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Why do we hate Putin again?

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Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,246
1,205
136
He's a dictator that has his critics routinely killed, he has stolen billions of dollars from the country he leads, he has repeatedly invaded his neighbors, he oppresses gay people for being gay, and he's actively seeking to undermine the current international order.

I'm frankly baffled as to why anyone WOULDN'T hate that thug. One of the most revealing things about just how sick partisanship is in America is the sudden warming to Putin by conservatives.
This.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,859
900
126
Tell you what, once you develop as something beyond a one-dimensional kids cartoon character you'll get recognized as such.
Still here and still making a fool and a liar out of yourself again as usual? Tst..tst...tst... so pathetic. Troll harder.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,876
460
126
So I watched some of that Frontline documentary.

And it is just a bunch of smoke. There likely is corruption going on...but corruption goes on everywhere, and in any event, corruption is an internal Russian matter.

The only way that this is relevant is if Putin is doing a whole series of "wag the dog" to stay in power. But that, again, denies that Russia has legit national interests and requires that these disputes are contrivances by Putin to create distracting dramas. Unlikely.

In contrast, China likely is using the SCS dispute as a nationalist drama to distract people from internal problems. You have to look objectively at the threat posed by a Ukraine in NATO to Russia (high) versus a South China Sea under international law (negligible).
Are you claiming that journalists who write/say bad things about Putin only coincidentally fly off roofs, or that this is merely a legitimate national interest?
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
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Still here and still making a fool and a liar out of yourself again as usual? Tst..tst...tst... so pathetic. Troll harder.
Why u so set on proving every point I make? Can't you see it only makes you look worse?
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,421
127
106
In this regard, Obama may be closer to Trump than Clinton. He did not arm Ukraine, preferring instead to give Putin a bad name on the world stage and impose sanctions. Same with Syria. Obama will feign outrage and put in place sanctions to weaken and shame Russia, but he can't out and say that Russia has a valid point here since he would be crucified by the foreign policy community. So he gives lip service through sanctions while effectively tolerating Russia's actions.
It's really more of the international business interests of the United States at this point. Regardless of who sits in the oval office, I don't think you're going to see a huge foreign policy change towards Russia or Syria. I was actually reading an article the other day regarding how much military hardware Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and the UAE all buy from the United States in a single year. It's pretty staggering. So there's a lot at play with Russia's gamble in Syria. Not only is it about diplomatically shoring up its allies, which Russia has been a longtime ally of Syria (they buy a lot of Russia military hardware), it's also an arms show to demonstrate Russian military capabilities in comparison to the US. In other words, Russia wants the world to see that their stuff is actually competitive again.
 

evident

Lifer
Apr 5, 2005
11,617
161
106
I'm not even sure why this is a partisan issue or question. Seems like trumpees are weak on defense.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
894
126
Are you claiming that journalists who write/say bad things about Putin only coincidentally fly off roofs, or that this is merely a legitimate national interest?
Flying off roofs is a national past time. So is radiation poisoning, or being gunned down as a city garbage truck drives buy that is not scheduled to be in the area that just happens to block the camera.

Russia is an amazing place.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,859
900
126
I'm sure you believe that's supposed to prove you're not a simpleton.
I ain't too smart I reckon but at least no one is calling me a troll and a liar like they did to you, multiple times, not just from a few posters here and there but many (and a few of them are here for many many years) and at least one is an Elite member. Shall I post their posts about you, in their own words AGAIN so you can be shame and humiliate in public by me? :D So what does that say about you? LOL.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I ain't too smart I reckon but at least no one is calling me a troll and a liar like they did to you, multiple times, not just from a few posters here and there but many (and a few of them are here for many many years) and at least one is an Elite member. Shall I post their posts about you, in their own words AGAIN so you can be shame and humiliate in public by me? :D So what does that say about you? LOL.
That rather neatly explains the need to appeal to "authority", but keep in mind they were specifically chosen for sharing the opinion of an idiot.

Actually on second thought, keep in mind is particularly ineffective advice here.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
16,859
900
126
That rather neatly explains the need to appeal to "authority", but keep in mind they were specifically chosen for sharing the opinion of an idiot.

Actually on second thought, keep in mind is particularly ineffective advice here.
Well, who said "4rd grade english" and "Why u so set"? It was you, in your own words. Idiot you say? Take a closer look at the mirror. LOL.

Troll harder troll, lie better liar.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Well, who said "4rd grade english" and "Why u so set"? It was you, in your own words. Idiot you say? Take a closer look at the mirror. LOL.

Troll harder troll, lie better liar.
I'm sure the authorities mentioned love the fact that your sorts value their opinion the most.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Are you claiming that journalists who write/say bad things about Putin only coincidentally fly off roofs, or that this is merely a legitimate national interest?
I'm saying that fixating on this little tragedy and other petty demonizations obscures the larger picture.

Essentially, I am not interested in a confrontation with Russia. I don't think any Americans really are, outside of the elite Washington people who have an institutional reason for wanting war. I'm not saying that Putin is a good person, I'm just saying that asking our military men and women to fight and die for the sake of the Baltic states just doesn't make sense from a strategic or moral perspective.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,348
4,625
136
I'm saying that fixating on this little tragedy and other petty demonizations obscures the larger picture.

Essentially, I am not interested in a confrontation with Russia. I don't think any Americans really are, outside of the elite Washington people who have an institutional reason for wanting war. I'm not saying that Putin is a good person, I'm just saying that asking our military men and women to fight and die for the sake of the Baltic states just doesn't make sense from a strategic or moral perspective.
Yea, cause if we had united when germany moved into Poland in 1939 or
annexed Austria in 1938, WW2 would have been what?

