Why did the democrats fall so far short of expectations this election?

[GodisanAtheist]

Well... to be quite frank, how is the Green New Deal going to be good for rural americans?

- To be fair, the "Green New Deal" is a really broad strategic statement and really doesn't get into the weeds of much of anything... and that's where the messaging statement for Dems really falls apart because it allows everyone to paint the GND as whatever the hell they want (i.e. "Dems want to take away your milkshakes and ice cream").

How about the following:

- National Clean Energy Production plan that get rural sunbelt communities into the energy generation game. Power is never going to be fully produced in large cities, its going to be produced far from those cities and piped in, which means jobs and economic activity in low pop density rural areas.

- National Clean Energy Manufacturing plan: not going to happen in high cost of labor high cost of living cities or even states, which means good for rural Americans. Unfortunately, the whole "Gov't shouldn't pick winners and losers" thing after Solindra really screwed up the national dialogue on manufacturing and essentially ceded the entire solar panel manufacturing industry to China. As a matter of national defense, the US *needs* to manufacture basic infrastructure goods and materials here.

- National Waste Capture Plan: Work with existing non-reviewable, high impact industries (Heavy Industry/Energy Production/Food Production) in leaning their process and waste generation profile, subsidized by the government while the private party gets to keep their share of the profits from such a venture.

I literally thought of that in 5 minutes after my run, and I'm sure you or anyone else can deride it for being shallow, but someone with some real chops can certainly work out a way to build those simple proposals out into real actionable goals and actually pitch them to rural voters.

 

[hal2kilo]

- To be fair, the "Green New Deal" is a really broad strategic statement and really doesn't get into the weeds of much of anything... and that's where the messaging statement for Dems really falls apart because it allows everyone to paint the GND as whatever the hell they want (i.e. "Dems want to take away your milkshakes and ice cream").

How about the following:

- National Clean Energy Production plan that get rural sunbelt communities into the energy generation game. Power is never going to be fully produced in large cities, its going to be produced far from those cities and piped in, which means jobs and economic activity in low pop density rural areas.

- National Clean Energy Manufacturing plan: not going to happen in high cost of labor high cost of living cities or even states, which means good for rural Americans. Unfortunately, the whole "Gov't shouldn't pick winners and losers" thing after Solindra really screwed up the national dialogue on manufacturing and essentially ceded the entire solar panel manufacturing industry to China. As a matter of national defense, the US *needs* to manufacture basic infrastructure goods and materials here.

- National Waste Capture Plan: Work with existing non-reviewable, high impact industries (Heavy Industry/Energy Production/Food Production) in leaning their process and waste generation profile, subsidized by the government while the private party gets to keep their share of the profits from such a venture.

I literally thought of that in 5 minutes after my run, and I'm sure you or anyone else can deride it for being shallow, but someone with some real chops can certainly work out a way to build those simple proposals out into real actionable goals and actually pitch them to rural voters.

What? we didn't put out the blueprints for the new power grid. Those damn Democrats.

 

[Jhhnn]

The better question is "why did the GOP exceed expectations?" How do they hold so many Americans in a state of delusion?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

- To be fair, the "Green New Deal" is a really broad strategic statement and really doesn't get into the weeds of much of anything... and that's where the messaging statement for Dems really falls apart because it allows everyone to paint the GND as whatever the hell they want (i.e. "Dems want to take away your milkshakes and ice cream").

How about the following:

- National Clean Energy Production plan that get rural sunbelt communities into the energy generation game. Power is never going to be fully produced in large cities, its going to be produced far from those cities and piped in, which means jobs and economic activity in low pop density rural areas.

- National Clean Energy Manufacturing plan: not going to happen in high cost of labor high cost of living cities or even states, which means good for rural Americans. Unfortunately, the whole "Gov't shouldn't pick winners and losers" thing after Solindra really screwed up the national dialogue on manufacturing and essentially ceded the entire solar panel manufacturing industry to China. As a matter of national defense, the US *needs* to manufacture basic infrastructure goods and materials here.

- National Waste Capture Plan: Work with existing non-reviewable, high impact industries (Heavy Industry/Energy Production/Food Production) in leaning their process and waste generation profile, subsidized by the government while the private party gets to keep their share of the profits from such a venture.

