Why do you guys bother with PC gaming?

[jalo2]

i admit the tone of my post was semi-trollish but my purpose was to get responses to justify my interest in building a new rig for gaming. i've been playing consoles for 4 years but was a PC gamer for like 15 before that. i wanted to see if pc gaming was still great and worth it and why i shouldn't just stick to console gaming.

the posts were convincing and after much research i've built a great rig that well get me back into pc gaming. really looking forward to it, except for one thing: looks like a lot of those awesome military themed RTS games haven't been developed in years. i used to love Company of Heroes and Total War series but i don't see anything new since then.

edit: oh wait, i see there is a Shogun 2. ok i'm happy again.

 

[plonk420]

my main interest is graphics. and i'm willing to pay for it.

from sprawling worlds in WoW, to unit count madness in SupCom 1 and SC2 and Civ5

to the beginnings of global illumination on Crysis 2...

"quasi-realtime radiosity" on BF3

and that's not even getting to the demoscene ...

raytracing(?) in "photon race 2" http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=51443

whatever the hell this "elevated" madness is in 64k: http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=52938

particle simulation/fluid dynamics in "numb res" http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=56900 and "agenda circling forth" http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=54603
with some cool, highly technical write ups on the process at http://directtovideo.wordpress.com

not to mention native 1080p (and possibly being able to capture it) at my choice of antialiasing, and, on occasion, 60fps.

and on the subject of capping 1080p, being able to encode it (or rip and transcode (possibly post-processing) my favorite blu-ray) with x264...

 

[taltamir]

If we're talking just compatibility then PC wins but PS3 is only missing GCN/Wii/DS/PSP/Win32 and a few unpopular consoles (3DO/CDi) no one bothered to port emulators to PS3 Linux/jailbroken GameOS. If we're going by backwards compatibility its close. A BC PS3 can almost any game with the words Playstation on the box while a PC can play almost any game with the words 100% IBM PC compatible/Windows on the box.

PS3 with linux had access to a lot of emulators. But sony removed linux.
And while the US government made an exclusion for jailbreaking your iphone (it is currently perfectly legal to do), last I checked jailbreaking the PS3 was a crime.

Your entire argument omitted the most important aspect of video gaming: Gameplay is more important than graphics.

Actually he included mouse and keyboard option there, which provides better gameplay.
Also more robuts interfaces and better save schemes.

 

[RussianSensation]

Actually he included mouse and keyboard option there, which provides better gameplay. Also more robuts interfaces and better save schemes.

Mouse and keyboard is worse for:

- Racing games
- Action adventure/platform/hack and slash games (for example Batman sucks with a mouse and keyboard)
- Fighting games
- Sports games

^ Which actually happen to be 4 genres on the PC that are overall inferior to consoles imo.

Being able to save anywhere in a game isn't always superior. In fact, it often makes most PC games easier and takes strategic planning of resources less important before key battles, because you know, you can save any time (like when you have the most ammo).

 

[taltamir]

Mouse and keyboard is worse for:

1. That is your opinion with which I disagree, I think mouse and keyboard are always better.
2. It doesn't doesn't matter if mouse and keyboard are worse for same games because a PC lets you use mouse/keyboard OR a game controller, as we said only about 20 times.

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Xbox...0429769&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Wireless-...0429753&sr=8-1

With PC you get to CHOOSE whether to use joystick, controller, mouse/keyboard, trackball, whatever.
Console lets you use one and ONLY one method of input

 

[jordanecmusic]

jordanecmusic, its funny that you listed all those advantages yet the pc you actually have cant even do most of those things and would be no better than a console in most ways. and I really doubt your cpu is any better than what the consoles use at all and is probably worse. a console will certainly run GTA 4, Prototype and some other games better than what your old dual core cpu can do. heck your cpu barley even meets minimum requirements for many newer games.

your gt240 may be slightly better than the consoles gpu but the pc has much more overhead to deal with so the difference are probably fairly small. you will certainly not be running many newer games above medium and good luck running them at high res.

and 2gb of system ram is NOT enough to even play some newer games. heck that was not enough ram 3 years ago for games like Clear Sky and Warhead unless you like some hitching now and again. I honestly would take a console over your pc for a much more consistent experience with similar performance in many cases.

my cpu runs gta4 at a decent framerate at a higher resolution, textures, and framerate. I could over clock it to run better but i don't feel that I need to yet. Prototype just sucked. I deleted it because it was just akward and jerky gameplay.

note that consoles sometimes render 3-9 frames before actually showing it on screen which causes the lag between the controller and the console. PC's can do that too...but why would you want to?