As a leader you can build or destroy
As a leader you can bring people together or you can divide them.

I know what kind Putin is.

We gotta stand together vs. those who would divide us if given the chance. Dont bow down. Never surrender.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Yea, cause if we had united when germany moved into Poland in 1939 or
annexed Austria in 1938, WW2 would have been what?

As a leader you can build or destroy
As a leader you can bring people together or you can divide them.

I know what kind Putin is.

We gotta stand together vs. those who would divide us if given the chance. Dont bow down. Never surrender.
Pat Buchanan has made credible arguments that Churchill was reckless in extending a guarantee to Poland that he could not enforce. Not saying that Hitler's Germany was any good, but WWII also destroyed British power which had profound consequences for its people. And, for that matter, after WWII we have to deal with the Soviet Union. Truman himself said that maybe it would have been better to sit it out and let the Germans and Soviets fight it out themselves.

Which means that there is a good chance that the Baltic States in NATO is an overextension which could ultimately bring us in America great harm for negligible strategic benefit. Arrogant Americans always use the Munich analogy. Bush W used Munich in justifying Iraq, which has harmed US power overall. The USA cannot afford another Iraq-like catastrophe.

The likely winner of a Russia-America showdown would be China. We take for granted the American presence in Japan, for instance. If America were weakened by a Russia conflict, it is conceivable that we could be pushed back in the Pacific to Hawaii or even further.
 
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dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,632
72
91
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-poll-idUSKBN14X2IF

"Americans are more concerned than they were before the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign began about the potential threat Russia poses to the country, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Friday.

The Jan. 9-12 survey found that 82 percent of American adults, including 84 percent of Democrats and 82 percent of Republicans, described Russia as a general "threat" to the United States. That's up from 76 percent in March 2015 when the same questions were asked.

The increased concern comes after a brutal election season during which Democrats and others raised questions about President-elect Donald Trump's financial ties to Russia and the U.S. intelligence community accused Russia of engaging in cyber attacks during the election"



You've got to wonder how Putin was expecting to get away with all the skullduggery that he has been pulling the last number of years. Whether you like or fear Putin ... his standing within this country has fallen and he has (in a way) become enemy #1. In a way he has failed ...
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
906
106
Yes, what a spectacular failure Putin has become. He has upset so many democrats, and they do not like him at all, even less so than they used to. All he got for it was control of the next US president, control over Syria, territorial control of Crimea and the imminent removal on sanctions on his government.


He's playing checkers, while the US gov is obviously playing chess. Soon they will put his queen in check.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
Yes, what a spectacular failure Putin has become. He has upset so many democrats, and they do not like him at all, even less so than they used to. All he got for it was control of the next US president, control over Syria, territorial control of Crimea and the imminent removal on sanctions on his government.


He's playing checkers, while the US gov is obviously playing chess. Soon they will put his queen in check.
LOL, yeah that guy demonstrates the myopia of Americans, who act like only their opinion matters.

But also, while Putin has managed with the hand he's been given, Obama and the EU gave him that hand. IE, talk of NATO membership for Ukraine was fking with Putin and kept him distracted from other issues. If you're not on offense, you're on defense. You can imagine in another arrangement how it could be a problem if Putin were verging on an alliance with Germany, and talk were of Germany leaving NATO.

So on that grounds it might make sense, because otherwise he'd be threatening the balance of power in Europe.

Right now with Putin as the boogeyman, Europe stays united. NATO's express purpose was to keep the French and Germans allied, the Germans down, and the Russians out. The French opposed the uniting of Germany. You can imagine that in an alternate universe you might see tensions rising between Germany and France again.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
14,348
4,625
136
..So on that grounds it might make sense, because otherwise he'd be threatening the balance of power in Europe.
What are you talking about? He *is* threatning the balance of power in Europe, funding disruptive efforts all over the map. One can only hope that in the wake of brexit and Trump that we get our shit togehter and shut down this pre-spetsnaz society destabilizing warfare. GB has been toppled. The US has been toppled. Next is France and Germany.

Step one : Flood the gates of Europe with refugees from Syria and fund the facists efforts in those countries to counter the flood and watch these countries burn from within.
Step two : Control the media, "fake news", control the narrative by exploiting this concept we call free speech and democracy.
Step three : Break up the EU.
Step four : Profit and Putin for King.

It is the same thing he did to the US with this past election, just, instead of a flow refugees, he mobilised specific segments allready inherent in the US populus.
 

desura

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2013
4,627
129
101
What are you talking about? He *is* threatning the balance of power in Europe, funding disruptive efforts all over the map. One can only hope that in the wake of brexit and Trump that we get our shit togehter and shut down this pre-spetsnaz society destabilizing warfare. GB has been toppled. The US has been toppled. Next is France and Germany.

Step one : Flood the gates of Europe with refugees from Syria and fund the facists efforts in those countries to counter the flood and watch these countries burn from within.
Step two : Control the media, "fake news", control the narrative by exploiting this concept we call free speech and democracy.
Step three : Break up the EU.
Step four : Profit and Putin for King.

It is the same thing he did to the US with this past election, just, instead of a flow refugees, he mobilised specific segments allready inherent in the US populus.
Mother of all paranoid conspiracy theories. Wow. This is what the left has devolved into: Alex Jones style conspiracy mongering.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
7,867
4,865
136
Mother of all paranoid conspiracy theories. Wow. This is what the left has devolved into: Alex Jones style conspiracy mongering.
I don't think it'd go that far, but there's no question that Putin is trying to manipulate elections to get more favorable leaders. It's that slight spin on the dice that could lead to winning a scenario down the road.
 

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