \t]*/<SlewRate1[\t]*=" base_code_dir

Now I see that what I really need to see is the assignments to variables called azimuth_rate and elevation_rate in the file base_code_dir/tools/read_sensors.cc

> grep -n -B2 -A1 "^[ \t]*/<(azimuth_rate|elevation_rate)[ \t]*=" base_code_dir/tools/read_sensors.cc

Also note that I can send these lines to other developers, and if they know regular expressions, they know exactly what I'm doing. So, If I want to consult with somebody else on the azimuth_rate assignment, I e-mail them the last regex, and my results, and they can run it against their code tree for comparison. How long would it take to communicate your windows method for doing this to somebody else?

Again, their is certainly a relatively steep learning curve. But once you climb it, it has tremendous power.



use findstr!!!!! it does the same fvcking thing as grep!!!

 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: Ameesh

use findstr!!!!! it does the same fvcking thing as grep!!!

No it doesn't.
Off the top of my head, looking at the
findstr documentation:, it doesn't have any way to include context lines. And the regular expression it accepts are motre limited (no '?' operator, no pre-defined character classes)

And, FWIW, I just tried the first search above (without the '?' & context stuff) with findstr. It is INCREDIBLY slow compared to the grep search. In fact, it still hasn't completed, while grep took just seconds.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
In what ways did he prove me wrong? My points were clear and (IMO) he was merely being obtuse by missing them. I really didn't think further explanation was necessary, but I guess so, eh?

perhaps then, you missed my points.

First, Ameesh has made it very clear to everyone that he works for MS. As such, he represents the company whenever he discusses an MS product on this board. It was his own choice to be in this position. Sure, he might have been joking by his comment, but I thought it was out of line and said so. My comments were directed solely to Ameesh. Somehow, gopunk got the completely wrong idea that I was trying to use Ameesh's comments to stop people from buying MS products and I guess that puts me on some wierd high horse, eh?
rolleye.gif
Perhaps I should have sent a PM?


no, that's not the idea i got. i got the impression you were telling him he was not doing a good job representing MS. i was merely telling you that it's not really a concern, since ameesh's actions will probably not result in any decreased sales for MS, which is why it's important to look good when representing a company anyways.

And then the WinXP activation issue, I wasn't speaking personally about myself. I use WinXP everyday at work and really don't see what the big deal is about. XP is about as different from 2k as 98 was from 95B (which was not much). But then throw in Product Activation and the lack of a perpetual license and it seems pretty obvious that MS is going to do a lot more with XP than just cut off WindowsUpdate in a few years. As it is, notfred listed Product Activation as a negative of WinXP and Ameesh said, "Don't steal and it won't be a problem." Once again, I disagreed with Ameesh and stated why. Instead of being proven wrong, that MS wouldn't discontinue XP licenses in a few years, I was simply told (in a wierd way) that just leasing XP for a few years would be worth and hey, even a plus.

no, that's not what i said. i said that i seriously doubt your paranoid fears will ever come true, and that even if they did, you wouldn't be worse off for it. now that i think about it though, you might be worse off, if you have to pay for the OS's.

I use Windows and always have. It's great software and it works. I've never even tried Linux. But I actually pay for and buy my software from Microsoft and that makes me a customer and all I ask is to be treated like one. But that me on some wierd high horse again, right? :disgust:

like i posed earlier, do you refuse to shop in stores with security cameras? do you refuse to buy cd's with antitheft devices on them? what about clothes?


BTW, it is not "weird high horse" it is "weird horse" :p
 

Nighthawk69

Golden Member
Oct 10, 2000
1,113
0
0
I run Linux (Red Hat 7.3) for everything as it does everything I need and more. Unbelievably stable, all my gear works. I dual-boot WinXP for two reasons: Ghost Recon and Counter-Strike. I only use Windows like 1% of the time my computer is on... I play a few games of GR about once a week and only play CS at LAN parties. I play Quake 3 (and my mods) and RTCW in Linux.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
Originally posted by: gopunk
like i posed earlier, do you refuse to shop in stores with security cameras? do you refuse to buy cd's with antitheft devices on them? what about clothes?

If everytime I bought a pair of pants, I had to pay for them, take them home, then call the store back and ask "Can I wear my pants now?" and hope they said yes, and then if I wanted to wear my pants with a different shirt, call them backand say "I changed my shirt, can I get permission to wear my pants with the new shirt?" No, I would not buy pants from that retailer.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: gopunk
like i posed earlier, do you refuse to shop in stores with security cameras? do you refuse to buy cd's with antitheft devices on them? what about clothes?

