Why do conservatives...

[schmuckley]

want the US to be a theocracy?

They claim the US was founded by Christians for Christians.
They get angry about reverting the last change to the Pledge.
They get off on praying during legislative sessions, etc.
They consistently legislate and regulate their morality into the system (gay rights, abortions, etc).
Some will even go so far as to argue that the First Amendment only applies to a State sponsored Church, so we actually can pass explicitly religious laws/policies.

I feel like I had a few more examples, but I'm sure you get the idea. So, what's the deal?

Because that's how it is.Now go warsh yourself.

The US WAS founded on biblical principles.
When they said "religion" they meant Christianity.
How would laws even be formed if not for the 10 commandments?
How would you know what's right and what's wrong?

 

[Vic]

Because that's how it is.Now go warsh yourself.

The US WAS founded on biblical principles.
When they said "religion" they meant Christianity.
How would laws even be formed if not for the 10 commandments?
How would you know what's right and what's wrong?

Quoted

 

[Orignal Earl]

Because that's how it is.Now go warsh yourself.

The US WAS founded on biblical principles.
When they said "religion" they meant Christianity.
How would laws even be formed if not for the 10 commandments?
How would you know what's right and what's wrong?

The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

 

[schmuckley]

This is correct. Same goes for prayer in schools -it wasn't removed, it's simply unconstitutional to do it as a whole, thereby forcing non-religious people to participate in something that they oppose.

I think it's personally offensive if I see a cross or 10 commandments hanging in a court room, but I wouldn't demand someone take them down. I'd probably bitch a little bit, because fuck them, but I'd let it go pretty quickly.

So without laws based upon the 10 commandments..What laws would there be?


It seems like you advocate worshiping objects,disrespecting your parents,murder,stealing,screwing anything that has a pulse,kenniving to
gain your neighbor's property..

..because those are all "religious" "christian" rules and laws based upon the 10
commandments.

Your misery seeps into your typing

What are you running from?

 

[Ruptga]

Ok, at first I lol'd, but schmuckley is dead serious, isn't he?

Yeap. I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering I started this thread, but damn, it is always breathtaking to meet someone so thoroughly deluded.

 

[schmuckley]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

That's a treaty between the USA and a foreign country;Not internal policy,furthermore it's 20 years after the founding.

It is "Foreign policy" and "Diplomacy".

 

[Orignal Earl]

That's a treaty between the USA and a foreign country;Not internal policy,furthermore it's 20 years after the founding.

It is "Foreign policy" and "Diplomacy".

Ahhh, I figured you might valve the opinion of your founding fathers over your preacher
Carry on

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ahhh, I figured you might valve the opinion of your founding fathers over your preacher
Carry on

Couldn't resist

 

[Vic]

Ok, at first I lol'd, but schmuckley is dead serious, isn't he?

I'd said so.

 

[schmuckley]

Ahhh, I figured you might valve the opinion of your founding fathers over your preacher
Carry on

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." -George Washington

"It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible." -George Washington

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. "-Thomas Jefferson

"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God." -Thomas Jefferson
​

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html

Did you mean value?
No,I do not value the opinions of the founding fathers over God;neither did they.It happens that our opinions are quite similar, though.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Couldn't resist

Don't resist, it's the only way I'll learn

 

[Orignal Earl]

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." -George Washington
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html

Religious principles, same ones the Muslims follow and the Jews, not exclusive to Christians

 

[Vic]

"Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." -George Washington
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/g/george_washington.html

Did you mean value?
No,I do not value the opinions of the founding fathers over God;neither did they.It happens that our opinions are quite similar, though.

You didn't say "religious principles" though, you said "How would laws even be formed if not for the 10 commandments?"

There's a difference. In fact, I'd argue that most Christians who have actually read the bible all the way through would disagree with you that the 10 commandments are the pinnacle of its moral instruction. Personally, I'd say that's the Greatest Commandment (Matthew 22:35-40).

And the Jews who actually wrote the Torah (aka Old Testament) have never had 10 commandments, they have 613 commandments.

Then there's the archeological evidence of the Code of Hammurabi showing that laws were already in existence roughly 500 years before Moses.

There were also several deists and at least one atheist among the founding fathers.

I'm even going to go into all the countries in the world that have established moral systems of law without the influence of the bible.

How do you explain all this if the 10 commandments are, as you say, the basis of all laws and morals?

 

[Vic]

I never did like Reagan, however this isn't quite how things went. What happened was that the horrors which was the mental health care system came to light, and the fact that many people were institutionalized not because of need but because it was a place we could put our "unclean" and not have to look at them. What should have happened was a systematic reform, but the Democrats just wanted to "free" them and indeed the Republicans did not want to fund. But why have those who aren't partisan participate in reforms when the all knowing parties are the source of all wisdom?

I won't argue with any of this.

 

[schmuckley]

You didn't say "religious principles" though, you said "How would laws even be formed if not for the 10 commandments?"

There's a difference. In fact, I'd argue that most Christians who have actually read the bible all the way through would disagree with you that the 10 commandments are the pinnacle of its moral instruction. Personally, I'd say that's the Greatest Commandment (Matthew 22:35-40).

And the Jews who actually wrote the Torah (aka Old Testament) have never had 10 commandments, they have 613 commandments.