One more thing. You don't always need to play the game on highest settings. I can run left 4 dead 2 at 8xcsaa, 16xaf, everything else at highest and vsync off and get a 60fps average (thank you source for being so optimized). I run crysis 2 on low and not medium because not only does it look amazing at low, but I want the extra frames. Now when I get a new PC, that will be a different story.

Counterstrike is still the most known played PC game to date, just letting you know.

 

[jordanecmusic]

Mouse and keyboard is worse for:

- Racing games
- Action adventure/platform/hack and slash games (for example Batman sucks with a mouse and keyboard)
- Fighting games
- Sports games

^ Which actually happen to be 4 genres on the PC that are overall inferior to consoles imo.

Being able to save anywhere in a game isn't always superior. In fact, it often makes most PC games easier and takes strategic planning of resources less important before key battles, because you know, you can save any time (like when you have the most ammo).

Hey you! You with the console? If you really want to argue that point...its called connecting a controller to the pc and BAM! Problem solved! Or you can use a Steering Wheel for racing games, an arcade stick for fighting games, and a 360 controller for the rest.

but Mouse and Keyboard remain key for FPS's and Left 4 Dead

 

[jordanecmusic]

Your entire argument omitted the most important aspect of video gaming: Gameplay is more important than graphics.

I would much rather play Limbo, Super Meatboy or Braid on the PC than Alien vs. Predator or I'd much rather play Half Life 2 over Battlefield 3's single-player campaign. Look up the graphics of the 3 PC games I just listed.

The best games ever made (on consoles and PCs) actually do not have the best graphics. I can think of at least 20 videogames that I like more than Doom 3 or Quake 4, and yet they have inferior graphics.

People buy console games despite their inferior graphics, because they are fun to play. And, this is especially true if you enjoy playing specific genres that are better represented on consoles than on the PC. If you like racing games more than MMOs, then you'd much rather buy Forza 4 or Gran Turismo 5 over WOW.

It all comes down to what type of games you like and if you like to play with friends or alone on a tiny screen or on a large screen.

If there is a game that is available on both the PC and console, of course the PC version is almost always more preferable. What about games that you can't buy on the PC? Are they crappy because they don't have 4AA or 16AF or because they can't run at native 1080P?

Games like Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time or original Starcraft are a masterpiece compared to some garbage like Duke Nukem Forever or Kane & Lynch 2. Graphics alone don't make for a good game.



I max out 2GB of Ram just browsing the Internet....and I find that amount not enough for every day work.

Secondly, 1440x900 resolution on a 1080P LCD looks horrible unless you have 1:1 TV scaling (i.e., for example, on my Westy when I reduce resolution, it automatically scales the image to take up less pixels, but I am no longer viewing a full 37 inch image). Otherwise, the non-native LCD resolution produces blurring and image quality artefacts.

My screen is a 19in Dell monitor that its max is 1440x900. Its best for me when Im playing left 4 dead 2 because my reaction timing is godly. Lets see you get that realism expert achievement buddy!

Also AVP2>Modern AVP

 

[RussianSensation]

Hey you! You with the console? If you really want to argue that point...its called connecting a controller to the pc and BAM! Problem solved! Or you can use a Steering Wheel for racing games, an arcade stick for fighting games, and a 360 controller for the rest.

but Mouse and Keyboard remain key for FPS's and Left 4 Dead

My point about the controller was primarily in response to taltamir's universal statement that a mouse and a keyboard provides for better gaming experience. Almost no one who plays racing, sports or fighting games would agree with this.

Of course I realize that you can buy a controller / racing wheel for the PC too. I just disagree that keyboard and mouse is universally better. It's better for certain genres, but not universally better.

