Alright, seriously... what happens if the Jehovah's Witnesses recruit more than 144,000? Who isn't going to heaven???
Ok, I haven't the time to read this whole thread, but I'll touch on some of the things I've seen mentioned.
I do believe in, and try to follow, the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe it is everyone's right, and nothing should be forced/pushed upon them. If us Christians don't have what it takes to draw non-believers to us by our lifestyle, is pestering going to help? I think not.
I believe that the U.S. of A. was NOT founded on Christianity, but on the common beliefs of the founding fathers, some of whom were not Christians. The things about "One nation under God", "In God we trust", etc, did not happen until later years. While living in this country, you have the freedom OF religion, but not FROM religion. Albeit, I do not think that religion in any form belongs in this country's government or civil services. It is then too easy for them to cross over into laws, which is terrible, although I see it happening. I know I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to the promotion of another religion, and I respect that other people feel the same way toward Christianity.
Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion. If you're going to teach religion, fairly present all sides, please! Problem: there are so many religions, 99% of kids these days wouldn't have the brain capacity for the study of all of them. Let's just skip the incorporated study of religion altogether, kthx.
I accept that I am probably not right in all my viewpoints, and try to be objectively open-minded. Still, since I'm not in the right-leaning, Bush-voting, ACLU-hating sector, I feel my beliefs can't be too far off.
In fact, I know they're not.
I do believe in, and try to follow, the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe it is everyone's right, and nothing should be forced/pushed upon them. If us Christians don't have what it takes to draw non-believers to us by our lifestyle, is pestering going to help? I think not.
I believe that the U.S. of A. was NOT founded on Christianity, but on the common beliefs of the founding fathers, some of whom were not Christians. The things about "One nation under God", "In God we trust", etc, did not happen until later years. While living in this country, you have the freedom OF religion, but not FROM religion. Albeit, I do not think that religion in any form belongs in this country's government or civil services. It is then too easy for them to cross over into laws, which is terrible, although I see it happening. I know I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to the promotion of another religion, and I respect that other people feel the same way toward Christianity.
Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion. If you're going to teach religion, fairly present all sides, please! Problem: there are so many religions, 99% of kids these days wouldn't have the brain capacity for the study of all of them. Let's just skip the incorporated study of religion altogether, kthx.
I accept that I am probably not right in all my viewpoints, and try to be objectively open-minded. Still, since I'm not in the right-leaning, Bush-voting, ACLU-hating sector, I feel my beliefs can't be too far off.
In fact, I know they're not.
Think of it, religion has done nothing but make people hate each other. Look back in history, all the wars were because of religion. People thinking their religion is better and trying to convert them to their religion and crap. Just think of it, if there was no religion, there wouldn't of been battles after battles and wars after wars with people dying just because they believe their religion will bring them to a happy place after life or something.
edmundoab
Diamond Member
You've pretty much answered it for me. Additionally, seeing the evangelists in action - how they've worked under the guise that they're doing something good with religion has pretty much turned me off.
Finally, in my early years, I suffered a lot while growing up. Prayed a lot for Christ to get me out of the hellhole that I was in. Nothing worked, so essentially, I lost faith.
both of my parents come from extremely Catholic families, but they themselves are agnostics -- they believe in god, but they don't go to church, and any morals that they impressed on my sister and I came from themselves, not from the bible or a bunch of priests. I mean, Jesus didn't go to church, so why should they?
before the age of 10, when we moved to the East Coast, my only experience with Church had been from spending summers with my dad's parents in Quebec -- they'd take my sister and I to French masses every Sunday, at a church where my uncle was the head priest. Since my sister and I can barely put a sentence together in French, we just sat there with our heads down, bored out of our minds.
when we moved to the east coast, we started going to Catholic school, so we did the whole first communion / confirmation thing, but it was more about going through the motions than anything else. thanks to the Jesuits, I'm more knowledgeable about Catholicism than most people who call themselves Catholic.
at the moment, I bounce between pagan and agnostic, depending on the day... I have no problems with any other religion, though. My only problem comes from religious people (this applies to people across the spectrum of faiths) who don't have the slightest idea about their faith and their bible, but use it to support every extremist, hateful idea that they can come up with to put down people who are different.
before the age of 10, when we moved to the East Coast, my only experience with Church had been from spending summers with my dad's parents in Quebec -- they'd take my sister and I to French masses every Sunday, at a church where my uncle was the head priest. Since my sister and I can barely put a sentence together in French, we just sat there with our heads down, bored out of our minds.
when we moved to the east coast, we started going to Catholic school, so we did the whole first communion / confirmation thing, but it was more about going through the motions than anything else. thanks to the Jesuits, I'm more knowledgeable about Catholicism than most people who call themselves Catholic.
at the moment, I bounce between pagan and agnostic, depending on the day... I have no problems with any other religion, though. My only problem comes from religious people (this applies to people across the spectrum of faiths) who don't have the slightest idea about their faith and their bible, but use it to support every extremist, hateful idea that they can come up with to put down people who are different.