I literally thought of that in 5 minutes after my run, and I'm sure you or anyone else can deride it for being shallow, but someone with some real chops can certainly work out a way to build those simple proposals out into real actionable goals and actually pitch them to rural voters.

I'm not asking for marketing materials - though I agree with you it DOES need to be marketed better.

My question is simply what jobs can we "outsource" to rural areas as part of this movement?.... Again, I'm not doubting you, I'm just personally struggling to come up with why (and what) companies would have an interest with doing something in a rural area vs. an urban.

I'm just looking for general job titles of what rural people are able to handle (making sure it is within their skillset) and that it makes sense for it to be located there - especially during these outsourcing times. Because if someone says something like "manufacturing solar panels" they deserve a punch in the face if they think all the previous manufacturing is any different from "Green New Deal" manufacturing

 

[Starbuck1975]

The better question is "why did the GOP exceed expectations?" How do they hold so many Americans in a state of delusion?

Maybe if you approached this question a bit differently, you might find your answer.

 

[Jhhnn]

Maybe if you approached this question a bit differently, you might find your answer.

Trump knew his voters were delusional when he said he could shoot somebody in the middle of 5th Avenue. He was & apparently still is correct in his evaluation. They're incapable of making rational decisions, just the way Russian psyops & GOP propagandists want them to be.

 

[ondma]

I'm not asking for marketing materials - though I agree with you it DOES need to be marketed better.

My question is simply what jobs can we "outsource" to rural areas as part of this movement?.... Again, I'm not doubting you, I'm just personally struggling to come up with why (and what) companies would have an interest with doing something in a rural area vs. an urban.

I'm just looking for general job titles of what rural people are able to handle (making sure it is within their skillset) and that it makes sense for it to be located there - especially during these outsourcing times. Because if someone says something like "manufacturing solar panels" they deserve a punch in the face if they think all the previous manufacturing is any different from "Green New Deal" manufacturing

Let me ask you then, what wonderful jobs is the fossil fuel industry bringing to rural America that the GND will suddenly take away? The GND will bring solar farms, windmills (no they don't cause cancer) and a whole new infrastructure that will need to be built. Granted the GND is an idealistic plan, and may take longer to implement that hoped for, but like it or not, there is simply no choice but to move away as rapidly as possible from carbon emissions.

 

[hal2kilo]

Let me ask you then, what wonderful jobs is the fossil fuel industry bringing to rural America that the GND will suddenly take away? The GND will bring solar farms, windmills (no they don't cause cancer) and a whole new infrastructure that will need to be built. Granted the GND is an idealistic plan, and may take longer to implement that hoped for, but like it or not, there is simply no choice but to move away as rapidly as possible from carbon emissions.

Built and maintained. Maintained being a good thing.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Let me ask you then, what wonderful jobs is the fossil fuel industry bringing to rural America that the GND will suddenly take away? The GND will bring solar farms, windmills (no they don't cause cancer) and a whole new infrastructure that will need to be built. Granted the GND is an idealistic plan, and may take longer to implement that hoped for, but like it or not, there is simply no choice but to move away as rapidly as possible from carbon emissions.

Fracking brings TONS of jobs to rural areas, have you heard of midwest Texas? It's entirely based on fracking and the boom of it. It used to be hodunk town, last i remember it had tons of hotels, property values going up out the ass, good restaurants opening, etc.. etc... O&G is also a boom/bust industry though.

Nor in general am I saying fossil fuel is "bringing" jobs to rural areas. My main point was that jobs were ONCE there. Manufacturing and coal were once full-on dedicated jobs for those rural areas. They have since been outsourced or brought in to urban areas.

NOTATION: I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR FRACKING OIL/GAS. I'M SIMPLY DISCUSSING RURAL JOBS.



I asked a question - and thus far no one can answer my question. When it comes to "Green New Deal" - what jobs will come to rural areas? Again - I'm not doubting it, I simply can't think of any. Please feel free to enlighten me of jobs that haven't been there before that won't be can't/won't be outsourced.