Also, if you read this thread, you would have seen that almost everyone here agrees that for FPS, strategy, MMOs, flight sims the PC with its mouse/keyboard is preferable. However, what makes no sense here is the absolute dismissal of any console game as great, which is just laughable. To imply that not a single console game warrants a 9 or 10/10 is absurd! Only a PC fanboy or a closed minded gamer who only plays FPS and strategy games would imply something as ridiculous as the idea that consoles don't have any great games. For PC gamer only, it's probably because their are far more interested in genres that just happen to be better on the PC, which is understandable.

So what does that make millions of console owners around the world? Stupid? I think a lot of PC gamers are way too close minded to be honest. FPS games is just 1 genre. L4D2 is nowhere near as monumental as Super Mario 64 that created the foundation for 3D platformers, as Goldeneye 64, that created the foundation for FPS multi-player games on consoles, or Chrono Trigger and Zelda, which pretty much reinvented the RPG genre. Gran Turismo became the benchmark for a simulation style racing game.

If L4D series was never invented, it would have little impact on the gaming world. It's a fun game but it hardly innovated/re-invented the genre. If you remove those other games, it would have a major impact on game development today for their respective genres.

My screen is a 19in Dell monitor that its max is 1440x900. Its best for me when Im playing left 4 dead 2 because my reaction timing is godly. Lets see you get that realism expert achievement buddy!

Right, but if you want to play a game with 2-3 of your buddies, how is that going to work out for you on a 19 inch screen?

Console gaming allows for social/interactive gaming experience. Something the PC fails at completely, unless you happen to have 3-4 PCs in your basement for all of your friends. That's totally unrealistic for most people. I am not about to drop $4000 on PCs.

Consoles brought gaming to the living room. Something most PC gamers forget. You know like having beers with your buddies and playing a FPS death match or a sports game on a 60 inch plasma TV? That's a lot of fun for many people. What about party or music games you can enjoy playing together with your gf? PC fails at those too.

 

[micrometers]

It's fun building stuff.

As for the games themselves, well, actually, I like blizzard games quite a bit and they're pc only.

 

[iCyborg]

Mouse and keyboard is worse for:

- Racing games
- Action adventure/platform/hack and slash games (for example Batman sucks with a mouse and keyboard)
- Fighting games
- Sports games

I don't play much of the latter 3, but I do play racing sims, and I would disagree about that. if the game supports mouse for steering (and not all/many do), as an input device it's more accurate than even a proper steering wheel (and I have G25). Of course, digital buttons against pedals will be a disadvantage against a wheel for throttle/brakes, but compared to a gamepad, I would go mouse+kb, there are plenty very fast guys with M+KB, rarely do I run into someone using a gamepad in the online sim world...

 

[taltamir]

My point about the controller was primarily in response to taltamir's universal statement that a mouse and a keyboard provides for better gaming experience.

No it wasn't. You bashed jordanecmusic and I countered with "hey, he did discuss features not just graphics, like mouse/keyboards are a feature"

I LATER made the asseriton that mouse/keyboard are superior but I ALWAYS prefaced it as:
1. My opinion and not an objective fact
2. Irrelevant because a PC lets you use joystick, console controller, mouse/keyboard, etc. Console refuses to allow mouse/keyboard (despite there being no technical limitation preventing it)

 

[RussianSensation]

I don't play much of the latter 3, but I do play racing sims, and I would disagree about that. if the game supports mouse for steering (and not all/many do), as an input device it's more accurate than even a proper steering wheel (and I have G25). Of course, digital buttons against pedals will be a disadvantage against a wheel for throttle/brakes, but compared to a gamepad, I would go mouse+kb, there are plenty very fast guys with M+KB, rarely do I run into someone using a gamepad in the online sim world...

Hold on, you steer the car with a mouse? That's got to be the least intuitive way to play a racing game. But to each his own.

Also, the argument isn't just about controls. By not spending an extra $250-300 on a console, you basically deny yourself the ability to play the excellent Forza and Gran Turismo, and decent Project Gotham Racing series. Yes, we have Dirt and NFS series on the PC, but missing out on those 2 star franchisees on consoles is a big miss for many racing fans.

