Why do many here hate religion ....

[cquark]

Originally posted by: oogabooga

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion.

problem is that your premises are wrong. evolution is far far far more factual then creationism could ever possibly hope to be.

Though i do not agree with the evolution as religion (it's one point i didn't agree with the poster) it isn't a solid basis of fact. As a scientific dogma evolution has a lot of holes.
It's a theory that is supported by infered observation. We've never observed evolution persay, but we've observed what can arguably be called the effects of it. It fits our current model and understanding of nature, but it can't be used and proven through expiriement. There is no universally accepted instance or proof that can be used to disclaim either evolution or creationism [i.e. no hey, the earth isn't flat since we just sailed around the world]

Actually, we have observed and reproduced the evolution of new characteristics and new species in both the lab and in nature.

However, we don't prove scientific theories, not even our most precisely verifified ones like general relativity. All we have are theories, like that of natural selection which explains evolution, that we haven't been able to disprove. We could disprove specific aspects of natural selection like common descent through the discovery of an example of an organism on Earth that didn't use DNA/RNA as its hereditary material and thus isn't related to the rest of us, but so far natural selection has passed all tests and predicted future discoveries like that of DNA. However, other theories to explain evolution, like Lamarck's theory of acquired characteristics have been disproven.

Creationism, on the other hand, isn't a scientific theory because there is no way to disprove it. It makes no predictions and offers no precise explanations about life that we can test. For this reason, it's absurd to teach creationism is any science class.

 

[biostud]

Because those who say they hold 'the truth' are lying.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: oogabooga

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion.

problem is that your premises are wrong. evolution is far far far more factual then creationism could ever possibly hope to be.

Though i do not agree with the evolution as religion (it's one point i didn't agree with the poster) it isn't a solid basis of fact. As a scientific dogma evolution has a lot of holes.
It's a theory that is supported by infered observation. We've never observed evolution persay, but we've observed what can arguably be called the effects of it. It fits our current model and understanding of nature, but it can't be used and proven through expiriement. There is no universally accepted instance or proof that can be used to disclaim either evolution or creationism [i.e. no hey, the earth isn't flat since we just sailed around the world]
Though there is much reproducability in that we can see its effect in many situations, but there are equally many situations where evolution just isn't accurate enough. I can see what pacmanfan means, but I don't agree with the extent he has taken it or the conclusion he has arrived to.

Evolution as Fact and Theory

Basically it says that we know enough that we can say that evolution happened. It cannot be denied. The only part of the question are the finer details of how it happened/happens. That part is theory. Evolution is Fact.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: virtuamike
I don't hate Christ. I just hate Christians.

Get off the ego trip. The Constitution was written on democratic morals and values, not Christian ones. If Jesus were born in the caveman era, I swear the Christians would try to patent fire too.

Are you forgetting that all of our forefathers were christian? IIRC. Of course it was on their mind during the founding of the US.

 

[yukichigai]

As has been mentioned in this thread, repeatedly, I think it boils down the followers, not the religion. On its face Christianity has nothing particularly offensive to it, and nothing any more troublesome for people than things found in most other religions. What people find offensive is the way the religion is used by many: as a means to single out groups or individuals as evil, and to rally hatred. While this is nothing new for any religion, it is most commonly seen in Christianity in the English-speaking world. People tend to associate this fanaticism(sp?) with the religion, not the asshat people doing the offensive stuff, and in turn develop a distaste or hatred for it.

One of the Devil's better tricks was getting good men to do evil (or stupid) things in the name of their creed.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: minendo

I can understand not believing something or not being religious, but what did Christ teach that causes so many to "hate" him.

It's not that I hate religion, it's the religous zealots I hate.

Amen brother preach on


I am surrounded by them @ work.


Sysadmin

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: MillionaireNextDoor
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today
Is Christians; who acknowledge Jesus with their lips
Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.
That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
-DC Talk

Btw, I am a devout Christian and I see this all too often in the news (catholic priest molesters, televangelist scammers, hypocrites, and zealot extremists like crusaders, conquistadors, cults, and Hitler, who illegitimize Christianity from its legitimacy) Be wary of these evil doers.