I tend to think this way, but really, people would find another reason to kill each other over.(politics, race, ethnicity)
konakona
Diamond Member
- May 6, 2004
- 6,285
- 1
- 0
still doesnt change the general consensus (i wouldnt call it a 'fact' so i can stay politically correct) that religeon does more harm then good. its funny when those same christian zealots are pompously bashing muslims. religeon is a religeon is a religeon to me, you are no better. my somewhat limited experience tells me at least there are more muslims positively affected by their religeon than christians. again, this is only my first hand experience, sue me if you have to take it personally.
oogabooga
Diamond Member
- Jan 14, 2003
- 7,806
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: pacmanfan
Ok, I haven't the time to read this whole thread, but I'll touch on some of the things I've seen mentioned.
I do believe in, and try to follow, the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe it is everyone's right, and nothing should be forced/pushed upon them. If us Christians don't have what it takes to draw non-believers to us by our lifestyle, is pestering going to help? I think not.
I believe that the U.S. of A. was NOT founded on Christianity, but on the common beliefs of the founding fathers, some of whom were not Christians. The things about "One nation under God", "In God we trust", etc, did not happen until later years. While living in this country, you have the freedom OF religion, but not FROM religion. Albeit, I do not think that religion in any form belongs in this country's government or civil services. It is then too easy for them to cross over into laws, which is terrible, although I see it happening. I know I wouldn't want my tax dollars going to the promotion of another religion, and I respect that other people feel the same way toward Christianity.
Under the same token, I do not think evolution should be taught in schools. It is no more fact than creationism is, and is thus a religion. If you're going to teach religion, fairly present all sides, please! Problem: there are so many religions, 99% of kids these days wouldn't have the brain capacity for the study of all of them. Let's just skip the incorporated study of religion altogether, kthx.
I accept that I am probably not right in all my viewpoints, and try to be objectively open-minded. Still, since I'm not in the right-leaning, Bush-voting, ACLU-hating sector, I feel my beliefs can't be too far off.
In fact, I know they're not.
hrmm, this hit it almost dead on for me.
I am 'Christian' but more accurately, I try to live my life accordingly to Jesus's Teachings, and I belive he died for me. I can see why it's the Zealots that turn people away, since even though I'm Christian, I get turned off by such people. Though I'd like everyone to be Christian, that is an individual choice between oneself and God. I can express how i view things, but I do not see a point to impress my views upon others, since they have just as much right to do so as i do. I have not forced my view upon any individual, though if someone wants to know what I think, I'll let them know.
Two quotes come to mind when I think of my religion
"The biggest deterent from the church today, are Christians"
"For Christians to act like christians" Ghandi when asked what it would take for India to become Christian.
I feel these are particularly poigniant that just got ignored by some zealots ferver to offend people.
I do not follow my faith blindly, and i pursue learning through academic and i guess 'spiritual' means. The Sciences have as much merit as any theolgy i study, and i'm fascinated by the stuff in physics, spcifically in relation to the universe. I also love technology (as my participation in Anandtech probally indicated) and cool things. A friend (who is not religious) once defined science as 'defining god's rules' which i found to be quite humorous and for me, accurate.
The things of this world are not inheirently evil [as they are arguably God given], I don't see why I should reframe from enjoying them. I think maybe every religious zealot should just have a :beer: and reevaluate if they truly believe what they preach.
oogabooga
Diamond Member
- Jan 14, 2003
- 7,806
- 3
- 81
Though i do not agree with the evolution as religion (it's one point i didn't agree with the poster) it isn't a solid basis of fact. As a scientific dogma evolution has a lot of holes.