Then there's the archeological evidence of the Code of Hammurabi showing that laws were already in existence roughly 500 years before Moses.

There were also several deists and at least one atheist among the founding fathers.

I'm even going to go into all the countries in the world that have established moral systems of law without the influence of the bible.

How do you explain all this if the 10 commandments are, as you say, the basis of all laws and morals?

By religious they meant Christianity.

The 10 commandments is the basis for the laws and morals in the USA.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

More than 90% were Christians.

http://www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/beliefs.html

Other countries,laws, and religions are not in the topic of the OP.
Of course there are other religions and other laws in different countries and previous civilizations.

 

[Orignal Earl]

By religious they meant Christianity.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

More than 90% were Christians.

Christians of several different denominations, who hated each other, and had their own interps of the Bible.
So they decided the best thing was separation of church and state, and that the church has no place in gov

 

[schmuckley]

Christians of several different denominations, who hated each other, and had their own interps of the Bible.
So they decided the best thing was separation of church and state, and that the church has no place in gov

They didn't any one church having power in actual government,no.

It's not "no place" it's "power over".

You know,like the Anglican church?

Take a minute and read what they said.You'll be able to tell where they were coming from.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Such as islam?

<rest of post not directed at you Geosurface>

People are tied of liberals pushing their agenda, such as nudity and foul language on tv.

Up until the late 1970 and into the 1980s families could sit in their living rooms, watch tv, and parents did not have to worry about foul language, violence or nudity. Those times are long gone.

People want a sense of morality and decency. We want to be able to go to a movie or watch tv and not have to worry about what our kids are seeing.

Since the 1980s the liberal agenda has included pushing certain undesirable traits into main stream media for our kids to see. Take teenage pregnancy for example.

Even in the late 1980s teenage pregnancy was something to be embarrassed about. Today, teenage pregnancies are idolized by having their own reality show.

If Christianity is pushed aside, what is going to fill the void for people who want a defined set of standards and morality? I suspect it will be islam.

Apparently a bit of idolizing along with a bit of useful knowledge about good contraceptive practices works better than a whole bunch of moralizing.

"Researchers believe the reality television shows, which focus on the hardships of being a young parent, directly led to an almost 6 percent reduction in teen births between 2009 and 2010."

and

"The U.S. teen birth rate has been falling in recent years. In 2010, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported women aged 15 to 19 reached an all-time low 34.3 births per 1,000 women. The numbers fell 44 percent from 1991 to 2010.

The CDC credited better use of prevention messages, increased use of contraception and increased use of two birth control methods (like condoms and birth control pills at once) for the lower rates."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/16-and-pregnant-teen-mom-series-linked-to-teen-birth-rate-drop/


As for the rest of your rant, anyone forcing you to watch what you don't like? As for what your kids watch, they're *your* kids. It's up to *you* to raise them. Don't blame the television or movie industry for *your* failures as a parent.

Isn't personal responsibility a basic conservative mantra?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Not anymore, but it was under Bush when it first really got started.

No, actually it wasn't.

"No federal law ever did ban stem cell research in the United States, but only placed restrictions on funding and use, under Congress's power to spend.[5]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_laws_and_policy_in_the_United_States

 

[Vic]

By religious they meant Christianity.

The 10 commandments is the basis for the laws and morals in the USA.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

More than 90% were Christians.

http://www.aproundtable.org/tps30info/beliefs.html

Other countries,laws, and religions are not in the topic of the OP.
Of course there are other religions and other laws in different countries and previous civilizations.

I already know that most of the founding fathers were Christians.
What you seem to not understand is why they started a revolution against their Christian king and knowingly and intentionally established a secular government.

Also, you were the one who said, "How would laws even be formed if not for the 10 commandments? How would you know what's right and what's wrong?"
So please explain how it is that laws were formed before the 10 commandments were written, and how countries that were not influenced by the bible managed to create moral systems of law.

 

[Victorian Gray]

When conservatives try to pass laws that would benefit all of society, they are demonized?

Can you provide us with an example of such an occurrence?

 

[Victorian Gray]

No, douchebag, social liberal positions come from Locke, Jefferson, Thoreau, and Mill.

Ouch!

 

[Vic]

Christians of several different denominations, who hated each other, and had their own interps of the Bible.
So they decided the best thing was separation of church and state, and that the church has no place in gov

That's one reason. The real reason IMO can be found in this quote from Jefferson:
"They (the clergy who wanted to establish a state religion) believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion. "

Why would Jefferson swear to God his opposition to a religious state?

 

[Victorian Gray]

The fact of the matter is that there are many atheist organizations (aka collectives) and many do take donations to further their cause. Churches take donations to further their cause as well...except I personally find their causes to be generally much more humanitarian. I find no relevance in regard to the amount of money collected...it's more a matter of what's done with the donations that defines the character of the organization.

Information on atheist charity organizations along with some specifically secular ones as well. You can check them out for yourself.

http://militaryatheists.org/advocacy/cfc/

http://www.weareatheism.com/resources/secular-charities/

http://techskeptic.blogspot.ca/2007/12/atheist-charities.html

http://thaumaturgical.com/a-big-list-of-atheist-charities/

 

[Orignal Earl]

Why would Jefferson swear to God his opposition to a religious state?

Because he believed in God but not a religious state?
From a quick look at his wiki under religion, he sounds like a well balanced man