But that's not to say one should generalize and stereotype all based on the actions of a few; that's hypocrisy too. Evil begets evil.

Therefore, counterfeit Christians shouldn't go around deceiving people into thinking they're Christians, and for non-Christians, do not be deceived by these counterfeit Christians, acting like sons of Satan, the Great Deceiver of the truth, to lead others away from it.

Believe it or not, most Christians are doing all they can to keep to the gospel which teaches one how to live a life worth living.

Ah Jeeeezus give me a bucket I can puke in!!


Sysadmin

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: Excelsior
*chair, popcorn, beer*

I laughed so hard when I read that, I cried.

Thank you, Excelsior, you made my day.

:beer: Cheers! :beer:

 

[jyates]

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick

Originally posted by: UsandThem
I can understand not believing something or not being religious, but what did Christ teach that causes so many to "hate" him.

I can understand that many preachers, priest, and people twist his message, however if you sat down and read it yourself, what in there was so horrible?

The church, temple, mosque, etc has given christ, muhammad, Jehovah, etc a bad name.

Not the buildings.....it's about the people in the buildings....but you can't (unless you
want to be unreasonable) lump every single person into the mold that they give their
particular diety a bad name.

When people are talking about how terrible ALL followers are do they include people
like Mother Teresa and the like in their list of bad followers or what?

It seems that a fair amount of the posters on ATOT make blanket statements that cover
everyone that professes any kind of religious following no matter that we don't know
every person that is being commented on.

 

[yukichigai]

Erm, somehow this posted in the wrong thread. Nevermind.

 

[SandInMyShoes]

I believe that the U.S. of A. was NOT founded on Christianity, but on the common beliefs of the founding fathers, some of whom were not Christians. The things about "One nation under God", "In God we trust", etc, did not happen until later years. While living in this country, you have the freedom OF religion, but not FROM religion. Albeit, I do not think that religion in any form belongs in this country's government or civil services. It is then too easy for them to cross over into laws, which is terrible, although I see it happening. I know I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to the promotion of another religion, and I respect that other people feel the same way toward Christianity.[/quote]You should do some reading into the history of the formation of our Constitution, esp. the writings of Thomas Jefferson.[/quote]

I'll be the first to admit that I haven't read into it enough, but I think you misunderstood me. The point that I'm trying to make is that you can't shield yourself from other people's religious actions in public.

Originally posted by: oogabooga

Originally posted by: pacmanfan
Ok, I haven't the time to read this whole thread, but I'll touch on some of the things I've seen mentioned.

I do believe in, and try to follow, the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe it is everyone's right, and nothing should be forced/pushed upon them. If us Christians don't have what it takes to draw non-believers to us by our lifestyle, is pestering going to help? I think not.

I believe that the U.S. of A. was NOT founded on Christianity, but on the common beliefs of the founding fathers, some of whom were not Christians. The things about "One nation under God", "In God we trust", etc, did not happen until later years. While living in this country, you have the freedom OF religion, but not FROM religion. Albeit, I do not think that religion in any form belongs in this country's government or civil services. It is then too easy for them to cross over into laws, which is terrible, although I see it happening. I know I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to the promotion of another religion, and I respect that other people feel the same way toward Christianity.

Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion. If you're going to teach religion, fairly present all sides, please! Problem: there are so many religions, 99% of kids these days wouldn't have the brain capacity for the study of all of them. Let's just skip the incorporated study of religion altogether, kthx.


I accept that I am probably not right in all my viewpoints, and try to be objectively open-minded. Still, since I'm not in the right-leaning, Bush-voting, ACLU-hating sector, I feel my beliefs can't be too far off.
In fact, I know they're not.

hrmm, this hit it almost dead on for me.
I am 'Christian' but more accurately, I try to live my life accordingly to Jesus's Teachings, and I belive he died for me. I can see why it's the Zealots that turn people away, since even though I'm Christian, I get turned off by such people. Though I'd like everyone to be Christian, that is an individual choice between oneself and God. I can express how i view things, but I do not see a point to impress my views upon others, since they have just as much right to do so as i do. I have not forced my view upon any individual, though if someone wants to know what I think, I'll let them know.

