Why do conservatives...

[ThinClient]

What does the 1st Amendment actually say?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Now where exactly in that phrase to you see 'OMG no one is allowed to pray near a government sanctioned event'!!!

This is correct. Same goes for prayer in schools -it wasn't removed, it's simply unconstitutional to do it as a whole, thereby forcing non-religious people to participate in something that they oppose.

I think it's personally offensive if I see a cross or 10 commandments hanging in a court room, but I wouldn't demand someone take them down. I'd probably bitch a little bit, because fuck them, but I'd let it go pretty quickly.

 

[ThinClient]

In other words there are no atheist based charity hospitals that provide services to the poor and needy, so I should just stop asking?

This statement has already been debunked.

 

[Texashiker]

This statement has already been debunked.

You have provided no evidence to debunk anything.

 

[ThinClient]

You have provided no evidence to debunk anything.

You have provided no evidence to support your positive claim.

Besides, others have given you multiple reasons why your dumbass statement is logically flawed.

It's like you're trying to convince people that you are a moron.

 

[Matt1970]

Yep. You don't want to bother googling so it's simply easier for you to throw personal insults instead of educating yourself or simply resorting to "I don't know."

Yeah, that makes me want to help you understand.

Pretty typical for religiotards. Also, nice display of Christian be-attitudes.

How am I supposed to find that on Google? You said specifically "A family member of mine could have been saved through medical tech available today that was developed through stem cell research." I would at the very least need the ailment your family member had and when they died.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Atheists are not a group with an organization they donate to. Try to think.

I googled "atheist groups" and the first one that popped up asked for donations...but not for hospitals or our poor and needy...they want your money so they can sue the IRS for giving special treatment to churches who actually do support hospitals and our poor and needy...imagine that!

http://www.atheists.org/

 

[Matt1970]

I googled "atheist groups" and the first one that popped up asked for donations...but not for hospitals or our poor and needy...that want your money so they can sue the IRS...imagine that!

http://www.atheists.org/

Nice big DONATE button on the header.

 

[Texashiker]

Besides, others have given you multiple reasons why your dumbass statement is logically flawed.

Is that reason because atheist and liberals do not want to take responsibility for their actions, or rather their inaction?

Who helps the poor and needy?

It is certainly not liberals or atheist.

While christian groups setup soup kitchens, liberals try to shut them down.

 

[ThinClient]

How am I supposed to find that on Google? You said specifically "A family member of mine could have been saved through medical tech available today that was developed through stem cell research." I would at the very least need the ailment your family member had and when they died.

Your original statement was offensive enough to me that I make an effort to confound and befuddle you by providing just enough information to make you curious but not enough to give you any real personal details, so fuck you and your stupid point of view.

 

[boomerang]

liberals try to shut them down.

Well duh! Only because the salt content is too high in the food.

 

[ThinClient]

Is that reason because atheist and liberals do not want to take responsibility for their actions, or rather their inaction?

I don't know, I wouldn't presume to speak for others.

Who steps up help the poor and needy?

Those who have a humanistic compassion, empathy for their fellow man.

It is certainly not liberals or atheist.

Right, because there are no bleeding heart liberals, the term was made up just for fun and describes no one. Also, no atheist has ever helped another human being. It never happens!

While christian groups setup soup kitchens, liberals try to shut them down.

Are you a professional dumbass or just a gifted amateur?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I googled "atheist groups" and the first one that popped up asked for donations...but not for hospitals or our poor and needy...that want your money so they can sue the IRS for giving special treatment to churches who actually do support hospitals and our poor and needy...imagine that!

http://www.atheists.org/

Just throw out an estimate for me: What percentage of those identifying as atheist do you think donate to this, or any, specifically atheist group? What percentage of religious people do you think donate to their specific church?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Nice big DONATE button on the header.

I thought it was interesting that they're going to have their next convention in Salt Lake City.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Just throw out an estimate for me: What percentage of those identifying as atheist do you think donate to this, or any, specifically atheist group? What percentage of religious people do you think donate to their specific church?

Not seeing the relevance. Why do you ask?

 

[Vic]

I have an entire extended family that absolutely thinks and talks as described in the OP, not to mention most of the people in every church my folks have ever attended. Some of those people do have quibbles with this or that, but in the end their positions all come out about the same. If any of you think I'm bullshitting, I dare you to spend a few weeks in a small town in a red state.

Also note that the OP generalized conservatives, not Christians. Around my neck of the woods that can be a subtle distinction, but I know it isn't universally so.

Many fiscal conservatives like to pretend that the extremist christian right doesn't exist. But they have no issues pretending that all social liberals are extremist communist leftists.

 

[Texashiker]

Those who have a humanistic compassion, empathy for their fellow man.

When conservatives try to pass laws that would benefit all of society, they are demonized?

Right, because there are no bleeding heart liberals, the term was made up just for fun and describes no one. Also, no atheist has ever helped another human being. It never happens!

I dont always talk to obama voters, but when I do, I order a large coke and fries.

In other words, liberals big on talk but little on action.

 

[ThinClient]

When conservatives try to pass laws that would benefit all of society, they are demonized?

I don't know, you'll have to try REALLY HARD to avoid a blanket statement for once to cite a specific law for me to comment on.

I dont always talk to obama voters, but when I do, I order a large coke and fries.

In other words, liberals big on talk but little on action.

Nothing of what you said makes sense other than personal insults aimed toward an extremely large number of people with no justification whatsoever.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Not seeing the relevance. Why do you ask?