If everytime I bought a pair of pants, I had to pay for them, take them home, then call the store back and ask "Can I wear my pants now?" and hope they said yes, and then if I wanted to wear my pants with a different shirt, call them backand say "I changed my shirt, can I get permission to wear my pants with the new shirt?" No, I would not buy pants from that retailer.

you missed the point. he was ranting about how he was being treated like a criminal. you are being treated like a criminal in the examples i gave. yet people don't mind that.

btw the reason why your example is so ricockulous is because unlike software, clothing can only be used by one person at one time.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
8,552
126
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: gopunk
like i posed earlier, do you refuse to shop in stores with security cameras? do you refuse to buy cd's with antitheft devices on them? what about clothes?

If everytime I bought a pair of pants, I had to pay for them, take them home, then call the store back and ask "Can I wear my pants now?" and hope they said yes, and then if I wanted to wear my pants with a different shirt, call them backand say "I changed my shirt, can I get permission to wear my pants with the new shirt?" No, I would not buy pants from that retailer.

you missed the point. he was ranting about how he was being treated like a criminal. you are being treated like a criminal in the examples i gave. yet people don't mind that.

btw the reason why your example is so ricockulous is because unlike software, clothing can only be used by one person at one time.

security cams don't impact me in any way. they don't break the buying experience. windows xp product registration does. you upgrade your hardware faster than MS deems necessary and you have to call them about it and explain it to them. how long does that take? you want to roll out the same install to 100 computers, you bought the licenses, but for expediency's sake you're using the same key on all of them, at least you did in win2k. have they come up with a good way to do that in xp yet? this is just another barrier to legitimate corporate use for xp (not that theres much of a reason to go from 2k to xp anyway).
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,086
3,851
136
Originally posted by: gopunk

I agree that for some applications windows isn't up to par, but it still seems the *nix crowd is an elitist bunch who is using it for the sake of being different and anti-MS, even though what they are doing is already being done by windows in a faster and more efficient manner.

mm... yea, linux people :p unix people are cool... (and use it out of necessity)
You guys are both retards for this particular opinion (gopunk was probably being facetious but who cares). First off, UNIX has been around for ages and has excelled in the workstation and server markets for many years. People use it because it works, and often works better than Windows. Windows established solid (not perfect) stability just two years ago and everybody is supposed to switch to it because you feel it's faster and more efficient? People are different; it's completely brain-dead for you to say everyone would benefit most from using Windows, but instead Linux geeks just want to be different.

A lot of those geeks used Windows (and DOS) for years as well. If WInblows was the best thing since sliced bread, then nobody would have even considered switching away. The bottom line is no one tool is perfect, and different people appreciate different products. But that concept appears a little too profound for some people to understand.

Arguing CLI vs GUI is silly. For expert users, the CLI is often preferred. The CLI is superior if you're scripting complex tasks. Now if you're just Joe User who needs to do one basic task, then you can live with the simpler GUIs that MS has designed. To argue that the GUI is always superior, or vice versa just displays ignorance. The argument that a few GUIs/wizards makes Windows more efficient to use is ludicrous. This is covered in an introductory HCI/User Interfaces course.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: gopunk
like i posed earlier, do you refuse to shop in stores with security cameras? do you refuse to buy cd's with antitheft devices on them? what about clothes?

If everytime I bought a pair of pants, I had to pay for them, take them home, then call the store back and ask "Can I wear my pants now?" and hope they said yes, and then if I wanted to wear my pants with a different shirt, call them backand say "I changed my shirt, can I get permission to wear my pants with the new shirt?" No, I would not buy pants from that retailer.

you missed the point. he was ranting about how he was being treated like a criminal. you are being treated like a criminal in the examples i gave. yet people don't mind that.

btw the reason why your example is so ricockulous is because unlike software, clothing can only be used by one person at one time.

You missed my point. My point was that software activation is a pain in the ass. My example is perfectly fine from a practical standpoint, and I didn't mean for it to apply in the reasoning for the licensing, just the annoying act of registering your product.
 

BennyD

Banned
Sep 1, 2002
2,068
0
0
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: civad
ms gives away a ton of software.... i got 3 copies of xp pro and 2 copies of visual studio .net for free. most of the giveaways are to developers and students.

someone i know is a developer and he has copies of visual studio/office/xp/2000 up the yazoo
 

edmicman

Golden Member
May 30, 2001
1,682
0
0
Originally posted by: manly

A lot of those geeks used Windows (and DOS) for years as well. If WInblows was the best thing since sliced bread, then nobody would have even considered switching away. The bottom line is no one tool is perfect, and different people appreciate different products. But that concept appears a little too profound for some people to understand.

