Why do you use windows?

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
I use Win2K for the fact that there's a couple of games I like to play, and because most filesharing apps tend to be developed for Windows. Yes, they're also developed for Linux, but they're somewhat clumsier.

I will not buy any version of Windows that forces me to use Product Activation. I prefer not to be treated like a criminal until proven otherwise (whether I am or not). I also upgrade and move PCs around from time to time, so I'd have to reactivate, and that would be a pain in the ass.

Ameesh, can you do anything about the fact that windowsupdate.microsoft.com forces you to reboot every single time you apply a critical update? To me, that is the single most annoying thing about the damn OS..

If DRM/Palladium "trusted computing" ever gets shoved down our throats, I will permanently switch to Linux.

i forget how it was in 2k, but in xp, you don't have to reboot. of course, the changes won't take effect... but you're not forced to reboot until you want to.

do you ever buy clothes with the little anti-theft tag on them? what about cds? dvds? ever walk through a store with the anti-theft detector stuff in the doorway? ever go to a store where they have security cameras? ever fly on an airplane and go through airport security? and activating is just a quick 1 minute phone call, hardly a pain in the ass.

 

[gopunk]

Just some general comments....I don't get the argument about how typing arcane commands is easier than a point and click interface? Why should you have to know and remember "xteejls" or some other non-intuitive string command to do some basic function that can easily be graphically represented? It seems that all too often the *nix fanboys are are on their high horse because "we aren't with microsoft" rather than "this does it better"

well, you really have to use *nix regularly to understand that. to illustrate though, if i told you to seach every file in a directory for a string, and then output each line that contained that string, how would you do it?

in *nix it's just:

grep string path/expression

or, if that seems obscure (which it isn't), how about just copying a file? in windows you have to click, ctrl-c, find where you want it go, ctrl-v. it depends of course, but sometimes that requires a lot of clicking through the folders. in *nix it's just:

cp source location

 

[Vic]

gopunk, you completely missed my points.

 

[thawolfman]

cuz iuhno how to use linux

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
gopunk, you completely missed my points.

could you clarify your points (and how i missed them)?

 

[Beattie]

do you ever buy clothes with the little anti-theft tag on them? what about cds? dvds? ever walk through a store with the anti-theft detector stuff in the doorway? ever go to a store where they have security cameras? ever fly on an airplane and go through airport security? and activating is just a quick 1 minute phone call, hardly a pain in the ass.

That not the point.

The point is that I don't want someone else deciding if/when I can change the components in my computer. I don't want someone else deciding that I can't use my programs... etc...

 

[ProviaFan]

One of my mom's friends' husband is an avid Linux user (and has been for quite some time). Thus, his wife (my mom's friend), pretty much learned about computers right from the start with Linux. Anyway, so much for the long intro, but the short and to the point part is that not too long ago she commented that she was having a terrible time trying to use windows, since she was so much used to Linux. Thus, what's easiest for you depends on what you've grown up on. My first computer was DOS, although I've been using Windows most of my computing life, when I tried Linux, it was not all too foreign to me. The commands were different, but they worked in a familiar way, so it wasn't that hard to learn.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Beattie

do you ever buy clothes with the little anti-theft tag on them? what about cds? dvds? ever walk through a store with the anti-theft detector stuff in the doorway? ever go to a store where they have security cameras? ever fly on an airplane and go through airport security? and activating is just a quick 1 minute phone call, hardly a pain in the ass.

That not the point.

The point is that I don't want someone else deciding if/when I can change the components in my computer. I don't want someone else deciding that I can't use my programs... etc...

that wasn't your post, fyi... you shouldn't decide what someone else's point is.

but in response to your comments, nobody is deciding those things, what are you talking about? you call up, give them your old number, they give you your new number. i wonder if all of you people who are so deathly afraid of wpa have actually went through the procedure. it is really painless.

 

[TheOmegaCode]

Originally posted by: Ameesh
because im not a scared FUD spreading communistic turn coat.

Better a communist than a follower of Mammon... :Q

 

[BatmanNate]

I use Windows to play, and FreeBSD to serve. Works out well for me.

 

[Evadman]

I use windows because it is easy to use, 90% of software out there runs on it, and it is free.

Opps, did I say that?

 

[Pastore]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
gopunk, you completely missed my points.

could you clarify your points (and how i missed them)?

its funny how when you prove someone wrong, they say, "oh that wasnt my point", or, "you missed what i was saying"

 

[JamesM3M5]

Originally posted by: bigrash9

Why do you use windows?

because if I didn't have windows in my room, the sunlight would not come in.

Corny, but that's the first smart-ass answer I came up with, too.