Moonbeam specifically said "Atheists are not a group with an organization they donate to," and it sounds like you read that as "there are no Atheist organizations one can donate to." But I think the context of what he was saying was that atheists aren't all part of an atheist organization in the same way religious people usually belong to a specific church. There's no unified atheist collective. So even if there is a specific atheist group asking for donations, they probably don't have the monetary support of some broad segment of the atheist population. Compare that to something like the Catholic church, where the majority of practicing members make some form of annual monetary donation, and it's easy to see why the Catholic church is able to fund ventures like hospitals more easily than a non-existent atheist collective.

 

[nehalem256]

Many fiscal conservatives like to pretend that the extremist christian right doesn't exist. But they have no issues pretending that all social liberals are extremist communist leftists.

Possibly because social liberal positions are designed to destroy the traditional family. A position pretty much straight from the Communist Manifesto?

 

[Vic]

Possibly because social liberal positions are designed to destroy the traditional family. A position pretty much straight from the Communist Manifesto?

No, douchebag, social liberal positions come from Locke, Jefferson, Thoreau, and Mill.

 

[Texashiker]

Nothing of what you said makes sense other than personal insults aimed toward an extremely large number of people with no justification whatsoever.

How many job training outreach programs do liberals and atheist do for homeless or other needy people?

Maybe do like some cities and just offer free bus tickets to the next town?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

want the US to be a theocracy?

They claim the US was founded by Christians for Christians.
They get angry about reverting the last change to the Pledge.
They get off on praying during legislative sessions, etc.
They consistently legislate and regulate their morality into the system (gay rights, abortions, etc).
Some will even go so far as to argue that the First Amendment only applies to a State sponsored Church, so we actually can pass explicitly religious laws/policies.

I feel like I had a few more examples, but I'm sure you get the idea. So, what's the deal?

Why do people such as yourself paint with such a wide brush? Moderate conservatives don't support or push any of your "issues"

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Moonbeam specifically said "Atheists are not a group with an organization they donate to," and it sounds like you read that as "there are no Atheist organizations one can donate to." But I think the context of what he was saying was that atheists aren't all part of an atheist organization in the same way religious people usually belong to a specific church. There's no unified atheist collective. So even if there is a specific atheist group asking for donations, they probably don't have the monetary support of some broad segment of the atheist population. Compare that to something like the Catholic church, where the majority of practicing members make some form of annual monetary donation, and it's easy to see why the Catholic church is able to fund ventures like hospitals more easily than a non-existent atheist collective.

The fact of the matter is that there are many atheist organizations (aka collectives) and many do take donations to further their cause. Churches take donations to further their cause as well...except I personally find their causes to be generally much more humanitarian. I find no relevance in regard to the amount of money collected...it's more a matter of what's done with the donations that defines the character of the organization.

 

[Vic]

Why do people such as yourself paint with such a wide brush? Moderate conservatives don't support or push any of your "issues"

But there's no such thing as a moderate liberal, right?

I see many conservatives post here every day with as a broad a brush as he's using. Where are you when that happens?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Most everyone I know is a Christian too, and none of them want a theocracy either
But that doesn't mean other Christians wouldn't
This grouping of Christians is kind of crazy to me, A Catholic, JW, or Mormon all have their different ideas how things should go
There's probably hundreds of separate groups who do live their lives in America under their own theocracy FDLS'ers for one
You got the Christian right (Mostly Protestant) screaming about Islam, and how horrible it is, just like they did about the Jews until people started waking up


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right

Now you get guys like Geo who spent his life up until recently, as a communist starting to warm up to these guys because he is scared of Muslims
The more people they get to think that way, sooner or later, someone going to decide this freedom is not worth it anymore.
Then you go back to the Christians having only the other Christians to point out as evil and the whole ball starts again

edit- I know you guys got the evangelists on your tv's everyday, Go watch for awhile ( I know,I know) the shit they spew to scare money out of the elderly and ignorant is nuts

It comes down to proper use of language. A theocracy is government run by religious leaders, and the government is subservient to a religion in all matters. That is what we have in some nations, which do have Islamic rule. There isn't an equivalent for Christianity since the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, and no the Vatican being the seat of the Catholic Church really doesn't count.

Now I'm sure someone can scour the internet and find someone who wants to establish a true Christian theocracy, but those would be an exceedingly small minority. What did happen though was a realization among some groups of Christians was that they had a voice by virtue of numbers in government if they became organized. At that time we had a conflation of religion and politics, which BTW is absolutely permitted. One cannot say "you are religious and organized and cannot participate". It may not be liked, but it's how things are. That does not constitute "theocracy" in any way whatsoever. They may desire things, but ultimately the courts decide what is permitted. It's the same with groups which wish to remove all public religious displays. They can petition, attempt to influence, lobby, etc.

BTW, they happen to be correct about the establishment of religion. The landmark ruling of the SCOTUS in 1947 regarding separation of church and state was indeed based on Jefferson. There is no explicit "separation", however it has been ruled based on opinions such as those given by Jefferson which led to the Establishment Clause as it's now interpreted. It's common for rulings to be based on opinion.

The fact is that the Brits had established the Anglican church centuries before which was supported by taxes and was effectively a religious arm of the British government and so had real power and control and did crush religious freedom. In that sense it was like the 3rd amendment, where the British could kick you out if they wanted to house the military.


Ultimately it comes down to how US citizens collectively wish things to be. A few can affect perspectives or aspects, but they remain a minority. I think you would be hard pressed to find any equivalent for the destruction of the Constitution and replacing it with the equivalent of the Iranian form of government. BTW, I don't care if Iran or any other nation is a theocracy if thats what the people want. Freedom is ultimately self determination.