Fracking is also not a stable job - it is constantly moving to new locations. I'm specifically talking about a 9-5 job that someone can commute to in their rural town.

 

[hal2kilo]

Fracking brings TONS of jobs to rural areas, have you heard of midwest Texas? It's entirely based on fracking and the boom of it. It used to be hodunk town, last i remember it had tons of hotels, property values going up out the ass, good restaurants opening, etc.. etc... O&G is also a boom/bust industry though.

Nor in general am I saying fossil fuel is "bringing" jobs to rural areas. My main point was that jobs were ONCE there. Manufacturing and coal were once full-on dedicated jobs for those rural areas. They have since been outsourced or brought in to urban areas.

NOTATION: I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR FRACKING OIL/GAS. I'M SIMPLY DISCUSSING RURAL JOBS.



I asked a question - and thus far no one can answer my question. When it comes to "Green New Deal" - what jobs will come to rural areas? Again - I'm not doubting it, I simply can't think of any. Please feel free to enlighten me of jobs that haven't been there before that won't be can't/won't be outsourced.

Fracking is also not a stable job - it is constantly moving to new locations. I'm specifically talking about a 9-5 job that someone can commute to in their rural town.

Love the flares at night, it so romantic.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You should talk to someone about this, help is available.

I understand you are naive. That's OK. Keep trusting Russia.

 

[MrSquished]

Fracking brings TONS of jobs to rural areas, have you heard of midwest Texas? It's entirely based on fracking and the boom of it. It used to be hodunk town, last i remember it had tons of hotels, property values going up out the ass, good restaurants opening, etc.. etc... O&G is also a boom/bust industry though.

Nor in general am I saying fossil fuel is "bringing" jobs to rural areas. My main point was that jobs were ONCE there. Manufacturing and coal were once full-on dedicated jobs for those rural areas. They have since been outsourced or brought in to urban areas.

NOTATION: I AM NOT ADVOCATING FOR FRACKING OIL/GAS. I'M SIMPLY DISCUSSING RURAL JOBS.



I asked a question - and thus far no one can answer my question. When it comes to "Green New Deal" - what jobs will come to rural areas? Again - I'm not doubting it, I simply can't think of any. Please feel free to enlighten me of jobs that haven't been there before that won't be can't/won't be outsourced.

Fracking is also not a stable job - it is constantly moving to new locations. I'm specifically talking about a 9-5 job that someone can commute to in their rural town.

The green new deal wants to bring infrastructure to rural areas like broadband. That's their first step towards any hope of getting any type of jobs brought to them.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Trump knew his voters were delusional when he said he could shoot somebody in the middle of 5th Avenue. He was & apparently still is correct in his evaluation. They're incapable of making rational decisions, just the way Russian psyops & GOP propagandists want them to be.

Trump received 71M votes and made gains with some demographics, you can’t just dismiss those numbers. Well you can, but it wouldn’t be a good idea.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The green new deal wants to bring infrastructure to rural areas like broadband. That's their first step towards any hope of getting any type of jobs brought to them.

Love the flares at night, it so romantic.

Got it - so nothing.

You have no jobs that you can anticipate for rural areas.

I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...

 

[MrSquished]

Got it - so nothing.

You have no jobs that you can anticipate for rural areas.

I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...

The world runs on this thing called the internet. Without that who is going to bring jobs and online training/education to them?

 

[Jhhnn]

Trump received 71M votes and made gains with some demographics, you can’t just dismiss those numbers. Well you can, but it wouldn’t be a good idea.

I didn't dismiss them. I said they're detached from reality, some more than others. Their reasons are merely rationalizations. Or will you argue to the contrary?

 

[Jhhnn]

Got it - so nothing.

You have no jobs that you can anticipate for rural areas.

I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you...

Neither do the job creators, obviously. Not enough profit potential. Maximum shareholder value is all that matters. If we want more out of them, we'll have to take it as taxes & create our own jobs.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The world runs on this thing called the internet. Without that who is going to bring jobs and online training/education to them?

Riiiiiiight. So the internet....

That's all the world needs to bring jobs to random rural areas and they are good to go...got it....

You can clearly solve all of life's economical problems...