You know how WOW fans pay $15 a month x 6 years to play it because they enjoy it? Some people will pay $250-300 for a console just to play those extra 2-3 key games (that the PC simply doesn't have) they really enjoy in a specific genre they like. It's not unusual for people to buy a PS3 just for GT5 or just for Metal Gear Solid.

Would I buy a PC just for Dirt 2/3 or NFS? No way because I can play those on the console too. Would I build a PC just to play Starcraft 2? Yes, because it's a PC exclusive and I like the strategy genre.

My point this entire thread is that consoles have certain games in specific genres that are either as good or better than on the PC despite having inferior graphics. That's one of the reasons people still buy consoles, not to mention no BSOD, no driver updates, a more simplistic gaming interface, no requirement to spend $$ on hardware upgrades, etc.

A lot of my friends used to play PC games when they were younger. But now, a lot of them, even despite being able to easily afford PC towers, just want to chill back and play a quick 30 min to 1 hour game on a console. They prefer the simplicity and gaming on a couch in front of a large TV. It's a totally different experience (of course some PC gamers also have the option of buying a large TV for PC games ).

In the end, I think it all comes down to what types of games you enjoy most, not the controls, not the graphics. Having a keyboard and mouse for FPS games helps, but ultimately you play FPS games on the PC because they are just better on the PC. A poorly made FPS game is still lousy even with a keyboard and mouse.

 

[micrometers]

FPS games are better with mouse/kb.

Until you realize that it's all a waste of time anyways. And HALO is arguably better than any shooter on the PC in terms of atmosphere.

The funny thing is that a lot of the *benchmark* games like Metro2033 and Crysis actually don't review that well as actual games. They push the technical limits, but in terms of gameplay kind of fail. Which is why PC gaming is really about on-par with pimping out the rims of your Honda.

 

[pw38]

Also, the argument isn't just about controls. By not spending an extra $250-300 on a console, you basically deny yourself the ability to play the excellent Forza and Gran Turismo, and decent Project Gotham Racing series. Yes, we have Dirt and NFS series on the PC, but missing out on those 2 star franchisees on consoles is a big miss for many racing fans.

You know how WOW fans pay $15 a month x 6 years to play it because they enjoy it? Some people will pay $250-300 for a console just to play those extra 2-3 key games (that the PC simply doesn't have) they really enjoy in a specific genre they like. It's not unusual for people to buy a PS3 just for GT5 or just for Metal Gear Solid.

Would I buy a PC just for Dirt 2/3 or NFS? No way because I can play those on the console too. Would I build a PC just to play Starcraft 2? Yes, because it's a PC exclusive and I like the strategy genre.

I bought a PS3 just for the Sony games. I also would rather play Dirt 3 on the PC and would build one because of it knowing everything else it allows me to do. A console can come close in some respects but not all the way. In that case if you're a racing fan building a PC for racing games is superior to just buying a console and slapping it on your hdtv. I guess I'm saying I would buy a PC just for Dirt 3 or NFS.

Also, being someone who put well over 10k hrs into PGR2 on the Xbox I take exception to your assertion that the PGR series is merely "decent". Of course I could go all night on how the series was damaged with the removal of Kudos determining your level ranking but that's for another night. PGR3 and 4, while very good in their own right, were a drop off from 2. Long live PGR2, the best Live game ever made.

 

[iCyborg]

Hold on, you steer the car with a mouse? That's got to be the least intuitive way to play a racing game. But to each his own.

Also, the argument isn't just about controls. By not spending an extra $250-300 on a console, you basically deny yourself the ability to play the excellent Forza and Gran Turismo, and decent Project Gotham Racing series. Yes, we have Dirt and NFS series on the PC, but missing out on those 2 star franchisees on consoles is a big miss for many racing fans.

I play with Logitech G25. I'm not very good with mouse, but I never really put much effort (with a $250 wheel, why would I...). However, I can see other people being very fast and having some pretty hard WRs. And it does make sense, take a laser 2000dpi mouse, it's more accurate than a gear-with-cogs based steering wheel. Sure, it's more natural and fun using a wheel, but that's beside the point.
And why is it any less intuitive than a gamepad, or 'steering' your character in a FPS...