 

[BeauJangles]

Games

 

[jhu]

i use windows so i can see out my room

 

[edmicman]

Originally posted by: gopunk
Just some general comments....I don't get the argument about how typing arcane commands is easier than a point and click interface? Why should you have to know and remember "xteejls" or some other non-intuitive string command to do some basic function that can easily be graphically represented? It seems that all too often the *nix fanboys are are on their high horse because "we aren't with microsoft" rather than "this does it better"

well, you really have to use *nix regularly to understand that. to illustrate though, if i told you to seach every file in a directory for a string, and then output each line that contained that string, how would you do it?

in *nix it's just:

grep string path/expression

Well, off the bat I'd windows-key-F for Find and theres an option to search files for a string of text. It would be a start

or, if that seems obscure (which it isn't), how about just copying a file? in windows you have to click, ctrl-c, find where you want it go, ctrl-v. it depends of course, but sometimes that requires a lot of clicking through the folders. in *nix it's just:

cp source location

True, but theres also copy source location in DOS (or the command prompt, whatever). My point was this: I grew up on DOS, and foudn that fairly intuitive commandwise. Edit edits a file. Dosshell ran a shell program. Copy copied. Dir brought a directory. My experience with Unix, admittedly limited and only in an academic setting to get labs done, I don't find the commands intuitive at all. Sure, grep is powerful, etc etc....but wtf is 'grep'? It doesn't make sense to me. ll? ls? You shouldn't need a dictionaries worth of commands, many of which dont look or sound like anything that they do, plus a plethora of switches for each in order to just USE an OS. Sit down a novice user at a win or mac machine, and they'll be doing at least SOMETHING within a few minutes. Icons can be clicked, things will happen. Sit a novice down at a command line prompt, and then what? You shouldn't have to type 'netscape' to open a browser. IMHO clicking an icon is much easier. You can't type a word as fast as you can click a mouse, eh? I agree that for some applications windows isn't up to par, but it still seems the *nix crowd is an elitist bunch who is using it for the sake of being different and anti-MS, even though what they are doing is already being done by windows in a faster and more efficient manner.

 

[TheOmegaCode]

Originally posted by: Evadman
I use windows because it is easy to use, 90% of software out there runs on it, and it is free.

Opps, did I say that?

Actually, your numbers are grossly inaccurate. There is a lot more software for open source operates than you think... 90% of the software you use is ported to Windows...

 

[KingofBladez]

Because I dont feel like learning how to use anything else.
I use my computer to relax after work...I dont feel like doing more work to get it going.

 

[gopunk]

Well, off the bat I'd windows-key-F for Find and theres an option to search files for a string of text. It would be a start

yep, but no way to display the lines without opening each file

True, but theres also copy source location in DOS (or the command prompt, whatever). My point was this: I grew up on DOS, and foudn that fairly intuitive commandwise. Edit edits a file. Dosshell ran a shell program. Copy copied. Dir brought a directory. My experience with Unix, admittedly limited and only in an academic setting to get labs done, I don't find the commands intuitive at all.

no, they aren't... nobody ever said they were. but once you know them (just takes regular usage), they're fast (which is what the argument is).

Sure, grep is powerful, etc etc....but wtf is 'grep'? It doesn't make sense to me. ll? ls? You shouldn't need a dictionaries worth of commands, many of which dont look or sound like anything that they do, plus a plethora of switches for each in order to just USE an OS.

i know, but also keep in mind things like grep are programs. it's not like the usage of "napster" or "excel" is blatantly obvious.

Sit down a novice user at a win or mac machine, and they'll be doing at least SOMETHING within a few minutes. Icons can be clicked, things will happen. Sit a novice down at a command line prompt, and then what? You shouldn't have to type 'netscape' to open a browser. IMHO clicking an icon is much easier. You can't type a word as fast as you can click a mouse, eh?

not if the mouse is already over the icon. but otherwise, i think the speeds are comparable, since you have to look for the icon and move the mouse there.

I agree that for some applications windows isn't up to par, but it still seems the *nix crowd is an elitist bunch who is using it for the sake of being different and anti-MS, even though what they are doing is already being done by windows in a faster and more efficient manner.

mm... yea, linux people unix people are cool... (and use it out of necessity)

 

[CubicZirconia]

I don't see any real advantage to running linux. Windows is perfectly stable and is compatible with everything. Adding/swapping hardware is easy too. Mac is out of the question for me since I'm a gamer.

 

[halkebul]

If someone would create a PlayStation2 emulator for Linux, I could switch to Linux and be totally free from Microsoft forever. Afterall, all I do is play games and listen to MP3s. I could play PlayStation2 games using the PlayStation2 emulator, considering Linux is not a good gaming platform (not yet at least), and listen to music using WinAmp for Linux. But wait, Age of Mythology is only playable on a Win32 based system. DAMN! And Age of Mythology is published by Microsoft. DAMN! "Just when I think I'm out, they keep pulling me back in." - The Godfather Part III

 

[randomlinh]

some photo software i use is windows only, altho i might be able to find a subsitute for it.
netMD... i don't think anything fully functional will come out for quite a while.
my digicam.. altho if linux supports usb card readers.. and someone has an automated program to grab the pics...
ease of use because of backgroud... i've been using windows forever... i'm somewhat lazy.
and games.

other than this, i think i could live on another OS.. if i was willing to learn. only thing i use linux for is an http box

must add tho.. i too was tempted to switch to mac for one reason.. they had a cool ass screensaver that fades in/out and zooms in/out a directory of pictures. xp has somethin like it.. but no where near as cool that and there's another program that allows you to set it as the *backgound* i want that for windows.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Beast1284

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: PSYWVic
gopunk, you completely missed my points.

could you clarify your points (and how i missed them)?

its funny how when you prove someone wrong, they say, "oh that wasnt my point", or, "you missed what i was saying"

In what ways did he prove me wrong? My points were clear and (IMO) he was merely being obtuse by missing them. I really didn't think further explanation was necessary, but I guess so, eh?