It's a theory that is supported by infered observation. We've never observed evolution persay, but we've observed what can arguably be called the effects of it. It fits our current model and understanding of nature, but it can't be used and proven through expiriement. There is no universally accepted instance or proof that can be used to disclaim either evolution or creationism [i.e. no hey, the earth isn't flat since we just sailed around the world]
Though there is much reproducability in that we can see its effect in many situations, but there are equally many situations where evolution just isn't accurate enough. I can see what pacmanfan means, but I don't agree with the extent he has taken it or the conclusion he has arrived to.
I think either one is quite possible. They should both be taught as theories, or neither taught. My opinion anyhow.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,785
- 6,345
- 126
The OP strayed from the original question before it was asked. Christ and Christianity are 2 completely different things. To equate Christianity with Christ as being hated reveals part of the problem with Religion in General. That is, that Believers/Followers of Religion exhalt themselves as somehow being equal with their preferred God(s)/Prophet/Guru/Whatevers and so hatred(or other negative feeling) towards them instantly apply to that which they Believe in. It is faulty Logic.
Christ tried to teach people how to interact with each other. The Religion(s) that formed around that Message have missed the point entirely in their Lust for Power and Self-Vindication.
Christ tried to teach people how to interact with each other. The Religion(s) that formed around that Message have missed the point entirely in their Lust for Power and Self-Vindication.
Absolutely correct.
In fact, I see people every day who are swayed by whoever comes to their door. One day they're Mormon, next day JW, next day Catholic. They don't even know the differences between them!
A friend of mine started an Aplogetics Ministry: Carm.org
A great place to research different religions, and realize how cultish they ALL are. The guy running that site is a Calvinist minister (The "Right Reverend Matthew J. Slick". I'm not kidding! He even named his daughter Grace Slick! :Q) but he's a VERY open minded guy, and VERY intelligent. You can't change his faith because he has it so deeply ingrained in his psyche, but he'll debate rationally without anger and without resorting to insults.
I'm an athiest myself, but I can respect true believers like him because he doesn't just believe, but he continues to learn and improve himself. He calls me his "pet heathen". LoL
As an athiest, do I hate Jesus? No. Was he the Christ? No. The muslims consider Jesus just another prophet. I think he was just a good religious leader, and that his "rebirth" was made up after his death to strengthen the belief in his teachings.
A Jewish friend laughs at Christians. He calls the religion very convenient: "Oops, I committed sin. Oh, well, all I have to do is ask forgiveness and it's all good!"
The Old Testament god was full of fire and fury, the New Testament god was loving and forgiving. Sooo... Which is it? And the Trinity is a joke as well. Other than the way any son is an aspect of his father, how can Jesus be Jehovah? Bleh.
"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today
Is Christians; who acknowledge Jesus with their lips
Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.
That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
-DC Talk
Btw, I am a devout Christian and I see this all too often in the news (catholic priest molesters, televangelist scammers, hypocrites, and zealot extremists like crusaders, conquistadors, cults, and Hitler, who illegitimize Christianity from its legitimacy) Be wary of these evil doers.
But that's not to say one should generalize and stereotype all based on the actions of a few; that's hypocrisy too. Evil begets evil.
Therefore, counterfeit Christians shouldn't go around deceiving people into thinking they're Christians, and for non-Christians, do not be deceived by these counterfeit Christians, acting like sons of Satan, the Great Deceiver of the truth, to lead others away from it.
Believe it or not, most Christians are doing all they can to keep to the gospel which teaches one how to live a life worth living.
Is Christians; who acknowledge Jesus with their lips
Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.
That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
-DC Talk
Btw, I am a devout Christian and I see this all too often in the news (catholic priest molesters, televangelist scammers, hypocrites, and zealot extremists like crusaders, conquistadors, cults, and Hitler, who illegitimize Christianity from its legitimacy) Be wary of these evil doers.
But that's not to say one should generalize and stereotype all based on the actions of a few; that's hypocrisy too. Evil begets evil.
Therefore, counterfeit Christians shouldn't go around deceiving people into thinking they're Christians, and for non-Christians, do not be deceived by these counterfeit Christians, acting like sons of Satan, the Great Deceiver of the truth, to lead others away from it.
Believe it or not, most Christians are doing all they can to keep to the gospel which teaches one how to live a life worth living.
All I've gotta say is, <insert large rant that won't change anyone elses beliefs>, and thats why I do jumping jacks in my boxer shorts.
You should do some reading into the history of the formation of our Constitution, esp. the writings of Thomas Jefferson.
:Q :Q
Wow!
:roll:
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