As for denying myself the games you mentioned, I don't play arcades and there are no good sims on console. I also hate gamepads with passion, and given the time I have for playing games, I really don't need to have many.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Gonna give the Op a bit of a sarcastic answer...

We have more money then brains

We can put up with higher energy costs

We don't mind messing around with system settings when one stupid game acts up and refuses to work right

We are hard headed and no matter how many issues a pc game can give us we will defend how much better pc gaming is then console gaming

This is not a troll post this is prob the answer you was hoping for coming to you from a 5 year vet of pc gaming and pc gaming only

 

[RussianSensation]

As for denying myself the games you mentioned, I don't play arcades and there are no good sims on console. I also hate gamepads with passion, and given the time I have for playing games, I really don't need to have many.

Fair enough. In your case then, the input controls are such a deal breaker, that it pretty much doesn't matter to you how good the game is, as you can't actually enjoy any type of gaming with a controller.

 

[cmdrdredd]

FPS games are better with mouse/kb.

Until you realize that it's all a waste of time anyways. And HALO is arguably better than any shooter on the PC in terms of atmosphere.

The funny thing is that a lot of the *benchmark* games like Metro2033 and Crysis actually don't review that well as actual games. They push the technical limits, but in terms of gameplay kind of fail. Which is why PC gaming is really about on-par with pimping out the rims of your Honda.

Ever hear of Bioshock? Started as a PC game...still technically is a PC game through and through...Atmosphere? Yeah we got that... Dead Space...yep same deal.

Oh ever hear of a little game called Half Life 2? Yeah I thought so... PC game buddy.

We can sit here and pick apart arguments all day. Thing is though, there's some games that are just plain better on PC. Crysis 2, Battlefield 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, Bioshock, Batman Arkjham Asylum and City are a few examples. I have every console currently available because there are games I cannot get on PC. Uncharted, Halo (but Halo is not that good in terms of a shooter. I am a Bungie fan ever since Marathon. Reserve judgement for Halo 4 until I see it by 343 studios.), Metal Gear, Zelda, Mario etc etc.

 

[tigersty1e]

FPS games are better with mouse/kb.

Until you realize that it's all a waste of time anyways. And HALO is arguably better than any shooter on the PC in terms of atmosphere.

The funny thing is that a lot of the *benchmark* games like Metro2033 and Crysis actually don't review that well as actual games. They push the technical limits, but in terms of gameplay kind of fail. Which is why PC gaming is really about on-par with pimping out the rims of your Honda.

halo? are you serious dude? that game was good for its time, but definitely not better than any other shooter on any console. i say this because any quality shooter released on the console is also released on the pc in the last 5-6 years.

Metro 2033, Crysis, Stalker, original FEAR, Far Cry, COD 1 and 2 were great games.

Some of the best console franchises started out as pc games.

 

[SirPauly]

Halo was originally going to be a PC title - and was looking forward to it -- 'till Microsoft changed-up to build momentum for the X-box, sadly!

 

[cmdrdredd]

Halo was originally going to be a PC title - and was looking forward to it -- 'till Microsoft changed-up to build momentum for the X-box, sadly!

Halo was going to be a squad based online third person action game/shooter. Then it turned into an FPS once Microsoft acquired Bungie Studios. Anyway, I think what they did with the game on the Xbox was excellent. It started the whole Console FPS craze that still goes on today. I thought Halo was a great game at the time. Still do. Now I don't compare it to some PC shooters because it was not made for PC at release, but it has a pretty good universe, backstory, and mythos.

It's iconic.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

i don't bother with consoles. I can afford a decent gaming rig

 

[taltamir]

you guys do know that halo 1 and 2 are available on PC right?
MS keeps the latest title an xbox exlusive for a little while to drum up xbox business because given the CHOICE people will prefer to buy it on a PC. Then they later release it on Windows.

Also I never got the craze about Halo

 

[cmdrdredd]

i don't bother with consoles. I can afford a decent gaming rig

ignorant