Two quotes come to mind when I think of my religion
"The biggest deterent from the church today, are Christians"
"For Christians to act like christians" Ghandi when asked what it would take for India to become Christian.
I feel these are particularly poigniant that just got ignored by some zealots ferver to offend people.

I do not follow my faith blindly, and i pursue learning through academic and i guess 'spiritual' means. The Sciences have as much merit as any theolgy i study, and i'm fascinated by the stuff in physics, spcifically in relation to the universe. I also love technology (as my participation in Anandtech probally indicated) and cool things. A friend (who is not religious) once defined science as 'defining god's rules' which i found to be quite humorous and for me, accurate.

The things of this world are not inheirently evil [as they are arguably God given], I don't see why I should reframe from enjoying them. I think maybe every religious zealot should just have a :beer: and reevaluate if they truly believe what they preach.

Methinks what I was trying to say flew right over your head. I am only speaking in regards to my own self here, since I can't judge how you believe any more than the next guy, and that's not my place. I am pretty well bound to what I profess, as long as I continue to say I believe it.

I have principles to follow, and if I don't, I'm as hypocritical as a priest who preaches one thing to the congregation, and another to the kids, if you know what I mean. I believe that "to him that knoweth, and doeth it not, it is sin". If I'm professing to be a Christian, but know according to the Bible something I'm not doing that I should, or I'm doing something I shouldn't, I'd better watch out. By God's grace, I'm on the long hard road to perfection, and there's no easier way to get off track than by hypocrisy.

 

[Gurck]

My main beef with religion is that it requires belief in a false entity to work. A secondary beef is the "God Squad" type people. I can see how it has helped our species to form civilization and society and how it caters to our instinct to use our sentience to explain things. It's hard to say, but I suppose it was the only way to go about getting our species from cavedwelling solitary animals to (somewhat) civilized people. Most people aren't by nature logical, and so telling them that civilization was a better way to live wouldn't have worked. Additionally, civilized society takes small contributions from everybody in it; without the thought of a God watching their every move, more people might take the stance of "well, it's a minor part to play, I won't bother". We can see this mentality today in how many people feel about voting.

It is no longer necessary though. Most all of us would rather be a part of society and the creature comforts (like high speed internet access ) it provides than live off the land somewhere in the middle of the woods, unsure of when our next meal would be... We now posess the logical knowledge of what's best for us and religion is an instinct which, like our instinct to eat a lot of fatty & sugary foods, is not only no longer needed - but detrimental to us.

I have nothing against the majority of religious people - those who can think for themselves and aren't pushy about their faith. One of my closest friends is a devout Catholic. We have interesting conversations at times, but it's not a point of contention nor even comes up very often.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Because God never stops screwing me over.

Does He have a big one?

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion.

problem is that your premises are wrong. evolution is far far far more factual then creationism could ever possibly hope to be.

I think either one is quite possible. They should both be taught as theories, or neither taught. My opinion anyhow.

This is ridiculous. I hate it when advancement is held back due to religion. Evolution happened and continues to happen. Get used to it.

 

[Rainsford]

Personally I don't care if you believe in God, the easter bunny or Santa Claus...you are free to believe whatever you want TO THE EXTENT IT DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH MY RIGHT TO DO THE SAME. I'm well aware many (even most) religious people feel the same way, but there is an unfortunitly vocal minority (in the US it's mostly Christians), who think it's their God given right to try to make me believe what they do, or at the very least inject their beliefs into my life.

There are countless examples of religious people who aren't content to believe what they want and let others do the same. Those people, far from being "good Christians" totally miss the point of what Jesus taught and should be slapped down, hard, whenever possible. They give a bad name to religion and the millions of people who don't think their religion should be my religion.

Edit: And am I the only one who gets really pissed off when arguments like mine are turned into "Why do you hate Christ"? People like the OP are really missing the fvcking point here...you hear, but you sure as hell aren't listening.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Personally I don't care if you believe in God, the easter bunny or Santa Claus...you are free to believe whatever you want TO THE EXTENT IT DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH MY RIGHT TO DO THE SAME. I'm well aware many (even most) religious people feel the same way, but there is an unfortunitly vocal minority (in the US it's mostly Christians), who think it's their God given right to try to make me believe what they do, or at the very least inject their beliefs into my life.

couldn't agree more. it's the fundamentalists (from all religions) who turn people off.

it's like all that nonesense about posting the 10 Commandments outside the courthouse or in the classroom -- what about posting
the beatitudes instead?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: virtuamike
I don't hate Christ. I just hate Christians.