If linux is so much better than Windows, then why does the majority of the general world population still use it? Its not because of a monopoly, its because Windows is hands down the winner for a general purpose operating system. You can make and tout all the niche products you want. Thats what hardware chips are for. I use a $5 calculator to calculate numbers. I use a watch to tell time. If I want a cheap server box that won't give problems and just sit there basically doing nothing but serve files or webpages, I'll use a linux or something similar. Hell, I'll bust out DOS 6 and use that just out of spite. But if I want to play games, use my computer as a multimedia center, do a little office work, even program some, browse the internet, go to the store and actually have PROFESSIONAL software selection that I can take home and use, get virutally ANY piece of hardware and be able to use it without spending forever getting it to work (or <gasp>writing my own driver
rolleye.gif
) without having to have a masters in Comp Sci, then I'll take a Windows box. Nothing else can do that with as much ease.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: gopunk
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: gopunk
like i posed earlier, do you refuse to shop in stores with security cameras? do you refuse to buy cd's with antitheft devices on them? what about clothes?

If everytime I bought a pair of pants, I had to pay for them, take them home, then call the store back and ask "Can I wear my pants now?" and hope they said yes, and then if I wanted to wear my pants with a different shirt, call them backand say "I changed my shirt, can I get permission to wear my pants with the new shirt?" No, I would not buy pants from that retailer.

you missed the point. he was ranting about how he was being treated like a criminal. you are being treated like a criminal in the examples i gave. yet people don't mind that.

btw the reason why your example is so ricockulous is because unlike software, clothing can only be used by one person at one time.

You missed my point. My point was that software activation is a pain in the ass. My example is perfectly fine from a practical standpoint, and I didn't mean for it to apply in the reasoning for the licensing, just the annoying act of registering your product.

if your idea of a pain in the ass is making a 1 minute no-hassle phone call *at worst*, then maybe your ass is too sensitive.
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
2
0
Originally posted by: manly
Originally posted by: gopunk

I agree that for some applications windows isn't up to par, but it still seems the *nix crowd is an elitist bunch who is using it for the sake of being different and anti-MS, even though what they are doing is already being done by windows in a faster and more efficient manner.

mm... yea, linux people :p unix people are cool... (and use it out of necessity)
You guys are both retards for this particular opinion (gopunk was probably being facetious but who cares). First off, UNIX has been around for ages and has excelled in the workstation and server markets for many years. People use it because it works, and often works better than Windows. Windows established solid (not perfect) stability just two years ago and everybody is supposed to switch to it because you feel it's faster and more efficient? People are different; it's completely brain-dead for you to say everyone would benefit most from using Windows, but instead Linux geeks just want to be different.

you're right... unix is cool. :p

seriously though, i know there is a subset of linux users that actually have a real need for linux. but the loudest people in the crowd (read: slashdot) are usually just people who have some weird ethical problem with using ms products and think linux is the best thing since sliced bread.
 

Electrode

Diamond Member
May 4, 2001
6,063
2
81
Why do you use windows?

Depends on what kind of windows you're referring to. If you're talking about that sh!tty excuse for an OS, I don't use it. Of you're talking about the glass kind, I use them because without them, I'd have absolutely no exposure to natural light. :)
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
3,314
1
0
Because it's the universally accepted standard. I have no need to prove myself superior to the general public by being a non-conformist when it comes to my OS. I prove myself superior by just being. :)
 

Athlon4all

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
5,416
0
76
I use Windows because it has the best Application compatibility and I thhink very good stability in Windows XP/2000.
 

dukdukgoos

Golden Member
Dec 1, 1999
1,319
0
76
Games. When all the big games are released for linux, I'll drop Windows like a shot. There should be some kind of Linux consortium put together to encourage porting games. Linux will be in a prime position to capitalize when MS stupidly implements all it's upcoming Digital Rights Management stuff (which consumers overwhelmingly don't want).
 

rojkai

Member
Oct 22, 2001
70
0
0
because i cant build a mac for less than $1000 and i believe anybody who likes UNIX for the purpose of being able to type in commands is simply out of their minds..computers are supposed to make our lives easier, no ?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: rojkai
because i cant build a mac for less than $1000 and i believe anybody who likes UNIX for the purpose of being able to type in commands is simply out of their minds..computers are supposed to make our lives easier, no ?

The iMac starts at $799..

If I were to imagine my mom using the new iMac with OS X, she'd probably do quite well with it. You turn it on, and there on the bottom of the screen are all the applications she would use. She just does email and browses the web, and that's about it. The only thing I've run across so far in the few days that I've owned my iMac is that the method for connecting to a SMB share on a Windows box isn't quite as intuitive as everything else: You click on "Go" in the Finder and select "Connect to SMB share", as opposed to double-clicking the "Connect to Server" icon.

My Win2K box also rebooted once while the iMac was connected to it. Not sure who was at fault there, however.

Edit: Admittedly I haven't dug into it too far yet. I've only owned it for a few days, and I've been busy listening to iTunes :D