//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5fa9f7fdcde41/AlertFlawlessJunebug-mobile.mp4

 

[MrSquished]

Riiiiiiight. So the internet....

That's all the world needs to bring jobs to random rural areas and they are good to go...got it....

You can clearly solve all of life's economical problems...

//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5fa9f7fdcde41/AlertFlawlessJunebug-mobile.mp4

It's like these things called roads. Nobody is bringing goods somewhere without roads. Public and private interests could then think of ways to incentive job growth there perhaps with tax incentives or other partnerships. Call center type jobs done remote, etc.. That's their only shot. But without the tubes to the internet, nothing is happening.

But these independent anti government red blooded Americans wouldn't stand for that kind of socialism, like they said no to rural electricity, interstate highways, more expensive public education and medical infrastructure.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I didn't dismiss them. I said they're detached from reality, some more than others. Their reasons are merely rationalizations. Or will you argue to the contrary?

They’re detached from your reality perhaps, the closeness of the election, down ballot outcomes and even surprising outcomes of many ballot initiatives speak for themselves.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Fracking brings TONS of jobs to rural areas, have you heard of midwest Texas? It's entirely based on fracking and the boom of it. It used to be hodunk town, last i remember it had tons of hotels, property values going up out the ass, good restaurants opening, etc.. etc... O&G is also a boom/bust industry though.

Out of curiosity what is a ton. How many jobs are we talking here?

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

data.bls.gov

 

[Jhhnn]

They’re detached from your reality perhaps, the closeness of the election, down ballot outcomes and even surprising outcomes of many ballot initiatives speak for themselves.

That merely reinforces what I offered. Believing in Trump is deeply irrational. He conned them all.

 

[Zorba]

(3) I like how Republicans put things in simple terms, build wall, socialist, elitists, death panel, obamacare etc. words that are simple and effective to convey the message that evokes feeling. Democrats need to learn that.

You are talking with average people not someone with PhD in English lit. And in campaigning you need simplistic emotion. I'd say Democrats should hire some Republican campaign managers and learn from them.

It is much easier to use simple terms when slinging bullshit. "Big beautiful healthcare" is a hell of a lot easy to say that to actually explain ACA. However, ACA exists and Big Beautiful Healthcare never did. Real solutions to real problems are more complicated than 2 word statements.

(4) I know Democrats have all these plan to save the planet, to do international trade etc. But you need to understand the consequence of those actions and how it affects the lives of rural communities. If you want to move in that direction, you need to pace it and make sure new jobs are waiting for people when the old ones disapear, otherwise you are incrediblly irreponsible and cruel.

Lots of small towns in Oklahoma have been saved by wind power.

Dems have always supported farm aid, rural healthcare, rural education, and many of the environmental projects would bring money to rural areas. Yet rural folks don't care, and keep voting for the people vote against their interests, because they care more about abortion than themselves.

 

[brycejones]

Riiiiiiight. So the internet....

That's all the world needs to bring jobs to random rural areas and they are good to go...got it....

You can clearly solve all of life's economical problems...

//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5fa9f7fdcde41/AlertFlawlessJunebug-mobile.mp4

Stop being a dishonest drama queen. Delivering modern telecommunications is a critical part of enabling improved economic opportunities in rural areas. Does it solve every problem? Nope. Does it provide the people who live in those areas more tools to make their lives better? Yes. You sound like some asshole who would have argued against rural electrification back in the 20s and 30s.

To be honest we don't know what rural people could do with modern infrastructure in place. Give them more tools and lets see what they can do with it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Stop being a dishonest drama queen. Delivering modern telecommunications is a critical part of enabling improved economic opportunities in rural areas. Does it solve every problem? Nope. Does it provide the people who live in those areas more tools to make their lives better? Yes. You sound like some asshole who would have argued against rural electrification back in the 20s and 30s.

To be honest we don't know what rural people could do with modern infrastructure in place. Give them more tools and lets see what they can do with it.

They're idiots about it, anyway. Screaming for smaller gubmint is cutting their own throats in a lot of places-

States with the most government workers

Wyoming employed the largest share of state and local government workers in the country, at 22.4% of its workforce.

www.usatoday.com