First, Ameesh has made it very clear to everyone that he works for MS. As such, he represents the company whenever he discusses an MS product on this board. It was his own choice to be in this position. Sure, he might have been joking by his comment, but I thought it was out of line and said so. My comments were directed solely to Ameesh. Somehow, gopunk got the completely wrong idea that I was trying to use Ameesh's comments to stop people from buying MS products and I guess that puts me on some wierd high horse, eh?

Perhaps I should have sent a PM?

And then the WinXP activation issue, I wasn't speaking personally about myself. I use WinXP everyday at work and really don't see what the big deal is about. XP is about as different from 2k as 98 was from 95B (which was not much). But then throw in Product Activation and the lack of a perpetual license and it seems pretty obvious that MS is going to do a lot more with XP than just cut off WindowsUpdate in a few years. As it is, notfred listed Product Activation as a negative of WinXP and Ameesh said, "Don't steal and it won't be a problem." Once again, I disagreed with Ameesh and stated why. Instead of being proven wrong, that MS wouldn't discontinue XP licenses in a few years, I was simply told (in a wierd way) that just leasing XP for a few years would be worth and hey, even a plus.

I use Windows and always have. It's great software and it works. I've never even tried Linux. But I actually pay for and buy my software from Microsoft and that makes me a customer and all I ask is to be treated like one. But that me on some wierd high horse again, right? :disgust:

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: gopunk
Just some general comments....I don't get the argument about how typing arcane commands is easier than a point and click interface? Why should you have to know and remember "xteejls" or some other non-intuitive string command to do some basic function that can easily be graphically represented? It seems that all too often the *nix fanboys are are on their high horse because "we aren't with microsoft" rather than "this does it better"

well, you really have to use *nix regularly to understand that. to illustrate though, if i told you to seach every file in a directory for a string, and then output each line that contained that string, how would you do it?

in *nix it's just:

grep string path/expression

or, if that seems obscure (which it isn't), how about just copying a file? in windows you have to click, ctrl-c, find where you want it go, ctrl-v. it depends of course, but sometimes that requires a lot of clicking through the folders. in *nix it's just:

cp source location

use findstr it does the same thing as grep

and to copy files, use "copy <source> <dest>" except in windows you do not have to mount a remote share or a cdrom to be able to copy file from it.

 

[Armitage]

Ok, here's an example from some work I was doing yesterday afternoon of the command line being far more powerful.

I think I have a problem with a slew rate assignment in a code I work with. So, as a starting point, I want to see every assignment to a variable named slew_rate in the whole directory tree. Except it may be spelled a variety of ways:
slewrate
slew_rate
SlewRate
SLEWRATE
Slewing_Rate
SlewRate1
Slew_Rate2
slwrate
etc....

I don't want to see stuff like

MaxSlewRate
Slew_Rate_Max

I only want to see assignments, so there should be an '=' following the variable (with some or no whitespace), and the variable should be at the beginning of the line (potentially with some amount of whitespace)
I also want to see the two lines preceeding each of these matches, for possible comments, and one line following for longer assignments.

I want to see the filename/path and line number for each match also.

How do I do this:

> grep -rin -B2 -A1 "^[ \t]*/<sl[e]?w[-]?rate[0-9]?[\t]*=" base_code_dir

Now I'm sure all you windows people are looking at this as a poster child for why you don't want anything to do with a command line.
But think about it. This took me maybe 2 or 3 minutes to write & execute to accomplish everything that I described above. Sure, it took me awhile to learn grep & regular expressions. But now it's easy.
How would you do this in windows?
If you have a nice GUI IDE that could do this for you, how much did it cost? How well would it work over a relatively slow network connection to a machine about 1000 miles away?
What was your learning curve to accomplish this on that IDE?

Now I look at these results and see that I'm really interested in SlewRate1, but I want 4 lines of following context. I hit the up arrow key, and edit the previous line:

> grep -rn -B2 -A3 "^[ \t]*/<SlewRate1[\t]*=" base_code_dir

Now I see that what I really need to see is the assignments to variables called azimuth_rate and elevation_rate in the file base_code_dir/tools/read_sensors.cc

> grep -n -B2 -A1 "^[ \t]*/<(azimuth_rate|elevation_rate)[ \t]*=" base_code_dir/tools/read_sensors.cc

Also note that I can send these lines to other developers, and if they know regular expressions, they know exactly what I'm doing. So, If I want to consult with somebody else on the azimuth_rate assignment, I e-mail them the last regex, and my results, and they can run it against their code tree for comparison. How long would it take to communicate your windows method for doing this to somebody else?

Again, their is certainly a relatively steep learning curve. But once you climb it, it has tremendous power.