Get off the ego trip. The Constitution was written on democratic morals and values, not Christian ones. If Jesus were born in the caveman era, I swear the Christians would try to patent fire too.

Are you forgetting that all of our forefathers were christian? IIRC. Of course it was on their mind during the founding of the US.

No we are not forgetting that because it isn't true!

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: virtuamike
I don't hate Christ. I just hate Christians.

Get off the ego trip. The Constitution was written on democratic morals and values, not Christian ones. If Jesus were born in the caveman era, I swear the Christians would try to patent fire too.

Are you forgetting that all of our forefathers were christian? IIRC. Of course it was on their mind during the founding of the US.

No we are not forgetting that because it isn't true!

I might be wrong (I'm not), but I thought that at least a majority of them were Deists (sp). certainly they were influenced by Christianity, but for many, it wasn't their religion.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: UsandThem

Originally posted by: Pandaren

Reply deleted - point already made 11,000 times.

 

[preslove]

Religion is just a social organizing tool/concept that proto-civilizations developed in order to start cooperating in groups. Religion set the ground rules that allowed the priest kings, chiefs, etc. to tell the hunter gatherer that he should succumb to the lower standard of living of a peasant and give up part of his grain to the community coffers. It told people how to act, who to give fealty to, who to kill, who to have sex with, who not to have sex with, what foods to eat (NO PORK!!!!!!!!). So far it is the only means we have found that our ancestors, starting around 5,000 years ago, used to lift small tribes of hunter-gatherers up to civilization (agriculture, written language, high art, and much more).

Then the idea/concept/tool of myths spread to different communities in the surrounding areas, helping to organize the different tribes. This is why themes such as a deity's resurrection have been around since Sumer. No religion less than 3,000 years old is original.

This means Christianity is just one of dozens of religions that all borrow different parts from each other, and not, in any way at all, objectively true. This also means that religion is an antiquated form of social organization that enlightenment thinking (who our founding fathers read and contributed to) sought to replace in the 18th century. Religion is old, non-rational, untrue, inefficient, and often times dangerous. Modernity is based on the rational ordering of society, not religion.

That being said, I don't hate religion, I just think it should be put in a museum, along with other artifacts of human history/evolution.

 

[jyates]

People would have you believe the founding fathers were a bunch
of non God believing fellows. Take a trip to Washington D.C. and read
some of their writings and here is a pretty neat webpage that isn't
far right or far left in their examination of the facts.

Let everyone look at the letters and writings and judge for themselves.

Text

 

[Pudgygiant]

What's that quote, "God's not so bad, but I hate his fans"? Hardcore christians have to be some of the most naive people on the planet. I'm not saying the religion is a bunch of bull, you have to figure that out for yourself, but these people would believe ANYTHING.

 

[Tinkerhell]

Originally posted by: XietyCOM
Because logic > religion.

"Faith is often the boast of the men who is too lazy to investigate."

- F. M. Knowles



By the way, I don't hate Christ. I hate people that try to convert others in every opportunity.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: Pudgygiant
What's that quote, "God's not so bad, but I hate his fans"? Hardcore christians have to be some of the most naive people on the planet. I'm not saying the religion is a bunch of bull, you have to figure that out for yourself, but these people would believe ANYTHING.

I think "God, save me from your followers" is what you're thinking of IIRC it's in Geekbabe's sig.

 

[Pudgygiant]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: Pudgygiant
What's that quote, "God's not so bad, but I hate his fans"? Hardcore christians have to be some of the most naive people on the planet. I'm not saying the religion is a bunch of bull, you have to figure that out for yourself, but these people would believe ANYTHING.

I think "God, save me from your followers" is what you're thinking of IIRC it's in Geekbabe's sig.

I've heard it both ways, but I didn't want to give the false pretense that I'm christian. Doesn't make it any less true though.